Question about grasping

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Rick
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Question about grasping

Post by Rick »

Noble Truth Two says craving (tanha) is the root cause of suffering (dukkha).

What is the root cause of craving?
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Rick
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Re: Question about grasping

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Rick wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:03 pm What is the root cause of craving?
I would have thought it was ignorance of the nature of reality (avidya) of the self and world. If so, why didn't the Buddha say the root cause of suffering is ignorance?

Or, does understanding the nature of reality (vidya) lessen but not end grasping? Perhaps faint grasping continues even in enlighteneds, until paranirvana at death? One might say that the body of an enlightened still grasps at food, air, warmth, perhaps the mind continues to grasp on some instinctual level at pleasure and show aversion to pain ... in which case grasping would be more fundamental than understanding, which would explain why Noble Truth 2 is tanha and not avidya.
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Malcolm
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Re: Question about grasping

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Rick wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:03 pm Noble Truth Two says craving (tanha) is the root cause of suffering (dukkha).

What is the root cause of craving?
The ignorance that imagines there is a self.
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Rick
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Re: Question about grasping

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:16 pm The ignorance that imagines there is a self.
Given this, why do you think the Buddha formulated Truth 2 as grasping rather than ignorance, or belief in a self? Is 'grasping' easier to grasp?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Question about grasping

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Because the FNT are more diagnostic than philosophical, I think.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Malcolm
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Re: Question about grasping

Post by Malcolm »

Rick wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:16 pm The ignorance that imagines there is a self.
Given this, why do you think the Buddha formulated Truth 2 as grasping rather than ignorance, or belief in a self? Is 'grasping' easier to grasp?
Craving does not involve speculation.
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Rick
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Re: Question about grasping

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:36 pm Craving does not involve speculation.
Craving is more direct, urgent, concrete, and there is universal agreement as to what it is, all humans know it first-hand, feel it. Both ignorance and belief in self are more abstract, indirect, and there is lots of disagreement about their origin, essence. So the decision to formulate Truth Two as craving was skillful, pedagogical, craving is a clearer and more direct descriptor than ignorance or belief in self.

?
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Malcolm
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Re: Question about grasping

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Rick wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:11 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:36 pm Craving does not involve speculation.
Craving is more direct, urgent, concrete, and there is universal agreement as to what it is, all humans know it first-hand, feel it. Both ignorance and belief in self are more abstract, indirect, and there is lots of disagreement about their origin, essence. So the decision to formulate Truth Two as craving was skillful, pedagogical, craving is a clearer and more direct descriptor than ignorance or belief in self.

?
Correct.
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Rick
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Re: Question about grasping

Post by Rick »

Makes sense, well done Buddha, and merci Malcolm.
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