Self Defense

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Queequeg
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Queequeg »

neander wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:59 am
Queequeg wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:42 pm
neander wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:03 pm ”I attacked the Zen school as the invention of the heavenly devil, and the Shingon school as an evil doctrine that will ruin the nation, and insisted that the temples of the Nembutsu [Pure Land], Zen, and Ritsu priests be burned down and the Nembutsu priests and the others beheaded.”
Nichiren explained that was rhetoric. He was calling for the restraint of what he considered slander of Dharma and suspension of alms and support to those he deemed slanderers.

I also suggest you reading "Nichiren, Imperialism, and the Peace Movement" in the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies
Why? Because that will give a better insight into the man than his own writings? I've read that, and many others. Thanks.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
neander
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Re: Self Defense

Post by neander »

That paper highlights some aspects that are very often omitted by SG and other Nichiren's traditions pacifist image.

If you are aware that's fine.
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Queequeg
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Queequeg »

neander wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:05 pm That paper highlights some aspects that are very often omitted by SG and other Nichiren's traditions pacifist image.

If you are aware that's fine.
Today's SGI omits it. Not the old school that I grew up with. They were militantly pacifist. Very true to Nichiren's hot rhetoric. Not the happy shiny people thing they do now.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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coldbeer
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Re: Self Defense

Post by coldbeer »

Queequeg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:12 pm
neander wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:05 pm That paper highlights some aspects that are very often omitted by SG and other Nichiren's traditions pacifist image.

If you are aware that's fine.
Today's SGI omits it. Not the old school that I grew up with. They were militantly pacifist. Very true to Nichiren's hot rhetoric. Not the happy shiny people thing they do now.
Weren't the nichiren folks the most pro militant in Japan during ww1 and ww2?
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Queequeg
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Re: Self Defense

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coldbeer wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:56 pm
Queequeg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:12 pm
neander wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:05 pm That paper highlights some aspects that are very often omitted by SG and other Nichiren's traditions pacifist image.

If you are aware that's fine.
Today's SGI omits it. Not the old school that I grew up with. They were militantly pacifist. Very true to Nichiren's hot rhetoric. Not the happy shiny people thing they do now.
Weren't the nichiren folks the most pro militant in Japan during ww1 and ww2?
Some. Some were also miltantly pacifist. There were Nichiren Buddhists who were at the front in China and in the middle of the battle took off their uniforms and walked through the battlefield chanting Daimoku. Don't know the full story.

The leaders of Soka Gakkai were imprisoned because they refused to go along with the Shinto Nationalism.

Nipponzan Myohoji founded by a guy named Fujii are definitely pacifist. He was basically exiled from Japan because of his pacifism. Went to India and became friends with Gandhi. Legend is that he was the one who suggested to Gandhi that Asoka's wheel be put on India's flag. These are the people who build peace pagodas all over the world.

Some were very nationalist. I wouldn't say they were the most pro militant and nationalist.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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coldbeer
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Re: Self Defense

Post by coldbeer »

Queequeg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:19 pm
coldbeer wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:56 pm
Queequeg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:12 pm

Today's SGI omits it. Not the old school that I grew up with. They were militantly pacifist. Very true to Nichiren's hot rhetoric. Not the happy shiny people thing they do now.
Weren't the nichiren folks the most pro militant in Japan during ww1 and ww2?
Some. Some were also miltantly pacifist. There were Nichiren Buddhists who were at the front in China and in the middle of the battle took off their uniforms and walked through the battlefield chanting Daimoku. Don't know the full story.

The leaders of Soka Gakkai were imprisoned because they refused to go along with the Shinto Nationalism.

Nipponzan Myohoji founded by a guy named Fujii are definitely pacifist. He was basically exiled from Japan because of his pacifism. Went to India and became friends with Gandhi. Legend is that he was the one who suggested to Gandhi that Asoka's wheel be put on India's flag. These are the people who build peace pagodas all over the world.

Some were very nationalist. I wouldn't say they were the most pro militant and nationalist.
interesting history
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Re: Self Defense

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Könchok Chödrak wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:31 am
Whether they belong to more evolved species like humans or to simpler ones such as animals, all beings primarily seek peace, comfort, and security. Life is as dear to the mute animal as it is to any human being; even the simplest insect strives for protection from dangers that threaten its life. Just as each one of us wants to live and does not wish to die, so it is with all other creatures in the universe, though their power to effect this is a different matter.
-The Dalai Lama, from "A Human Approach to World Peace."

If we live to protect all beings that strive for a similar happiness that you also need deep down inside, then we are living out the Bodhissatvic ideal, whether it is in martial conflicts or in some other field of activity, as long as our goal is Peace. The Bodhisattva strives for Peace. Because Buddhism is built on Compassion.
It seems like a contrary stance though. So long as people live they will suffer, the only peace I can imagine is death (the end). In death one does not suffer. Seems like if the goal of life is peace then extinction of the planet's life is what is needed. So long as life persists so will suffering.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:36 am
Könchok Chödrak wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:31 am
Whether they belong to more evolved species like humans or to simpler ones such as animals, all beings primarily seek peace, comfort, and security. Life is as dear to the mute animal as it is to any human being; even the simplest insect strives for protection from dangers that threaten its life. Just as each one of us wants to live and does not wish to die, so it is with all other creatures in the universe, though their power to effect this is a different matter.
-The Dalai Lama, from "A Human Approach to World Peace."

If we live to protect all beings that strive for a similar happiness that you also need deep down inside, then we are living out the Bodhissatvic ideal, whether it is in martial conflicts or in some other field of activity, as long as our goal is Peace. The Bodhisattva strives for Peace. Because Buddhism is built on Compassion.
It seems like a contrary stance though. So long as people live they will suffer, the only peace I can imagine is death (the end). In death one does not suffer. Seems like if the goal of life is peace then extinction of the planet's life is what is needed. So long as life persists so will suffering.
I wonder if you've ever heard of reincarnation? The whole meaning of samsara is that we reincarnate endlessly, living out our suffering lifetime after lifetime. It doesn't stop with death.

This is actually the whole point of the buddhist path. Through practice we can become gradually free of our suffering and the karma which perpetuates the whole cycle. When we become enlightened, only then will suffering end.

The good news is that Buddha taught the path to free ourselves from the endless cycle. Liberation is what we're after.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:40 am
Ardha wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:36 am
Könchok Chödrak wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:31 am
-The Dalai Lama, from "A Human Approach to World Peace."

If we live to protect all beings that strive for a similar happiness that you also need deep down inside, then we are living out the Bodhissatvic ideal, whether it is in martial conflicts or in some other field of activity, as long as our goal is Peace. The Bodhisattva strives for Peace. Because Buddhism is built on Compassion.
It seems like a contrary stance though. So long as people live they will suffer, the only peace I can imagine is death (the end). In death one does not suffer. Seems like if the goal of life is peace then extinction of the planet's life is what is needed. So long as life persists so will suffering.
I wonder if you've ever heard of reincarnation? The whole meaning of samsara is that we reincarnate endlessly, living out our suffering lifetime after lifetime. It doesn't stop with death.

This is actually the whole point of the buddhist path. Through practice we can become gradually free of our suffering and the karma which perpetuates the whole cycle. When we become enlightened, only then will suffering end.

The good news is that Buddha taught the path to free ourselves from the endless cycle. Liberation is what we're after.
But if there is no self there isn't really anything to reincarnate so death would be the end. Also there isn't really a guarantee that at the end of the path you won't reincarnate again. Buddha was an interesting human, but I wouldn't take his word entirely about the end of suffering.

Not that I believe in reincarnation nor do I think there is any convincing evidence for it. Maybe when you become enlightened suffering will end, but I can't be sure I won't come back. Also I don't know if enlightenment is the truth of existence and not just simply a state brought about by practice. You can shape yourself to it but to me that doesn't tell me anything about reality. I know plenty of people on different paths that lead them to what they believe to be true, I just smile an wave.

I still think death is the only true answer to suffering if your goal is utter peace then the logical conclusion is to wipe out all life to prevent further suffering. Intense? Sure. But so is the goal of peace for all sentient beings.

From what I gather on several Buddhist sites there is no guarantee there is an endless cycle or that the path stops it. Sounds more like just one more thing people believe in. True "liberation" from what I see is wiping everything out so that nothing is left to spawn more living things. Sounds to me like Buddhism invented reincarnation to stop that conclusion. Also depending on what I hear you don't have memories of your previous life in reincarnation. So it's likely you are just wasting your time seeking liberation because the slate gets wiped clean in the next life. It doesn't seem like it has been tested, just asserted.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm But if there is no self there isn't really anything to reincarnate so death would be the end. Also there isn't really a guarantee that at the end of the path you won't reincarnate again. Buddha was an interesting human, but I wouldn't take his word entirely about the end of suffering.

Not that I believe in reincarnation nor do I think there is any convincing evidence for it. Maybe when you become enlightened suffering will end, but I can't be sure I won't come back. Also I don't know if enlightenment is the truth of existence and not just simply a state brought about by practice. You can shape yourself to it but to me that doesn't tell me anything about reality. I know plenty of people on different paths that lead them to what they believe to be true, I just smile an wave.

I still think death is the only true answer to suffering if your goal is utter peace then the logical conclusion is to wipe out all life to prevent further suffering. Intense? Sure. But so is the goal of peace for all sentient beings.

From what I gather on several Buddhist sites there is no guarantee there is an endless cycle or that the path stops it. Sounds more like just one more thing people believe in. True "liberation" from what I see is wiping everything out so that nothing is left to spawn more living things. Sounds to me like Buddhism invented reincarnation to stop that conclusion. Also depending on what I hear you don't have memories of your previous life in reincarnation. So it's likely you are just wasting your time seeking liberation because the slate gets wiped clean in the next life. It doesn't seem like it has been tested, just asserted.
There is so much basic misunderstanding here of what Buddhism actually teaches, it would take more than one lifetime to clear it all up.
EMPTIFUL.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:11 am
Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm But if there is no self there isn't really anything to reincarnate so death would be the end. Also there isn't really a guarantee that at the end of the path you won't reincarnate again. Buddha was an interesting human, but I wouldn't take his word entirely about the end of suffering.

Not that I believe in reincarnation nor do I think there is any convincing evidence for it. Maybe when you become enlightened suffering will end, but I can't be sure I won't come back. Also I don't know if enlightenment is the truth of existence and not just simply a state brought about by practice. You can shape yourself to it but to me that doesn't tell me anything about reality. I know plenty of people on different paths that lead them to what they believe to be true, I just smile an wave.

I still think death is the only true answer to suffering if your goal is utter peace then the logical conclusion is to wipe out all life to prevent further suffering. Intense? Sure. But so is the goal of peace for all sentient beings.

From what I gather on several Buddhist sites there is no guarantee there is an endless cycle or that the path stops it. Sounds more like just one more thing people believe in. True "liberation" from what I see is wiping everything out so that nothing is left to spawn more living things. Sounds to me like Buddhism invented reincarnation to stop that conclusion. Also depending on what I hear you don't have memories of your previous life in reincarnation. So it's likely you are just wasting your time seeking liberation because the slate gets wiped clean in the next life. It doesn't seem like it has been tested, just asserted.
There is so much basic misunderstanding here of what Buddhism actually teaches, it would take more than one lifetime to clear it all up.

Seconded. A good advertisement for (at the least) reading a basic book on Buddhism before forming a bunch of opinions on it, or writing a bunch of nonsense on it publicly.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Self Defense

Post by Budai »

Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm I still think death is the only true answer to suffering if your goal is utter peace then the logical conclusion is to wipe out all life to prevent further suffering. Intense? Sure. But so is the goal of peace for all sentient beings.
There are a lot of red flags in this statement. I urge you to pursue Buddhism as a Spiritual Path and never give up on trying to find out how to end people's sadness in a Peaceful way, without thinking that any kind of hurt or killing would help them in any way (because such suffering does not bring peace). Instead learn about Buddhism and give people hope in the Dharma. Then you can learn the purpose of defending others and why there are Martial Arts and such and Buddhism's stance on them.
Last edited by Budai on Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm ...
Sounds like you're interested in Buddhism, but don't understand very much of it as of yet. Here are two very good books if you are interested in learning what Buddha taught:

"The Hear of Buddha's Teachings" by Thich Nhat Hanh
"What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula
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Re: Self Defense

Post by LastLegend »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:03 am
Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm ...
Sounds like you're interested in Buddhism, but don't understand very much of it as of yet. Here are two very good books if you are interested in learning what Buddha taught:

"The Hear of Buddha's Teachings" by Thich Nhat Hanh
"What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula
Ahhh...so what have I understood? Honestly very little. I am not even totally clear how aggregates operate! Don’t be surprised it’s because for those who are truly enlightened. We are not yet.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Budai »

LastLegend wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:41 am
SilenceMonkey wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:03 am
Ardha wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:53 pm ...
Sounds like you're interested in Buddhism, but don't understand very much of it as of yet. Here are two very good books if you are interested in learning what Buddha taught:

"The Hear of Buddha's Teachings" by Thich Nhat Hanh
"What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula
Ahhh...so what have I understood? Honestly very little. I am not even totally clear how aggregates operate!
Aren't they based on craving and material lust? The answer is in understanding the Four Noble Truths and following the Noble Eightfold Path. Most Fighting Schools :yinyang: have many practitioners who go there because they thirst for some sort of hidden Spiritual Meaning, sometimes a hidden Buddhism (or Daoism), and though if one is balanced enough or has a good Teacher within the Art they can come to Realizations while practicing Martial Arts and not degrade themselves, but it's much quicker to go directly to the Dharma. SilenceMonkey is providing excellent resources, and I urge anyone to accept them! :meditate:
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Re: Self Defense

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Mechanism of Aggregates...I don’t think so. I love how Nichiren People talk about 3000 worlds lol when we can’t even thoroughly understand our aggregates.
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LastLegend
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Re: Self Defense

Post by LastLegend »

As for self defense I know nothing yo I have a wooden dummy but I am lazy as hell. I stretch and have 5 lb weights :lol: . That’s it.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Self Defense

Post by SilenceMonkey »

LastLegend wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:11 am Mechanism of Aggregates...I don’t think so. I love how Nichiren People talk about 3000 worlds lol when we can’t even thoroughly understand our aggregates.
Well... you could always read about them and see what Buddha says. Then see if you can observe it in your experience.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Budai »

LastLegend wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:38 am As for self defense I know nothing yo I have a wooden dummy but I am lazy as hell. I stretch and have 5 lb weights :lol: . That’s it.
Some people defend themselves and others better by staying out of conflicts their entire lives, than martial arts experts who know how to take down dozens of opponents.
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Re: Self Defense

Post by LastLegend »

The martial Arts is from Shaolin. They have a deadly practice one strike and will die instantly.
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