Is Buddhism necessary?

[SaaZ]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a doubt crosses my mind: what if all this Buddhism is just a big fuss over nothing?

I mainly studied the Soto Zen tradition and I have been practising Zazen (Zen meditation) twice a day for almost 10 years. Although there is a side of me that thinks Buddhism is the only way to go. Sometimes I have some doubts, like:
- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.
- When people say "don't overthink stuff" it can be pretty close to what a generic meditation is.
- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?
- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

Thanks

[PadmaVonSamba]

Do you need the Buddhist teachings in order to be happy? No.
What do you think you need the teachings for?

[Queequeg]

If all beings can see clearly, then unnecessary.

This is just a regimen for developing our ability to see and passing the wisdom on to future generations.

That is all.

[Hazel]

- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.

You are only seeing the Buddhists for what they are like as Buddhists. If they hadn't found the dharma, perhaps they'd be quite worse!

- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?

I would trust your gut on that. Growth always has a cause. In your case the "life experiences" could have been encountering and practicing the Dharma. You may be falling into the trap of gazing at the other side of the fence.

- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

The causes and conditions were not right. There are many truths and fundamental good things that don't catch on. The Buddhist explanation would of course be "karma", but you can look outside of philosophy to all sorts of prime examples in the world around you of lies prevailing/truths not catching on, or opportunities for improvement being missed despite the quality of that opportunity.

I'll give an example. If you stood on a busy street corner in the city and went up to people asked if they wanted $100, I bet many many people would avoid eye contact and walk faster, even if you really were going to give them that $100.

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

All sorts of doubts! So many doubts. And fears that I'll wander off the path. But if I sit down and think about all the ways my life has changed and how Buddhism has helped me grow as a person, I know I'm making the correct choice to practice.

[seeker242]

- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?

If you have been practicing Buddhism then that is virtually impossible as every action, karma, has some kind of effect. To think that it has had no effect would essentially be a denial of cause and effect, a denial of karma having consequences. Not to mention that there are millions of deeply neurotic old people out there who already have plenty of life experiences, yet still remain deeply neurotic.

But, the goal of Buddhism is not really just to stop being a neurotic person and become a normal person, it's to stop being a normal person and become an enlightened person. Is it necessary to stop being neurotic and become a normal person? I would say no certainly not as many people have done that without it. It is necessary to accomplish the actual goal of it by becoming a Buddha and saving all beings from suffering? Certainly yes as no normal person can do that.

[coldbeer]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a doubt crosses my mind: what if all this Buddhism is just a big fuss over nothing?

I mainly studied the Soto Zen tradition and I have been practising Zazen (Zen meditation) twice a day for almost 10 years. Although there is a side of me that thinks Buddhism is the only way to go. Sometimes I have some doubts, like:
- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.
- When people say "don't overthink stuff" it can be pretty close to what a generic meditation is.
- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?
- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

Thanks

You have to be truly disgusted with samsara in order to be a genuine practitioner of Buddhism. If you are looking for impermanent samsaric happiness then there are many other ways to get it. Sex, drugs, good food, wealth achievement etc.

Namo Amida Butsu

[Hazel]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a doubt crosses my mind: what if all this Buddhism is just a big fuss over nothing?

I mainly studied the Soto Zen tradition and I have been practising Zazen (Zen meditation) twice a day for almost 10 years. Although there is a side of me that thinks Buddhism is the only way to go. Sometimes I have some doubts, like:
- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.
- When people say "don't overthink stuff" it can be pretty close to what a generic meditation is.
- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?
- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

Thanks

You have to be truly disgusted with samsara in order to be a genuine practitioner of Buddhism. If you are looking for impermanent samsaric happiness then there are many other ways to get it. Sex, drugs, good food, wealth achievement etc.

Namo Amida Butsu

I'm inclined not to doubt the authenticity of SaaZ's practice.

[SaaZ]

Thank you all!

What do you think you need the teachings for?

Tough question; short answer: I don't know. In the beginning, It just clicked and was the answer. Now I masochistically keep trying to grasp conceptually something that is not a concept.

You may be falling into the trap of gazing at the other side of the fence.

Can you tell me more? Does it refer to the above fact that I'm a masochist?

If you have been practising Buddhism then that is virtually impossible as every action, karma, has some kind of effect.

There are a lot of spurious correlations (funny site: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations), although I might be the one overly sceptical.

You have to be truly disgusted with samsara in order to be a genuine practitioner of Buddhism

Case solved then

[coldbeer]

I'm inclined not to doubt the authenticity of SaaZ's practice.

I'm not doubting his practice but it could be better if he can crank up the intensity level.

[coldbeer]

Case solved then

[Hazel]

You may be falling into the trap of gazing at the other side of the fence.

Can you tell me more? Does it refer to the above fact that I'm a masochist?

It sounds like you have a fruitful long standing practice, but are stuck in the "what ifs".

However, if you truly doubt your practice is having an effect, I'd ask your teacher. Maybe there are ways that it can be improved! And if you don't have a teacher to ask, that may be your problem.

However, take my advice with something smaller than a grain of salt as I am new(ish) on the path.

I wish you well!

[Johnny Dangerous]

If you’re just trying to have a happy life, no. If you want out of samsara, yes.

[LastLegend]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a doubt crosses my mind: what if all this Buddhism is just a big fuss over nothing?

I mainly studied the Soto Zen tradition and I have been practising Zazen (Zen meditation) twice a day for almost 10 years. Although there is a side of me that thinks Buddhism is the only way to go. Sometimes I have some doubts, like:
- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.
- When people say "don't overthink stuff" it can be pretty close to what a generic meditation is.
- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?
- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

Thanks

Doubt is karma. Five aggregates continue to trick us.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I think the thing is this:
There are many ways to be happy and content in this lifetime.
The buddhist path is in a sense, twofold. It provides the means to be freed from samsaric rebirth, and it also provides lots of instructions for living a happy life now. And probably most people like Buddhism for the second reason, whether they are Buddhists or not, especially in our culture where most people want satisfaction right away, and don’t really believe in rebirth anyhow.

But none of the handy tips for living a harmonious life, Buddhist or otherwise, in themselves, lead to anything permanent. So, for example, even if you avoid killing, while this is good for you in so many ways, the resulting happy life, and its good fortunes, is still temporary.

In other words, practicing just for this lifetime is good, but not quite good enough. You’ll be back for more praise and blame, more reward and abuse, again and again later on.

So, the question then is, what is your motivation, and what do you need to be practicing based on that motivation? And I think the answer to that lies somewhere in the wish to attain realization for the benefit of all other sentient beings. But I’m not sure. You’ll have to look into that one yourself, I think.

[LastLegend]

Tough question; short answer: I don't know. In the beginning, It just clicked and was the answer. Now I masochistically keep trying to grasp conceptually something that is not a concept.

The very issue: what part of mind knows sound? Suppose that sound isn’t known, would luminous still be there? Chan says not knowing anything (without luminous) is the abyss of ignorance.

[LastLegend]

It helps to understand grasping: there is a part of mind that behaves by making distinction (example: enlightenment versus non-enlightenment). This can creates a dual trap with concept proliferation. When asking what part of mind is simply for us to recognize/contemplate directly how it behaves.

The abyss of ignorance is a concern my teacher says due to defilements. The description of Great Cessation is still a product of divisive consciousness...by describing it if we try to construct enlightenment with consciousness that’s a dual trap. All dharmas is mind right, is consciousness precisely. If consciousness is absolutely cessitated, where is sound or any dharma to be found? The concern is abyss of ignorance.

[seeker242]

There are a lot of spurious correlations

A good question I think is how can you know the correlations are spurious to begin with?! Just because neuroticism can be cured with something like psychotherapy, or normal life experiences, doesn't really mean it can't be cured by practicing Buddhism. Although, there is plenty of hard scientific evidence that just the simple act of meditating can reduce neuroticism because it literally changes the physical structure and functioning of the brain. That correlation is actually proven to be a causation.

[LastLegend]

Since you have Zen background,

Ten herding ox,



9 is enlightenment complete cessation of consciousness (only Buddha nature)...10. Returning to the world consciousness re-emerges as wisdom and other four aggregates still the same...mountain is still mountain, sound is still sound right.

[Budai]

Have you not grasped the basics of the Four Noble Truths that lead to the Noble Eightfold Path?

1. Suffering
Life always involves suffering, in obvious and subtle forms. Even when things seem good, we always feel an undercurrent of anxiety and uncertainty inside.

2. The Cause of Suffering
The cause of suffering is craving and fundamental ignorance. We suffer because of our mistaken belief that we are a separate, independent, solid “I.” The painful and futile struggle to maintain this delusion of ego is known as samsara, or cyclic existence.

3. The End of Suffering
The good news is that our obscurations are temporary. They are like passing clouds that obscure the sun of our enlightened nature, which is always present. Therefore, suffering can end because our obscurations can be purified and awakened mind is always available to us.

4. The Path
By living ethically, practicing meditation, and developing wisdom, we can take exactly the same journey to enlightenment and freedom from suffering that the buddhas do. We too can wake up.

Living a life of craving, bouncing around relationships, then dying--not knowing where one will go in their next life is not a purposeful as of existence as liberating all beings from this painful world, as a Bodhisattva, then a Buddha.

Don't give up on Buddhism because you desire to enjoy this world separately from the Dharma, but instead, find meaning in the Dharma, give the gift of it to others, and find enjoyment in that.

[LastLegend]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a doubt crosses my mind: what if all this Buddhism is just a big fuss over nothing?

I mainly studied the Soto Zen tradition and I have been practising Zazen (Zen meditation) twice a day for almost 10 years. Although there is a side of me that thinks Buddhism is the only way to go. Sometimes I have some doubts, like:
- It appears to me that Buddhist and non-Buddhist have the same quality of life; random people that seem ok and random Buddhist that seem tangled in their own problem.
- When people say "don't overthink stuff" it can be pretty close to what a generic meditation is.
- I think Buddhism changed me from being a deeply neurotic person to a normal guy, but what if is just the common growing and life experiences and that has nothing to do with Buddhism?
- Buddhist is great! Why not everyone is Buddhist? Why among my peer and relatives I'm the only one?

Do you also have these doubts? Any comment?

Thanks

Quality is determined by merits and decrease of karma. Example of decrease of karma, is your head is very light not heavy by karma. But if mind just gears towards quality of life instead of enlightenment then that’s what you get.

No sir, without practicing your mind isn’t clear and without being clear you’ll chase things when you chase things, you’ll get karma. Ever been with woman lol, they draw you into their delusion especially women who don’t practice.