Can't control thoughts

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yinyangkoi
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Can't control thoughts

Post by yinyangkoi »

Hello, in specific conditions specific thoughts arise. Sometimes those are negative thoughts. Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma). Then I react to the idea that it caused bad karma with anxiety. How should I reprogram this thought process? How can you change it if I can't control the thoughts? Does it really cause bad karma if I have no control over it? Since it's not me doing it?
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Learn to observe them nakedly, without judgement. You are just creating more of the same by trying to fight them.

In modern psychological terms this is called ‘cognitive delusion’ - not identifying with your thoughts.

When the anxiety is low enough, you can also apply antidotes, loving kindness instead of anger, etc.


With emotional states you can even change the way you use language to think about them ‘I feel anger right now’ instead of ‘I am angry’.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Giovanni »

It might be good to reflect on karma? Karma is created by intention. Our “ monkey minds” dashing all over the place might cause us anxiety and a feeling of restlessness, and certainly make it harder to relax into meditative states, but in themselves they don’t create karma..they are too scattered even for that! So that is one worry to put aside.🙂
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Inedible »

This is evidence that your thoughts are not you, not lasting, and not satisfying. The three marks.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Ayu »

yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am .. Does it really cause bad karma if I have no control over it? Since it's not me doing it?
I believe, if you manage not to identify with your thoughts, they can't cause too much harm. Everybody suffers from bad thoughts and I think it is rather a progress to detect them at all. In most people's minds those thoughts run freely without any control.

And it's very important to know that karma is no fix state. There are positive actions existing as well and they can change the whole thing
.
Therefore a good strategy is to focus on the good thoughts, actions and speech. This can possibly mend everything completely.
To focus is not the same as total control. There may be complete idiotic sentences running through my mind, but I just let them pass, I don't think it's me and I don't beat me up for it.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Jesse »

yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Hello, in specific conditions specific thoughts arise. Sometimes those are negative thoughts. Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma). Then I react to the idea that it caused bad karma with anxiety. How should I reprogram this thought process? How can you change it if I can't control the thoughts? Does it really cause bad karma if I have no control over it? Since it's not me doing it?
This is something similar to what you see in OCD. Anxiety responses cause the brain to go haywire especially when it's in response to your own thoughts. Suddenly the part of your brain that recognizes threats to yourself begins responding to your own thoughts, perceiving them as bad/harmful, etc.

As others have said; this insinuates a degree of increased awareness over your thought process; likely from meditation experience, but when this increased awareness is approached in the wrong ways will lead to alot of suffering. Mindfulness meditation is a way of perceiving your thoughts without judgement, by practicing it you slowly gain the ability to let thoughts flow through without causing all of those secondary reactions. They just arise, then disappear. Watching this process slowly over time through repeatedly meditating should lead to the insight that our thoughts are a completely autonomous process (Like falling dominoes); they aren't who we are. So does it cause karma? Sort of.. but not in the way you think.

By continuing to approach the anxiety/pain response by attempting to change the thought process itself you are creating karma, it will have the opposite effect you intend, as this is very similar to aversion; As everyone else said; you have to learn to perceive your thoughts non-judgmentally, and when you can't do this; you have to try to remember that reality -- the method for doing this is similar to your meditation object. Treat the thought processes similarly to how you would random thoughts during meditation. When the thought process starts, realize it's lack of reality; return to your breath/mantra/etc until the thoughts/emotions pass.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Hazel »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
Using the above as a launchpad....

Recognize your thoughts, change your actions.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by FiveSkandhas »

A great antidote to "bad thoughts" (and a spiral of fear/shame about them, followed by more bad thoughts) I use sometimes: imagine you are in the presence of the Buddha or Bodhisattva of your choice. A vast, vigorous field of of pure golden light is emitted from this being and expands in all directions.

You are completely engulfed in the light; it drowns out all your thoughts and washes you utterly clean, with the forcefulness of a dam breaking and releasing an all-encompassing torrent. The light is so brilliant and penetrating that all other thoughts and perceptions are simply and utterly overcome and vanquished.

It feels like a brain reset for me. The cycle of harmful thoughts is simply too puny to persist in this majestic rolling tidal wave of light.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by yinyangkoi »

Jesse wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:05 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Hello, in specific conditions specific thoughts arise. Sometimes those are negative thoughts. Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma). Then I react to the idea that it caused bad karma with anxiety. How should I reprogram this thought process? How can you change it if I can't control the thoughts? Does it really cause bad karma if I have no control over it? Since it's not me doing it?
This is something similar to what you see in OCD. Anxiety responses cause the brain to go haywire especially when it's in response to your own thoughts. Suddenly the part of your brain that recognizes threats to yourself begins responding to your own thoughts, perceiving them as bad/harmful, etc.

As others have said; this insinuates a degree of increased awareness over your thought process; likely from meditation experience, but when this increased awareness is approached in the wrong ways will lead to alot of suffering. Mindfulness meditation is a way of perceiving your thoughts without judgement, by practicing it you slowly gain the ability to let thoughts flow through without causing all of those secondary reactions. They just arise, then disappear. Watching this process slowly over time through repeatedly meditating should lead to the insight that our thoughts are a completely autonomous process (Like falling dominoes); they aren't who we are. So does it cause karma? Sort of.. but not in the way you think.

By continuing to approach the anxiety/pain response by attempting to change the thought process itself you are creating karma, it will have the opposite effect you intend, as this is very similar to aversion; As everyone else said; you have to learn to perceive your thoughts non-judgmentally, and when you can't do this; you have to try to remember that reality -- the method for doing this is similar to your meditation object. Treat the thought processes similarly to how you would random thoughts during meditation. When the thought process starts, realize it's lack of reality; return to your breath/mantra/etc until the thoughts/emotions pass.
Actually I have been diagnosed with OCD and since I take medicine it is better, but the mental processes are still there. And I can't just return to the breath during meditation, it causes the anxiety to manifest as tension in my gut and it's very painful and I have chronic inflammation because of it. The only thing that works is to give the thoughts non judgemental attention until they pass, which is hard because OCD thoughts are very unsettling.

Question: Is taking medicine skillful or unskillful? If I don't take it, from the point consciousness arises until sleep I am drowned in those thoughts, anxiety, desire for non becoming, every moment there is a feeling of deep desperation. Using meditation I have learned not to identify with it, but it's very hard not to slip. The anxiety causes wakefulness which is helpful. But on the other hand, if I can attain nirvana I should be unbothered by it right? But on the other hand it is very hard to function as a human being without the medicine.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

You might want to look into Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and also take a look at this site and it's advice on anxious and obsessive thinking, and spend some time working on Somatic practices like Box Breathing for anxiety:

https://drmartinseif.com/self-help/

That is not to discourage meditative practice by any means, but if your obsessive thinking is at a point that you cannot meditate - and it sounds like it is you probably need to address that directly, with specialized practices.

The seminal book for ACT is called Get of Your Mind Get Into Your Life.

That's of course no substitute for professional help, so if you want vet these sources with your therapist, counselor, or whoever. BTW, I've had severe OCD and anxiety myself for my whole life, and this advice comes from both personal experience and recommendations I've gotten from Buddhist therapists I have worked with. I have been able to live with these conditions much better than I ever expected following their advice, and most people don't know I have them without me self- disclosing it.

Medication is a personal decision and should be taken up with whoever you are working with. That said, I haven't seen any good Buddhist arguments (just a few bad ones) that taking medications is unskillful, there is some debate about how useful some of them are, but that is a clinical debate, if you trust your provider you should follow their reasoning and discuss these things with them.

For me, the first thing is get out of fight or flight mode, then once the anxiety is down to a 3 (out of 10), I am capable of practicing something like Lojong or simply letting thoughts arise and dissolve in their own place.

Generally speaking I have to get my symptoms down to a certain level before a problem like this can benefits from meditation. Enough anxiety actually alters our perceptions and us into "fight or flight" mode. It's difficult to utilize cognitive or meditative strategies in that mode.

Box breathing - which is actually a Yogic technique- is really worth learning in my experience, calming down the nervous system carries with it an automatic stilling of the mind, but it does take a little practices.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Jesse »

yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:42 pm
Jesse wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:05 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Hello, in specific conditions specific thoughts arise. Sometimes those are negative thoughts. Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma). Then I react to the idea that it caused bad karma with anxiety. How should I reprogram this thought process? How can you change it if I can't control the thoughts? Does it really cause bad karma if I have no control over it? Since it's not me doing it?
This is something similar to what you see in OCD. Anxiety responses cause the brain to go haywire especially when it's in response to your own thoughts. Suddenly the part of your brain that recognizes threats to yourself begins responding to your own thoughts, perceiving them as bad/harmful, etc.

As others have said; this insinuates a degree of increased awareness over your thought process; likely from meditation experience, but when this increased awareness is approached in the wrong ways will lead to alot of suffering. Mindfulness meditation is a way of perceiving your thoughts without judgement, by practicing it you slowly gain the ability to let thoughts flow through without causing all of those secondary reactions. They just arise, then disappear. Watching this process slowly over time through repeatedly meditating should lead to the insight that our thoughts are a completely autonomous process (Like falling dominoes); they aren't who we are. So does it cause karma? Sort of.. but not in the way you think.

By continuing to approach the anxiety/pain response by attempting to change the thought process itself you are creating karma, it will have the opposite effect you intend, as this is very similar to aversion; As everyone else said; you have to learn to perceive your thoughts non-judgmentally, and when you can't do this; you have to try to remember that reality -- the method for doing this is similar to your meditation object. Treat the thought processes similarly to how you would random thoughts during meditation. When the thought process starts, realize it's lack of reality; return to your breath/mantra/etc until the thoughts/emotions pass.
Actually I have been diagnosed with OCD and since I take medicine it is better, but the mental processes are still there. And I can't just return to the breath during meditation, it causes the anxiety to manifest as tension in my gut and it's very painful and I have chronic inflammation because of it. The only thing that works is to give the thoughts non judgemental attention until they pass, which is hard because OCD thoughts are very unsettling.

Question: Is taking medicine skillful or unskillful? If I don't take it, from the point consciousness arises until sleep I am drowned in those thoughts, anxiety, desire for non becoming, every moment there is a feeling of deep desperation. Using meditation I have learned not to identify with it, but it's very hard not to slip. The anxiety causes wakefulness which is helpful. But on the other hand, if I can attain nirvana I should be unbothered by it right? But on the other hand it is very hard to function as a human being without the medicine.
Medicine sometimes becomes a requirement. Sometimes the brain just does not work the way it's supposed to. However, it also depends on the kinds of medications; some are more harmful than others. Avoid the narcotic classes all-together. Otherwise though they tend to be helpful, as long as you realize they are a symptom reducer, and not a cure.

If I understand you right, focusing on the breath causes you to panic, this happens to me also and so I use mantras for my object. Becoming aware of any of the autonomous nervous functions tends to cause anxiety in people with anxiety disorders. (Heart beating, breathing, etc).

Using a mantra,(or any other object) is just kind of a way to power through to that non-judgmental awareness.
Using meditation I have learned not to identify with it, but it's very hard not to slip.
Yep, it's painful as hell. But yes there is definitely relief using non-judging awareness. It takes a while to get it right, and to remember it, but once you do all of those pains go bye bye, at least for as long as you can maintain it.

The thoughts do not stop entirely, that is why non-judgement is so important. The thoughts themselves do not need to be gotten rid of (directly anyhow), so by using non-discriminating awareness- you actually no longer feed the 'mental seeds', so the tendencies for the thought to arise will evaporate over time.

Reading some on alaya-vijnana could be helpful in regards to this.

https://www.learnreligions.com/alaya-vi ... ess-449659

Since OCD is like monkey-mind on steroids, Buddhism's methods are particularly helpful for these kinds of thinking disorders.
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A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.
yinyangkoi
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by yinyangkoi »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
Where can I find a good description of how karma works and how to identify it. I understand the dharma is right here and now, however instructions that point towards it are useful for me.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by yinyangkoi »

Jesse wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:04 pm Medicine sometimes becomes a requirement. Sometimes the brain just does not work the way it's supposed to. However, it also depends on the kinds of medications; some are more harmful than others. Avoid the narcotic classes all-together. Otherwise though they tend to be helpful, as long as you realize they are a symptom reducer, and not a cure.

If I understand you right, focusing on the breath causes you to panic, this happens to me also and so I use mantras for my object. Becoming aware of any of the autonomous nervous functions tends to cause anxiety in people with anxiety disorders. (Heart beating, breathing, etc).

Using a mantra,(or any other object) is just kind of a way to power through to that non-judgmental awareness.
Using meditation I have learned not to identify with it, but it's very hard not to slip.
Yep, it's painful as hell. But yes there is definitely relief using non-judging awareness. It takes a while to get it right, and to remember it, but once you do all of those pains go bye bye, at least for as long as you can maintain it.

The thoughts do not stop entirely, that is why non-judgement is so important. The thoughts themselves do not need to be gotten rid of (directly anyhow), so by using non-discriminating awareness- you actually no longer feed the 'mental seeds', so the tendencies for the thought to arise will evaporate over time.

Reading some on alaya-vijnana could be helpful in regards to this.

https://www.learnreligions.com/alaya-vi ... ess-449659

Since OCD is like monkey-mind on steroids, Buddhism's methods are particularly helpful for these kinds of thinking disorders.
Initially I got into Buddhism to solve the problem of existence and because the goals (wealth, status) of western society aren't meaningful to me. However then in my early twenties I developed this OCD and in the beginning it was like hell, the worst experience. I would lay in bed all day and ruminate and the anxiety was at peak all the time. The topics where about relationship, sexuality, getting ill or sick with cancer or schizophrenia. Then I got help from a doctor, he prescribed me a SSRI. It makes the anxiety not so strong, also the depression faded with it. It doesn't make me cloudy or anything else, I just notice the anxiety is less strong.

Also the OCD has started consuming the topic of buddhism, which is very scary indeed. Very disturbing tho I have this thought that I have to become a monk and achieve nirvana for all beings, and if I don't I will never be happy and I will be reborn in a hellish realm because I am so selfish and not becoming a monk. This thought causes anxiety because it means I have to leave all the people I love and care so much about. This is hard to deal with, I just don't know what the right thing to do is.

I can focus on the breath during meditation, of course until I get distracted. Yes sometimes I notice the heart beating or even just hard breathing when exercising triggers anxiety. I learned fast how to deal with it, but in the beginning I identified the thoughts as myself. However now I can't trust any emotions I have, I am trying to live life by reasoning and following the noble eight folded path.

Jesse, can I ask you a personal question? I have read in a previous thread about your OCD from 2014. How did it develop and how are you doing now?
Last edited by yinyangkoi on Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

yinyangkoi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:16 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
Where can I find a good description of how karma works and how to identify it. I understand the dharma is right here and now, however instructions that point towards it are useful for me.
Traleg Kyabgon Rinpoche: Karma: What it is, What it isn't, Why it's Important.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

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yinyangkoi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:41 pm

Also the OCD has started consuming the topic of buddhism, which is very scary indeed. Very disturbing tho I have this thought that I have to become a monk and achieve nirvana for all beings, and if I don't I will never be happy and I will be reborn in a hellish realm because I am so selfish and not becoming a monk. This thought causes anxiety because it means I have to leave all the people I love and care so much about. This is hard to deal with, I just don't know what the right thing to do is.
?
This is still identifying with your thoughts.

At least on an observable level, this is believing that your anxious thoughts must be true, even though you do not even have enough exposure to a variety of Buddhist opinions yet (from what you say) to draw such a conclusion.

A reasonable thing would be to read more (like it sounds like you are trying to do) and perhaps get the time of a teacher to ask question if you can...and secondarily to set aside these thoughts as perhaps being inaccurate and simply a result of anxious thinking.

Another approach is, don't try to fix anxious thoughts with more thoughts, explanations, etc. because that just keeps the chain of anxious thinking going.
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Punya »

yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am How can you change it if I can't control the thoughts?
You can't control thoughts. But just noticing your thoughts and actions changes things. The dharma gives you a framework in which positive change happens. It's good to cultivate a trust in that process. Changes are mostly small and subtle and it may take a while for you notice any difference.
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Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Jesse »

yinyangkoi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:41 pm
Jesse wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:04 pm Medicine sometimes becomes a requirement. Sometimes the brain just does not work the way it's supposed to. However, it also depends on the kinds of medications; some are more harmful than others. Avoid the narcotic classes all-together. Otherwise though they tend to be helpful, as long as you realize they are a symptom reducer, and not a cure.

If I understand you right, focusing on the breath causes you to panic, this happens to me also and so I use mantras for my object. Becoming aware of any of the autonomous nervous functions tends to cause anxiety in people with anxiety disorders. (Heart beating, breathing, etc).

Using a mantra,(or any other object) is just kind of a way to power through to that non-judgmental awareness.
Using meditation I have learned not to identify with it, but it's very hard not to slip.
Yep, it's painful as hell. But yes there is definitely relief using non-judging awareness. It takes a while to get it right, and to remember it, but once you do all of those pains go bye bye, at least for as long as you can maintain it.

The thoughts do not stop entirely, that is why non-judgement is so important. The thoughts themselves do not need to be gotten rid of (directly anyhow), so by using non-discriminating awareness- you actually no longer feed the 'mental seeds', so the tendencies for the thought to arise will evaporate over time.

Reading some on alaya-vijnana could be helpful in regards to this.

https://www.learnreligions.com/alaya-vi ... ess-449659

Since OCD is like monkey-mind on steroids, Buddhism's methods are particularly helpful for these kinds of thinking disorders.
Initially I got into Buddhism to solve the problem of existence and because the goals (wealth, status) of western society aren't meaningful to me. However then in my early twenties I developed this OCD and in the beginning it was like hell, the worst experience. I would lay in bed all day and ruminate and the anxiety was at peak all the time. The topics where about relationship, sexuality, getting ill or sick with cancer or schizophrenia. Then I got help from a doctor, he prescribed me a SSRI. It makes the anxiety not so strong, also the depression faded with it. It doesn't make me cloudy or anything else, I just notice the anxiety is less strong.

Also the OCD has started consuming the topic of buddhism, which is very scary indeed. Very disturbing tho I have this thought that I have to become a monk and achieve nirvana for all beings, and if I don't I will never be happy and I will be reborn in a hellish realm because I am so selfish and not becoming a monk. This thought causes anxiety because it means I have to leave all the people I love and care so much about. This is hard to deal with, I just don't know what the right thing to do is.

I can focus on the breath during meditation, of course until I get distracted. Yes sometimes I notice the heart beating or even just hard breathing when exercising triggers anxiety. I learned fast how to deal with it, but in the beginning I identified the thoughts as myself. However now I can't trust any emotions I have, I am trying to live life by reasoning and following the noble eight folded path.

Jesse, can I ask you a personal question? I have read in a previous thread about your OCD from 2014. How did it develop and how are you doing now?
To be frank I've had my ass kicked all over the place by my OCD. As you've experienced first hand, OCD when it gets out of control can easily devolve into delusions, and delusions that are persistent.

Medication alleviates the symptoms for me in a very minor way. For years I used narcotic anxiety reducers to reduce my symptoms. After developing some very serious memory problems, I've had to cut them out of my life.

The only genuine solution I have found is mindfulness practice as it inevitably leads to the dissolution of the belief that our thoughts are reality/have any reality behind them. When you realize thoughts are not reality, the entire mess comes undone. It is extraordinarily difficult to maintain this type of awareness, but if you are looking for a real solution, that is it.

I struggle daily to remember to practice, some days are bad, others are good. In particular the thing that holds me back the most is a sort of resentment for having to deal with mental illness, it causes me alot of anger. Who want's to deal with that shit right?

You pointed out using reasoning and the 8fold path, those are both extremely beneficial assets to combat mental illness. In particular the 4 noble truths, when understood correctly should help.
Very disturbing tho I have this thought that I have to become a monk and achieve nirvana for all beings, and if I don't I will never be happy and I will be reborn in a hellish realm because I am so selfish and not becoming a monk.
This borders on a delusion, if you realize it is a delusion and the thought persist in a obsessive way, then it's likely related to your OCD. But ya, that's OCD in a nutshell, it causes otherwise mundane, normal things to become obsessive, the obsessions cause anxiety. The crux of of the whole pile of crap is that anxiety response, as soon as the anxiety arises your brain forms associations between whatever your thinking about, and the anxiety response, forming extreme aversion to thinking those thoughts. Aversion is sort of like grasping in reverse, it want's to push away(the thoughts). You can't push something away without making contact with it. (sense contact). So this act has the result of creating karma. Your brain forms damaging habitual responses to these disruptive thought processes, and these are driven specifically by the anxiety, which acts like a power source of sorts.

You can approach it by attempting to sever the thoughts from their power source, using mindfulness. Mindfulness will eventually lead to a state of relaxed attention that does not grasp at objects it perceives. The thoughts arise, but since grasping is lessened or has ceased the anxiety response does not arise. Repeatedly doing this drains the power from the thoughts slowly over time. I should add that there is a very drastic difference between this awareness that does not grasp, and a condition called disassociation which can happen if you use meditation, and certain Buddhist practices incorrectly. I should be more cautious because I've suffered as a result of that misunderstanding, and you should find a teacher to consult with if you do not have one.
However now I can't trust any emotions I have
You can trust your reasoning abilities, and your compassion. Even though thoughts, and emotions are deceptive, they are fundemental for understanding dharma, and for practicing it. It just requires really thinking things through, I've had to fight delusions for a very long time, so I know how it feels.

I really hope you find a way to combat your anxiety and ocd. :hug:
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Thus shall ye think of all this fleeting world:
A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream;
A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.
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PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9438
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

yinyangkoi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:16 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
Where can I find a good description of how karma works and how to identify it. I understand the dharma is right here and now, however instructions that point towards it are useful for me.
A really good podcast is called “What’s Karma Got To Do With It” by Dr. Hun Lye at UrbanDharma (in North Carolina) covers the history and meaning of the concept of karma in Buddhist and pre-Buddhist usage, as well as how to understand it in the modern context;
https://urbandharmancpodcast.wordpress.com/
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Svalaksana
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:11 pm

Re: Can't control thoughts

Post by Svalaksana »

yinyangkoi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:16 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm
yinyangkoi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:39 am Then I identify them as negative (because they cause bad karma).
That’s an assumption. Also, incorrect.
Conflicting, or negative thoughts are the result of causes, or karma. But unless acted upon, they in themselves don’t cause negative karma. Thoughts have no substance.

The rest of the answers here are pretty good.
I just wanted to address that one point.
Where can I find a good description of how karma works and how to identify it. I understand the dharma is right here and now, however instructions that point towards it are useful for me.
I would recommend you to get Vasubandhu's Karmasiddhiprakarana. That's where I found one of the best, clearest and most detailed expositions of the operational mechanisms behind karma.

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Looking but not seeing - that's my eye.
Thinking but not minding - that's my mind.
Speaking but not expressing - that's my tongue.
Traveling but not going - that's my path.
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