Unprecedented happenings?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Rick
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Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

Does anything truly unprecedented ever happen?

One way to answer this might be: Everything that happens, every moment is unprecedented — the 'content' of this moment is utterly unique (to this moment), never was before and never shall be again.

Another might be: Nothing that happens is unprecedented — everything that arises is dependent on everything that has arisen before.

Another still: Nothing has ever happened, is happening, or will ever happen.

What's a poor dharma wallflower to think?
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coldbeer
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by coldbeer »

Nothing. Just recite Namo Amida Butsu :smile:
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Rick
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

Things can feel like they are unique and even alien, as if they sprang fully formed from another dimension. An idea, a vision, a feeling, an understanding, a realization. Buddha's most penetrating insights. Nagarjuna's. Einstein's.

But is the mind truly capable of generating unprecedented things? Or is even the most original idea precedented: a retrieval/reshuffling of knowledge, memories, experiences?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

I remember listening to a Dharma talk from Reggie Ray years ago, he had a saying - "reality is unprecedented"...if you think about it, this is pretty accurate. karmic patterns repeat, but never exactly, and what was once seen as "the way things are" ceases to be the way things are. That's just the way things are, lol. ;)
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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Rick
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

I have a two-truth reaction:

On the level of the conventional, dependent arising rules, and nothing is truly unprecedented in the sense that everything is related to everything.

On the ultimate level, dependent arising is seen to be empty and unreal, and everything always is utterly unprecedented, utterly new.
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avatamsaka3
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by avatamsaka3 »

Suffering and karma aren't anything new. People suffering and accruing bad karma has been happening for as long as beings have existed. That's the important part.

As far as what we experience, it's said to all fit into the five aggregates. I'm not familiar with the idea that they can be created. So, it's just different permutations of phenomena that we're seeing.
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Rick
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

In the arts you sometimes see things like "There's nothing new under the sun, everything you do has been done before."

I never liked this way of thinking, I always felt like every creation is unique ... in the sense that it never existed before. Even if it's clearly derivative of this or that earlier work, a new song (drawing, story) is unprecedented.

But then I started thinking (always dangerous) about how this fit in with pratītyasamutpāda. And remembering Anam Thubten say o'er and o'er a-gain: "Nothing has happened. Nothing is happening. Nothing will ever happen."

Now I wonder ...
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Rick wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:51 pm Does anything truly unprecedented ever happen?

One way to answer this might be: Everything that happens, every moment is unprecedented — the 'content' of this moment is utterly unique (to this moment), never was before and never shall be again.

Another might be: Nothing that happens is unprecedented — everything that arises is dependent on everything that has arisen before.

Another still: Nothing has ever happened, is happening, or will ever happen.

What's a poor dharma wallflower to think?
There is a slight flaw undermining this whole question.
By referring to anything or nothing as arising or happening, you are (perhaps inadvertently) considering that phenomena occurs in a static form, that there is a moment when the constantly changing interaction of phenomena sort of freezes, like a snapshot, a moment during which a “thing” truly exists.

The flaw in that premise is that such a moment never actually ever occurs. Thus, the question of unprecedentedness is really kind of moot. It’s like watching the waves roll onto a beach. Has that ever happened before? Yes, it has been happening continuously and in exactly the same way for millions of years. But has that particular wave ever washed up onto the beach before? No, never. Each wave in millions of years is unique.
EMPTIFUL.
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Rick
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

Yeah, good point.

I'm jumping levels, yoyo-ing between (my fathomings of) conventional and ultimate truth. It's like I'm trying to see X from all angles, sometimes simultaneously.

But ya know, this is more or less how I roll ... one foot in, one out. I appreciate it that Dharma Wheel lets me spin my little tales. :bow:
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avatamsaka3
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by avatamsaka3 »

It's like I'm trying to see X from all angles
When you see suffering from all angles, then you'll really have something.
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Rick
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Re: Unprecedented happenings?

Post by Rick »

avatamsaka3 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:54 pm
It's like I'm trying to see X from all angles
When you see suffering from all angles, then you'll really have something.
Yes, we develop soooooooooo many defense tools and strategies (largely unconscious, I'd reckon) to minimize and in some cases hide from suffering. Ours and the world's. We even turn suffering into pleasure: The romantic notion of rising above one's obstacles to the sun-streaked mountaintop.

I'm not the greatest fan of humankind, but I give it huge credit for its endless creativity.
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