Neurodharma by Rick Hanson

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Beginner's Mind
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Re: Neurodharma by Rick Hanson

Post by Beginner's Mind »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:37 pm Does the book discuss the mind in the bardo too?
Nowhere in the book is the word bardo used.
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Re: Neurodharma by Rick Hanson

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Beginner's Mind wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:24 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:37 pm Does the book discuss the mind in the bardo too?
Nowhere in the book is the word bardo used.
Didn’t think so. If you’re equating the physical brain with mind you’re looking at “this life” only. That’s missing the point.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

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Beginner's Mind wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:12 pm Anyway about Grace. My friend once told me that Buddhism differs from some of the other contemplative traditions in that it does not offer Grace.
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: Neurodharma by Rick Hanson

Post by Natan »

We all have Buddha-nature. That's grace.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

clyde wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 am
Beginner's Mind wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:12 pm Anyway about Grace. My friend once told me that Buddhism differs from some of the other contemplative traditions in that it does not offer Grace.
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
The closest thing to grace in Buddhism is the Pure Land concept of "other power."
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:44 pm
clyde wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 am
Beginner's Mind wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:12 pm Anyway about Grace. My friend once told me that Buddhism differs from some of the other contemplative traditions in that it does not offer Grace.
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
The closest thing to grace in Buddhism is the Pure Land concept of "other power."
Other power is essentially a subject-dependent idea. For the Buddha upon his awakening, it is the same thing in essence but without the subject-practitioner. This is why all forms of attainment of Buddhahood, from the Pure Land perspective, are said to be attained through reliance upon Other Power.

There's another Zen saying about how you cannot polish a tile expecting to make a mirror; you cannot sit in meditation expecting to attain Buddhahood.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Zhen Li wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:42 am
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:44 pm
clyde wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 am
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
The closest thing to grace in Buddhism is the Pure Land concept of "other power."
Other power is essentially a subject-dependent idea. For the Buddha upon his awakening, it is the same thing in essence but without the subject-practitioner. This is why all forms of attainment of Buddhahood, from the Pure Land perspective, are said to be attained through reliance upon Other Power.

There's another Zen saying about how you cannot polish a tile expecting to make a mirror; you cannot sit in meditation expecting to attain Buddhahood.
Yes, it’s inherently dualistic. For there to be an other, there has to be a self.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:44 pm
clyde wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 am
Beginner's Mind wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:12 pm Anyway about Grace. My friend once told me that Buddhism differs from some of the other contemplative traditions in that it does not offer Grace.
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
The closest thing to grace in Buddhism is the Pure Land concept of "other power."
The substance of which is Namu Amida Butsu
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:44 pm
clyde wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 am
Regarding grace, in Christian terms it means a spontaneous, unmerited gift of salvation.

I think this Zen saying comes close, “Enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice makes us accident prone.”

And I think (and I know others will object) that the words of the Buddha upon his awakening, “Unprovoked is my release,” expresses the sense of grace.
The closest thing to grace in Buddhism is the Pure Land concept of "other power."
The substance of which is Namu Amida Butsu
Not sure why one would not recite Namo Amitabha Buddha. In essence, this is a kind of buddhānusmṛti.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Matylda »

I do not think that there is anything like grace in dharma, as it is understood in the West. Neither TARIKI or other power could be this gace. Other power is just another expression for no-I or no-self. So I do not know if it could be compared with 'grace', as probably it is something like a gift from God, the Creator according to Western ideas.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Matylda wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pmOther power is just another expression for no-I or no-self.
Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Matylda wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pmOther power is just another expression for no-I or no-self.
Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
Other Power is just the working of Amitabha’s Vows

One Japanese Shin teacher said in effect can’t remember who: The Vows work whilst Amitabha enjoys his repose
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Matylda »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Matylda wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pmOther power is just another expression for no-I or no-self.
Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
Could be. In fact I am ignorant of Chinese PL teachoings. But I am sure about the meaning Shinran taught. And there is no other way of understanding tariki or true shinjin, unfortunately interpreted in the West as faith, just like faith in God etc.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:02 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Matylda wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pmOther power is just another expression for no-I or no-self.
Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
Could be. In fact I am ignorant of Chinese PL teachoings. But I am sure about the meaning Shinran taught. And there is no other way of understanding tariki or true shinjin, unfortunately interpreted in the West as faith, just like faith in God etc.
7) We celebrate the calm and lucid mind. While our inclusion of Buddhist contemplative practice acknowledges the value we place on inner silence through meditation, the heart of Shin practice lies in deep hearing which is about integrating heartfelt spirituality with daily living by developing a praxis of mindfulness on Amida’s unconditional grace, honest self-reflection, and the cultivation of compassion for all sentient beings, including ourselves….

14) We believe that true religious transmission only comes from the grace of the Primal Vow and is not conferred to us by any form of genetic connection through a priestly or monastic lineage or ancestor. We do not accept any form of the religious primogeniture system, the practice of hereditary succession of the religious teachers from the oldest male heir. Only by merit or grace alone can such positions be granted.
https://bffct.org/bff/nasba/religious-principles/
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

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Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:02 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Matylda wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pmOther power is just another expression for no-I or no-self.
Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
Could be. In fact I am ignorant of Chinese PL teachoings. But I am sure about the meaning Shinran taught. And there is no other way of understanding tariki or true shinjin, unfortunately interpreted in the West as faith, just like faith in God etc.
I am not a Chinese Pure Land practitioner. I just have not changed my Dharma name on this site because it would make reading old threads confusing for people, but I switched over to Jodo Shinshu Hongwanji-ha years ago.

Shinran does not teach that "other power is just another expression for no-I or no-self." In fact, Shinran never mentions no-self in any of his writings but it comes up in some quotes. Rather, aligning more with the Nirvāṇa Sūtra as he does, he quotes passages affirmin that Buddha Nature and Shinjin are equivalent to the True Self (e.g., KGSS V 115). It is difficult to say that Other Power itself is distinguished by a teaching such as no-self or True Self.

As for grace, the word, since it is used almost exclusively for Christianity, is not really suitable; just as we wouldn't call taking refuge or abhiṣeka baptism. But in the sense of being a gift or favour from a divine (or in this case, supradivine) being, Other Power is indeed a power that exerts grace.

Faith in the Christian sense (except, perhaps, in Calvinism) is something that the human must "do" themselves. But for Shinran, faith is endowed by Amida's Other Power. As Shinran writes, "The basis for Joyful Faith is Sincere Mind endowed by the Other-Power."

Faith is indeed very important in Jōdo Shinshū, but it is not the same faith as in Christianity. In Christianity, Yahweh gives humans, in his supposed creation of them, the faculty to believe in and obey him, or reject him and go to hell. In Jōdo Shinshū on the other hand, humans have no power to overcome their doubts and defilements by themselves—if they could, then there would not be any need for the 18th Vow. So, Amida gives them this faith that liberates them through his Vow Power which is Other Power. On humans' side, is only needed the willingness and openness to listen to the Dharma of Amdia as taught by Śākyamuni and the Pure Land patriarchs. The working of the vow occurs through naturalness (Jinen Honi). Thus "no working is true working" and Nembutsu is the "no practice practice" while being the "True Practice" as nothing we can do as humans can come near to the Truth that is Buddha Nature.

This grace truly can only exist as a human. On the side of a Buddha the dualism required for its functioning does not exist. This is what I was saying to Malcolm. This non-dualism, however, is not of use to us as bombus (foolish ordinary people) who must, instead, rely upon skilful means.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:41 am
7) We celebrate the calm and lucid mind. While our inclusion of Buddhist contemplative practice acknowledges the value we place on inner silence through meditation, the heart of Shin practice lies in deep hearing which is about integrating heartfelt spirituality with daily living by developing a praxis of mindfulness on Amida’s unconditional grace, honest self-reflection, and the cultivation of compassion for all sentient beings, including ourselves….

14) We believe that true religious transmission only comes from the grace of the Primal Vow and is not conferred to us by any form of genetic connection through a priestly or monastic lineage or ancestor. We do not accept any form of the religious primogeniture system, the practice of hereditary succession of the religious teachers from the oldest male heir. Only by merit or grace alone can such positions be granted.
https://bffct.org/bff/nasba/religious-principles/
This is an extremely idiosyncratic approach to Shin.

#7 is essentially using Other Power as an excuse to do Self Power practices. Shinran expresses this kind of Shinjin in the Three Kinds of incorrect faith:
1. one's faith is not sincere; at one time it exists and at another it does not;
2. one's faith is not single-hearted, because it is not firm;
3. one's faith is not constant, because it is mingled with other thoughts.
People without settled Shinjin will naturally feel a pull to other practices and seek to mix Nembutsu with other practices. I think for daily living, if you find mindfulness or meditation help you improve your state of mind, that's great and one should do it, but for a Jōdo Shinshū temple to promote it is really another thing and is really replicating (if not institutionalising) the issues currently present in BCA temples where you find Zen mixed with Jōdo Shinshū.

#14 is of course correct, but the last part is a bit strange. Religious teachers are such "by merit or grace"? I wonder how they verify this. For this reason Hongwanji-ha doesn't have any requirement of a confirmation of Shinjin for teachers, which leads to its own problems of course.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Matylda »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:41 am
Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:02 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:42 pm

Not the way it is described by Zhen Li and others.
Could be. In fact I am ignorant of Chinese PL teachoings. But I am sure about the meaning Shinran taught. And there is no other way of understanding tariki or true shinjin, unfortunately interpreted in the West as faith, just like faith in God etc.
7) We celebrate the calm and lucid mind. While our inclusion of Buddhist contemplative practice acknowledges the value we place on inner silence through meditation, the heart of Shin practice lies in deep hearing which is about integrating heartfelt spirituality with daily living by developing a praxis of mindfulness on Amida’s unconditional grace, honest self-reflection, and the cultivation of compassion for all sentient beings, including ourselves….

14) We believe that true religious transmission only comes from the grace of the Primal Vow and is not conferred to us by any form of genetic connection through a priestly or monastic lineage or ancestor. We do not accept any form of the religious primogeniture system, the practice of hereditary succession of the religious teachers from the oldest male heir. Only by merit or grace alone can such positions be granted.
https://bffct.org/bff/nasba/religious-principles/
Yes of course you are right. But I may say just this. Within Shin buddhist community is kind of deep disagreement as for the terms and language which is used in English texts born in the US. Why? the tradition arrived with Japanese imigrants in the 19th century. Priests of Shin school did not know English or if, then they knowledge was very poor. When there was need to comunicate their believes etc. they had to use terms which were unknown in English, so they borrowed American religious terms which predominantly of protestant kind.
So out of the blue appeared Shin texts full of Christian protestant terms.
Be aware that since many years in Japan there is very strong opposition against this unfortunate situation. There are priests whose English is almost perfect, people who graduated from American unis and they see serious problem.
As you may read, grace and other strange words are still in use. Sorry for that. Anyway since I had some friends in the Shin community, I knew some abbots and teachers, it was the problem which I heard about almost right from my first contacts years ago. I had also for a while very strong interest in Shinran who is praised by many eminenet zen masters, as the one who got it very deeply, and I was fascinated by myokonin - realized people of shin. Actually those fortunate people - myokonin, are the heart beat of this tradition. And this is most essential in Japan, not unfortunate language problems when with terms of completely uncompatible religion people try to expose buddhism or shin school or whatever. I think that if any buddhist tradition would be treated that way, lets say Tibentan buddhism, then the effect could be almost similar if not 100% similar.

I was told once by my friend from Europe that it actually happened in media over there and someone just read text of Mahakala practice or some other protectors and there was public heated discussion if buddhism is kind of satanistic cult or so. Mistakes and misinterpretations happen.

About grace I just wonder which Japanese buddhist term is translated like this. Then I can give precise senskrit or even tibetan word nd then one may judge by onself if it was really meant gace.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

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Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:40 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:41 am
Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:02 am

Could be. In fact I am ignorant of Chinese PL teachoings. But I am sure about the meaning Shinran taught. And there is no other way of understanding tariki or true shinjin, unfortunately interpreted in the West as faith, just like faith in God etc.
7) We celebrate the calm and lucid mind. While our inclusion of Buddhist contemplative practice acknowledges the value we place on inner silence through meditation, the heart of Shin practice lies in deep hearing which is about integrating heartfelt spirituality with daily living by developing a praxis of mindfulness on Amida’s unconditional grace, honest self-reflection, and the cultivation of compassion for all sentient beings, including ourselves….

14) We believe that true religious transmission only comes from the grace of the Primal Vow and is not conferred to us by any form of genetic connection through a priestly or monastic lineage or ancestor. We do not accept any form of the religious primogeniture system, the practice of hereditary succession of the religious teachers from the oldest male heir. Only by merit or grace alone can such positions be granted.
https://bffct.org/bff/nasba/religious-principles/
Yes of course you are right. But I may say just this. Within Shin buddhist community is kind of deep disagreement as for the terms and language which is used in English texts born in the US. Why? the tradition arrived with Japanese imigrants in the 19th century. Priests of Shin school did not know English or if, then they knowledge was very poor. When there was need to comunicate their believes etc. they had to use terms which were unknown in English, so they borrowed American religious terms which predominantly of protestant kind.
So out of the blue appeared Shin texts full of Christian protestant terms.
Be aware that since many years in Japan there is very strong opposition against this unfortunate situation. There are priests whose English is almost perfect, people who graduated from American unis and they see serious problem.
As you may read, grace and other strange words are still in use. Sorry for that. Anyway since I had some friends in the Shin community, I knew some abbots and teachers, it was the problem which I heard about almost right from my first contacts years ago. I had also for a while very strong interest in Shinran who is praised by many eminenet zen masters, as the one who got it very deeply, and I was fascinated by myokonin - realized people of shin. Actually those fortunate people - myokonin, are the heart beat of this tradition. And this is most essential in Japan, not unfortunate language problems when with terms of completely uncompatible religion people try to expose buddhism or shin school or whatever. I think that if any buddhist tradition would be treated that way, lets say Tibentan buddhism, then the effect could be almost similar if not 100% similar.

I was told once by my friend from Europe that it actually happened in media over there and someone just read text of Mahakala practice or some other protectors and there was public heated discussion if buddhism is kind of satanistic cult or so. Mistakes and misinterpretations happen.

About grace I just wonder which Japanese buddhist term is translated like this. Then I can give precise senskrit or even tibetan word nd then one may judge by onself if it was really meant gace.
I would push back slightly on the idea that Protestant terms are the source of similar terminology in Shin at all. Protestantism is not the source of all thinking on faith and belief, and every language and religious tradition has something to say about faith and belief. Faith is important to many but not all traditions. I don't think there is any emphasis on faith in Shinto. But terms we can translate as faith are important in Buddhism, and faith, as śraddha/saddhā is, for instance, included in the lists of the five powers, five faculties, and five qualities conducive to awakening, and is one of the bodhipakṣa. It is a definite requirement for awakening. Here's Edgerton's BHS definition for śraddha:
śraddha , adj. (= śrāddha, q.v., and Pali saddha; Vedic śraddha, not Class. Skt.), believing: SP 36.10, mss. śraddhā or śraddhāḥ, KN em. śrāddhāḥ; WT śraddhā-prasannāḥ as cpd.; Av i.83.8 (ms., ed. em. śrā°). [ID=15237]
The last compound is common, and uses the term "prasanna" in a way unique to Buddhism which also indicates belief or faith. Prasanna is the term corresponding to 信 in the 18th Vow in Sanskrit. Here's Edgerton's entry for prasanna:
prasanna , ppp., adj. (= Pali pasanna, used in same way, with loc.; cf. abhi-pra°, and (abhi-) prasāda; seems not to be recorded in Skt.), believing in (loc.): yada puna janatā prasanna brahme LV 393.14 (vs), but since people have faith in Brahmc (I will turn the wheel of the law only on his request); cittam abhiprasannam, prasanna-cittaś ca…Divy 137.1. [ID=10591]
Prasannacitta directly corresponds to 信心, Shinjin.

Another analogy, just because Buddhism emphasises generosity, and Jesus also emphasised generosity, does not make Buddhism Christian in any sense. Similarity in one principle which many religions hold in common is really not enough to say that one religion, or the translations of terms is coming from one other religion. Buddhists do prostrations, Muslims do prostrations. Buddhism is not therefore Muslim or influenced by it.

So, if in Jōdo Shinshū faith alone is the cause of birth in the Pure Land (which is what Shinran holds), and if Christianity also suggests that faith alone is the cause of birth or resurrection into heaven (however they phrase it), this doesn't mean that there is any influence. It is a coincidence, and one we shouldn't be surprised at considering the commonality of the use of the idea of belief and faith in religions in general. It is unique that these two traditions emphasise faith above all else (which other religions don't necessarily hold), but that is where the similarities end. In Christianity, birth in heaven is an endpoint in itself, but in Buddhism, going to the Pure Land is just a way to attain Buddhahood and return to this world to help others. Also, in Christianity, disbelief results in punishment in hell, but in Jōdo Shinshū disbelief does not entail anything of the sort and doesn't entail any inability to be born at some point in the future.

Also, keep in mind that the translations of Shinran are coming out of Japan, not the USA. The Collected Works of Shinran are published by Hongwanji-ha translation center directly by Japanese scholars, and Inagaki's translations (which many still prefer) are also, of course, by a native Japanese.

BCA, however, does Christianise their temples, and this is unfortunate and drives many would-be Buddhists away. It is great that in Canada they renamed BCC to Jodo Shinshu Buddhist Temples of Canada and that the "Churches" are being renamed as "Temples." Another issue, I think, is the way many temples are set up essentially like churches. This, however, is not really the question here.

Also, NASBA is using the term "grace" but I don't think this is a translation of any Japanese term. Grace is not a native Buddhist idea so, as I said above, NASBA is being idiosyncratic in this regard. Their interpretation of Shin is very suspect on many levels.

So, I think it is very inaccurate to say Shin texts are "full of Christian protestant terms."
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Matylda »

Zhen Li wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:52 am Another analogy, just because Buddhism emphasises generosity, and Jesus also emphasised generosity, does not make Buddhism Christian in any sense. Similarity in one principle which many religions hold in common is really not enough to say that one religion, or the translations of terms is coming from one other religion. Buddhists do prostrations, Muslims do prostrations. Buddhism is not therefore Muslim or influenced by it.

So, if in Jōdo Shinshū faith alone is the cause of birth in the Pure Land (which is what Shinran holds), and if Christianity also suggests that faith alone is the cause of birth or resurrection into heaven (however they phrase it)So, I think it is very inaccurate to say Shin texts are "full of Christian protestant terms."
Well christian terminology in English shin texts is just historical fact. so, i have nothing to say more about it
as for generosity... well it has nothing to do with Jesus or any other figure and their teachings... similarity of word in any Western language does not mean anything with exception of mounting misunderstandings.
There was a debate, at least some time ago, among shin priests in Japan concerning translation from Japanese into other languages mainly English. As I wrote it was very very heated confronatation, since there is already number of well educated people who really have very critical opinion about the level of English translations. So it is another fact.

Just for amusement. Once a friend of mine showed me in some history book how Christian missionaries worked in Japan in the 16th century. So catholic priests asked Japanese priests and lay people who is the main of all those Japanese gods and buddhas etc. etc. so the final conclusion among Japanese informers pressed by guests was that it is Dainichi - the Japanese name given to Vairochana Buddha. Somehow it slipped their attention, that it is in fact a buddha. Neither god or God, the Creator. So in the very very begining of their missionary Catholic priests just walked streets of Kyoto calling luodly and unknowingly FOLK! WORSHIP DAINICHI! WORSHIP DAINICHI! i.e. Vairochana. People were so overwhelmed that they took them to a temple where there was Vairochana and showed them, of course to the horror of Catholic European priests. Then they went the opposite and tried to convince people not to worship Vairochana, leaving simple people dumb.

So probably every religion has this problem not only Buddhism or Shin school.. once it goes out of its original habitat into completely different culture and language enviroment, there is no verbal or letter tool to ensure smooth transmission and accomodation in the begining.
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Re: Grace in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Matylda wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:47 pm
Zhen Li wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:52 am Another analogy, just because Buddhism emphasises generosity, and Jesus also emphasised generosity, does not make Buddhism Christian in any sense. Similarity in one principle which many religions hold in common is really not enough to say that one religion, or the translations of terms is coming from one other religion. Buddhists do prostrations, Muslims do prostrations. Buddhism is not therefore Muslim or influenced by it.

So, if in Jōdo Shinshū faith alone is the cause of birth in the Pure Land (which is what Shinran holds), and if Christianity also suggests that faith alone is the cause of birth or resurrection into heaven (however they phrase it)So, I think it is very inaccurate to say Shin texts are "full of Christian protestant terms."
Well christian terminology in English shin texts is just historical fact. so, i have nothing to say more about it
The first definition of grace, in English, is:

Definition of grace (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification


Now, I agree with both you and Zhen Li that "grace" is not an appropriate word to use in Buddhadharma, on the other hand, you can forgive people for seeing what is referred to as the "primal vow" as a form fo grace: "unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification." And I guarantee you, despite your misgivings, many Westerners are inclined to see such concepts in light of "grace," just as many people confuse the Tibetan "byin rlabs (adhiṣṭhāna)", i.e., "conferred or transformed through power," aka blessings, for something like grace.
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