Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

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bodhiye
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Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by bodhiye »

There's a strong desire for physical pleasure and companionship but I want to restrain my mind. How to practice voluntary celibacy as a layperson? Are there sadhanas (sutric or exoteric ones) or techniques that can help me to reduce lust swiftly?
Inedible
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by Inedible »

It sounds like the problem is that celibacy is what you think you should want, rather than what you actually do. I seem to recall that the Medicine Buddha is the one to ask for help if you are determined.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

bodhiye wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:35 am There's a strong desire for physical pleasure and companionship but I want to restrain my mind. How to practice voluntary celibacy as a layperson? Are there sadhanas (sutric or exoteric ones) or techniques that can help me to reduce lust swiftly?
The way to practice celibacy is,
Don’t have sex.
EMPTIFUL.
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Queequeg
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by Queequeg »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:45 pm
bodhiye wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:35 am There's a strong desire for physical pleasure and companionship but I want to restrain my mind. How to practice voluntary celibacy as a layperson? Are there sadhanas (sutric or exoteric ones) or techniques that can help me to reduce lust swiftly?
The way to practice celibacy is,
Don’t have sex.
LOL

I think the fella is asking how to curb lust.

Bodhiye - you're biologically wired to want sex. Short of doing something to your endocrine system to disrupt the hormones that underlie this impulse, all the practices can do is sublimate that energy into other stuff. Get ready for some really intense "other stuff," though. Without a proper infrastructure and supportive community around you, there's a good chance you'll go a little crazy for a while until the hormones wear off in late middle age. There's a reason people who do this kind of stuff join special communities. Too bad there are no more Shakers around.

Good luck! Stay away from me, thank you. Don't need that energy around. :)
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

The Buddha taught to avoid extremes.
If you can practice celibacy 23 hours out of 24 each day, that’s probably good enough, don’t you think?
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by pemachophel »

We live in the Kamaloka, the Desire Realm where desire is our major preoccupation. So I think the idea of getting rid of desire quickly or easily is unrealistic. If one is a Vajrayanist, we don't even want to get rid of desire. In any case, since desire is so deeply ingrained in us, this is a question best taken up with your Teacher. If you don't have a Teacher, maybe better to first concentrate on finding a Teacher. Then you Teacher can help you deal with desire in the most appropriate way for you.
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tingdzin
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by tingdzin »

How old are you? What tradition, if any, do you follow? Simple tips include: avoiding erotic entertainments and intoxicants, and not sleeping too much. Some people say diet can help. One has to watch one's mind carefully, as all Buddhists should, but don't let your quest become an obsession or distort your behavior; the mind can play all sorts of tricks on someone who is trying to overcome strong instincts or habits. John Blofeld recommended a gradual abandonment rather than just trying to give it up in one go. Take heart in the fact that almost no one finds it easy. Do NOT attempt to kill these energies by drugging them away.
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by TannersHatch »

bodhiye wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:35 am There's a strong desire for physical pleasure and companionship but I want to restrain my mind. How to practice voluntary celibacy as a layperson? Are there sadhanas (sutric or exoteric ones) or techniques that can help me to reduce lust swiftly?
Hello

I'm a layperson and long term celibate. Very happily so although the road was a long one. For me it had a good result.

For myself it wasn't about obtaining an extreme. It came about before my practice began due in part to my partner, having had 2 kids very close together experiencing a lowered labido.

This upset me. I felt rejected and had to come to terms with this. I had an unhealthy relationship with sex and it preoccupied my mind a lot.
I had two options the way I saw it, be unfaithful (not my inclination), or kill my own sex drive. The frustration was making me very unhappy. I examined the role of sex in my life, how much it imposed itself on my thoughts and feelings. The pain it had caused and continued to cause me and my partner. My sex life consisted of about 2% sex and 98% of the time wanting it, craving it, being confused and worried about sexual relationships etc. It wasn't worth it for me. The 2% I got I only enjoyed 50% of the time anyway. Sex for me got dull once single life ran its course.

For others who have a healthy relationship with sex, great! These folks are better than I. For me the drawbacks outweighed the benefits. For the record this impulse has still not completely fallen away from me but is greatly reduced, and far far easier to ignore passing away swiftly and without struggle most of the time.

So how to do it? Well without going into too much detail, and no one can tell you the way which suits your mental inclinations but for me...
Once I stopped blaming my partner and had resolutely decided to go celibate it was a long road of 3 yrs (I only claim to have been celibate for 2 years as year 1 was all over the place). I had no Buddhist or meditation in my life but started looking upon the sexual impulse as a disease. When the impulse occurred I felt like a little demon with an erection was pushing me into acts in didn't wish to be part of. I felt annoyed with myself. Cultivating a deep aversion to sexual impulse is similar to the aversion to cyclical existence we cultivate as a Buddhist. Although remember I cannot say if this was 'right' or even healthy. It was just how I personally dealt with it. When the impulse occurred I wouldn't remain ''hands off'' but would not allow sexual thoughts to intrude when the impulse occurred and it would therefore subside quickly. Eventually, as in when we learn to meditate the impulse comes less and less and is easier and quicker to subside.

I hope this helps mate. If celibacy is for you then I'm sure you'll get there and find it a rewarding experience.
Last edited by TannersHatch on Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Laypeople are not required to be celebate.

What is your motivation for celibacy, out of curiosity?

If you feel afflicted by excess lust, there are certainly practices for reducing it, and good reasons for doing so.

But seeing as you are a layperson, rather than killing your sexuality altogether, you might consider trying to negotiate a relative truce with your libido based on compromise and moderation.

Or not. Ultimately it's your choice of course.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

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nyonchung
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by nyonchung »

pemachophel wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:41 pm We live in the Kamaloka, the Desire Realm where desire is our major preoccupation. So I think the idea of getting rid of desire quickly or easily is unrealistic. If one is a Vajrayanist, we don't even want to get rid of desire. In any case, since desire is so deeply ingrained in us, this is a question best taken up with your Teacher. If you don't have a Teacher, maybe better to first concentrate on finding a Teacher. Then you Teacher can help you deal with desire in the most appropriate way for you.
this use of "desire" just about sexual desire is possibly misleading. As for Vajrayana, Guru Rinpoché was not so enthusiast about people led by lust, if I remember well.

Desire by itself, used to say the late Kalu Rinpoché, is probably not the worst of the kleshas, but it leeds neccesarily to them, attachement, fear, jealousy etc ...

Before entering Vajrayana vows, we have anyway to go through personal liberation vows and bodhisattva vows - and definitely given by a teacher. BTW, I guess that by "celibacy", chastity is meant (Catholics make the difference). As was usual practice in kagyüpa centers (in Europe) in the 80's, start by request formally the 5 layperson vow (yongdzog genyen) , start to deal with desire (in a very Hinayana way, this body as ugly, defiling etc...), death, impermanence (as the four common preliminary practices), confession practices, purification practices (as per teacher's instructions) keep an eye on your emotions (and this is an excellent preparation for Vajrayana)

Well, and there is the blessing of the Buddhas.

You also, and possibly mostly, have to organize your life accordingly (and people might find it strange, for sure), and after reasonable time and signs of stability, you can consider taking chastity vows, first for a fixed period of time.
Loneliness can be heavy, and couple or family life may at times possibly more comfortable (for all the problems attached).

As for Teacher, not necessary your root lama (if you have one, ask the question, but he maybe too busy for the details) , but a "spiritual friend" (gewa'i shenyen) will do - an experimented, compassionate and teacher, an "elder". Again, these are personnal liberation vows, on the Hinayana level.
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by anagarika »

I´d say there are three inputs which can´t really lead to any other output than spontenaous brahmacarya. For me those were:

1) Samvega - having had enough, having known both the ecstasies and the hell of sexual experience. This is a mind naturally inclining towards renunciation - it´s not supressing anything, it´s getting lighter, relieved of a very heavy burden. This can´t really be forced, I´m afraid. But the feeling for me was like stepping out of a jail or letting go of a burning iron ball.

2) Samma dithi - right view, right understanding - seeing the flaws in sexuality for yourself, not being prompted by another. Right understanding can be assisted by study and many other things, but it´s again a kind of spontaneous ripening in due time.

3) Consistent meditation routine - You are still going to be driven by hedonistic values to a large degree, but you want something wholesome. This is the purpose of samadhi - to provide a truly blameless pleasure. You need something to sustain you, but it must be something not dependent on the senses. When you cultivate your mind, it will incline naturally towards this state.

That being said, there are of course levels to this. Complete eradication of sexual impulses (i.e. the desire doesn´t arise even under direct provocation) is extremely advanced. However, achieving a state where sexual urges become virtually non-existent for the absolute majority of your day is definitely feasible for a reasonably skilled meditator. The key part is not falling into the trap of aversion either towards yourself or towards others - if annoying thoughts arise, just avert your attention and don´t make a drama around it. Many people will advise you against practicing celibacy as a lay person, but from my experience it is a realistic and deeply rewarding goal which is worth pursuing. Even if you ultimately fail, you may learn valuable lessons along the way.
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by Soma999 »

Sexuality is biological, and as such, neither good or bad. It is just a natural fonction.

Sexual psychism, and how you approach this biological fonction is what makes it good or bad.

There is no definite answer, as what is good for someone can be bad for someone else. That is why from my pov, giving the same advice to each and everyone is not reasonable.

A problem with sexuality is that, often, energy is used only for pleasure and does not reach the brain. But if the sexual act is long enough, energy will have the time to flow into the body and feed the brain.

Brain and sexual organs are at two opposite side. If energy flow in your body and feed the brain, you will not only be in better mood, but also with inspiration, and it can even generate higher states of consciousness.

If you hold also wisdom thought during intercourse, it will change the flow and quality of energy. Unites bliss with wisdom.

When people practice celibacy, this is the same : energy has to move into the body, it will make you alive.

There is a major difference between sublimation and restrictions.

If you just restrict sexual activity but don’t sublimate, allow the energy to rise and flow, you will just torment yourself.

If it is just inhibited, it is not so beneficial, except of course if that prevents you from unwise situation, but that is another subject.

The question is really about energy conducing.

I would give you some references that may help you, but i am afraid they are not buddhist enough to survive moderation. But if you search you will easily find there are many information which may benefits you.
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by seeker242 »

Practicing celibacy as a layperson?
Do meditation, LOTS of it, like multiple hours per day. Once you have the bliss of samadhi, then not very hard to dismiss lust. When you have a pleasure that is greater than sex, etc. not very hard to let go of that lesser pleasure, since it's been replaced by something better anyway.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
bodhiye
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by bodhiye »

Thanks to everyone for replying and the advice. I was having hectic work and couldn't reply earlier, sorry.

I'm in my twenties. I do not intend to become a monk. I'll practice voluntary celibacy(maybe till I can find a good life partner). My goal is to reduce intensive lust which is troubling me.

Some of my family members are old and have comorbidities, so I have been at home for most of the time since this pandemic began. I had free time at hand and was feeling very lonely. I ended up seeing many movies and shows. And then I fell into the rabbit hole of online erotic stuff. I spent way too much time watching such sensual entertainment, which seems to have amplified my desires.

There are no temples or teachers where I live. I don't know how to meditate systematically and attain Samadhi. I read the Sutras and chant daily. I'm a little more disciplined than before but this one thing has become unmanageable. All that careless consumption has made me excessively lustful now. Something seems to have gone awry within and I'm afraid I damaged my mind. I sincerely want to undo this mess.

(I keep the 5th precept. I eat meat infrequently (few times in a month) and my diet for the most part is veggie.)
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by climb-up »

You might want to check out Dr Nida’s karmamudra book. It includes meditations that are open to anyone (not actual karmamidra, or the text in the appendix, which are educational but not for practice, but a preliminary meditation that works with the energies of desire ) and even related an interaction he had with a nun who mistook her sexual desires for demonic possession and to whom he recommended this meditation.
The whole book is really good, with a lot of important information about vajrayana in general, not just se Hal practices.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

bodhiye wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:10 pm Thanks to everyone for replying and the advice. I was having hectic work and couldn't reply earlier, sorry.

I'm in my twenties. I do not intend to become a monk. I'll practice voluntary celibacy(maybe till I can find a good life partner). My goal is to reduce intensive lust which is troubling me.

Some of my family members are old and have comorbidities, so I have been at home for most of the time since this pandemic began. I had free time at hand and was feeling very lonely. I ended up seeing many movies and shows. And then I fell into the rabbit hole of online erotic stuff. I spent way too much time watching such sensual entertainment, which seems to have amplified my desires.

There are no temples or teachers where I live. I don't know how to meditate systematically and attain Samadhi. I read the Sutras and chant daily. I'm a little more disciplined than before but this one thing has become unmanageable. All that careless consumption has made me excessively lustful now. Something seems to have gone awry within and I'm afraid I damaged my mind. I sincerely want to undo this mess.

(I keep the 5th precept. I eat meat infrequently (few times in a month) and my diet for the most part is veggie.)
You need to interrupt the pattern. When you find yourself slipping into the habit, get out of bed. Get out of the room. Splash some water on your face. Something to interrupt the flow of emotion.

Leave your house and go for a walk.

Cold turkey can always be rough on the system, whatever your craving. Meditation will lessen the sexual energy... transmute it into love, peace and wisdom.

You are right about eating vegetarian. It's a practice that lessens our desire.

Celibacy can too... but we have to choose to be celibate.

And soon enough, the desire for women will be no more.

Celibacy is a powerful practice. It needs to be done with meditation, which helps to process the emotion....
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

We should also understand the causes and conditions of what makes us desire things. When we are in an environment that is conducive to desire, then desires will arise. Simple as that.

We don't have to get mad at or feel any feelings toward the conditions. They're just conditions. :anjali:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

If lay persons were meant to practice celibacy, they wouldn’t be called “lay” persons.
EMPTIFUL.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:08 am If lay persons were meant to practice celibacy, they wouldn’t be called “lay” persons.
One doesn't need robes to practice celibacy. Nor does one have to live in a monastery.

*

Some people might even make a vow to live a celibate life without becoming a monastic. I've met some people like this - they were very pure. There's a lot of merit that comes from living this sort of life.
bodhiye
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Re: Practicing celibacy as a layperson?

Post by bodhiye »

climb-up wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:00 am You might want to check out Dr Nida’s karmamudra book. It includes meditations that are open to anyone (not actual karmamidra, or the text in the appendix, which are educational but not for practice, but a preliminary meditation that works with the energies of desire ) and even related an interaction he had with a nun who mistook her sexual desires for demonic possession and to whom he recommended this meditation.
The whole book is really good, with a lot of important information about vajrayana in general, not just se Hal practices.
I'll check Dr Nida's book. Thank you!
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