Is the Heart Sutra Nihilism?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is the Heart Sutra Nihilism?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:35 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:38 am
Ardha wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:44 am From where I stand if I saw things as empty that isn't much of a step from being cold.
What do you suppose is meant by the word, “empty”? What do you think it means in the heart sutra?
If all is transient then why bother having things to hold on to and to help in such matters (like doctors to heal the sick).
Holding onto things and helping others
are two entirely different things.

Firstly, You can enjoy things without holding onto them. You need to breathe to live. But what would happen if you just held your breath and never exhaled? You would die. You have to hold and then let go. Holding can also be confining. Some people are control freaks or try to emotionally box in other people. That’s also holding, in a sense.

If you love someone, yes, you can hold them, you can hug them. Suppose you saw a dear loved one after many years and you just wanted to hug them, and it is the best feeling. But what if somehow you got permanently stuck together in that position? Suddenly, that wonderful hugging experience would become a nightmare. Especially when either of you needed to use the toilet.

So, it isn’t the things or the events themselves.
Grief is the most painful of all human emotions, yet, ironically, the most painful grief comes from recalling the happiest memories that one has held on to. So, even thoughts do not contain any intrinsic qualities. Things, thoughts, events, in that regard they are empty. Holding onto them is fine, but it’s not a guarantee if anything.

Ultimately, everything you think you can hold onto is transient. So, when you ask, “...if everything is transient...” what “if” are you talking about exactly?

Secondly, the true motivation to help others isn’t dependent on or based on some kind of permanence. A doctor will try to keep a person alive and without pain until death comes. But no doctor ever kept a person alive forever.

Every‘thing’ arises from interconnectedness, ftom an interdependence on everything else. It is ‘empty’ of self-arising. That is its form. It’s like the roar of the ocean waves on the beach. That’s what a billion dripping faucets sound like all at once.

HH Dalai Lama’s book, Essence of the Heart Sutra is, I think, one of the best writings on the subject. He’s quite an expert, I’m told.
I don't know, if I don't hold onto things I can't really enjoy them. I mean if I didn't care about a game I was playing or the sensation of a breeze on my skin then I would just regard everything as gray.

Grief is even more complicated for me as letting go of the happy memories isn't something I want to do, it just feels heartless...cold. Like if I forget then I didn't care about them. I like the memories I have of my dog, even if it hurts sometimes.

To me empty is the same as nothing, not there, doesn't exist. Everything being empty means that nothing exists, not even existence.

I get that everything is transient, but I don't see how understanding that mindset breeds anything but callousness. Why save someone if "eventually everyone dies". I can recall a number of cases were patients were saved because neither them or the doctor would let them go, among others. I just don't think it's that simple as "everything ends". It is true, I won't deny that, but it just feels like a cold thing to live by.

From what I see on the Heart Sutra it says existence does not exist, everything is but an illusion, which sounds traumatic. I mean that's Maya right? Nothing exists, existence doesn't exist, everything is illusion right? I know that it's call Heart because it gets to the literal heart of the matter, not because it's caring. I read somewhere that there were stories of people reacting violently or vomiting when Buddha recited it, though that could just be embellishing. Though looking at it I can see why.
Emptiness does not mean what you interpret it as meaning. For example, you mention games.
What games have you played during your life? Sports? A card game? Aboard game? Did you enjoy playing them?
So.... The games you played when you were six years old,
Maybe you won playing ‘go fish’... Are you still holding onto that?

And it’s fine to hold onto memories (although technically, we recreate them each time). The Heart Sutra doesn’t say not to do that! But consider, you can’t think about everything at the same time. In fact, you can’t teally think about two things exactly at the same time. So, in Ofer to think about this thing, you have to let go of that thing. You are already doing it, all the time!

At the same time, you are holding tightly to your (mis)understanding of heart sutra, yet that doesn’t seem to be bringing you much joy. If holding on to something were truly the source of happiness, then holding onto everything you could would make you the happiest person in the world!

A few people have given you some really good answers and explanations. You really should take time to read them carefully.
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is the Heart Sutra Nihilism?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ok, seems like we have reached a point where the OP has been given plenty of responses and chosen to simply not accept them. No problem, but it’s a sign the thread is done.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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