Joie de ... ?

[Johnny Dangerous]

I mean, we cultivate positive states, compassion, empathetic joy, etc. Outside of those it depends, renunciate vehicles obviously don’t focus much on day to day joy. Other approaches say it’s fine to enjoy, knowing the enjoyment is temporary. I think the thing is not take refuge in mundane joy, not that we shouldn’t have it.

[Rick]

What does it mean to take refuge in mundane joy?

[Rick]

I think the thing is not take refuge in mundane joy, not that we shouldn’t have it.

In other words, worldly joys and pleasures, as joyful and pleasurable as they may be, are *not* an effective shelter/protection from dukkha.

?

[Kim O'Hara]

I think the thing is not take refuge in mundane joy, not that we shouldn’t have it.

In other words, worldly joys and pleasures, as joyful and pleasurable as they may be, are *not* an effective shelter/protection from dukkha.

?

Another concept to be explored in relation to this is escapism. I think Halloween horror movies count as escapism.


Kim

[Rick]

Mea culpa! As my Aunt Jeanne used to say: "I'm not very good at reality." (Neither is my species, from all indications.)

[PadmaVonSamba]

I think the thing is not take refuge in mundane joy, not that we shouldn’t have it.

In other words, worldly joys and pleasures, as joyful and pleasurable as they may be, are *not* an effective shelter/protection from dukkha.

?

Correct.
But what makes something pleasurable isn’t something inherent in the object. The source of joy comes from your own mind.
Dukkha refers to (among other things) the suffering of conditionality, as well as constant dissatisfaction.
Even when we are enjoying something pleasurable, we eventually grow tired of doing it.

[明安 Myoan]

What does it mean to take refuge in mundane joy?

For example, the Eight Worldly Preoccupations/Concerns:

hope for happiness and fear of suffering,
hope for fame and fear of insignificance,
hope for praise and fear of blame,
hope for gain and fear of loss;

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

What does it mean to take refuge in mundane joy?

To believe it will give lasting fulfillment and satisfaction. Like believing getting married will solve all your problems.

[Kim O'Hara]

I think the thing is not take refuge in mundane joy, not that we shouldn’t have it.

In other words, worldly joys and pleasures, as joyful and pleasurable as they may be, are *not* an effective shelter/protection from dukkha.

?

Correct.
But what makes something pleasurable isn’t something inherent in the object. The source of joy comes from your own mind.
Dukkha refers to (among other things) the suffering of conditionality, as well as constant dissatisfaction.
Even when we are enjoying something pleasurable, we eventually grow tired of doing it.

If we wanted to, we could see an evolutionary imperative behind this: something nasty could kill us so we are hard-wired to pay more attention to it and remember it for longer than we might remember something that is merely pleasurable.


Kim

[White Lotus]

The quality of the first Bodhisattva bhumi is joy. When suffering has ceased there is joy in the relief of freedom from suffering. Happiness. It’s amazing how many paths in this life result in joy. The main factor beneath escape from suffering is extinction of the self experience. Some people would call this dying to self. Deep breath with focus on the personal feeling of self or other quickly burns away self feelings. To become aware of this you will need to have developed the feeling eye of prajna wisdom. Best wishes, Tom.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Would one consider it joyful to flee a burning house? That’s how Buddhism regards samsaric existences.

[White Lotus]

The time comes when the burning house itself becomes a delightful refuge.

[PadmaVonSamba]

The time comes when the burning house itself becomes a delightful refuge.

And at what time is that?

[Ayu]

The time comes when the burning house itself becomes a delightful refuge.

And at what time is that?

Any day now, any day now...