Dealing with Toxic Relationships

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Post Reply
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

I read something in Lion's Roar (buddhist magazine for those who don't know) about toxic relationships. It was sort of odd in stating that the solution to such a situation was not to leave it, in this example being with parents in a bad dynamic.

I can't say that I agree with what she said about not leaving. I mean you don't have to hate them but sometimes you are better off not hanging onto relationships where you are being harmed regularly, physical or emotional. My guess was that she was getting at staying and trying to fix things but that sounds....ill advised.

I think it would be better to leave and take care of yourself, get into a good place, then maybe re-visit the situation. Yes they are another person too but so are you and you don't have to sit there and take it.

Thoughts?
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Can’t really respond to an article if I can’t see it.

I might hazard a guess here:

It’s very common today for certain segments of the population to kind of armchair pyschologize normal interpersonal conflict into ‘toxicity’ and use it as a reason to cut off contact.

To the extent that happens, I agree with taking other approaches. If someone is actually being abusive, constantly violating clear boundaries etc. that is one thing.

Simply saying someone is engaged in ‘toxic’ behavior because they made us mad is not. Particularly if it serves as an excuse to not learn interpersonal skills.

Like I said though, since there’s no article, it’s pure speculation, based primarily on my own biases towards what I’ve seen from professional experience and observation of acquaintances.

There are definitely times where it’s best to just end things of course.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 3275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
Location: He/Him from EU

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

As Johnny has said, sharing the article would help, so please Ardha share it.

Otherwise, in general. It really depends. I myself am not the right person to talk about this as I am as clumsy in my relationships as one can be. However, I believe it is often better to end it, or turn down the intensity when too many strong negative emotions start to appear, especially in case of vajra relationships. At least to take a breather, step aside, look at it from a distance.

If you start wondering "am I being manipulated", etc. then it is clear the trust has been broken and at least a pause is needed for sure.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9437
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Sometimes responsibilities and other situations make it impossible to leave. Fortunately, Buddhism teaches ways to take everything as path.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

https://www.lionsroar.com/is-it-worth-s ... ationship/

I found it but I still agree.

The situation listed here is I think milder than what I had in mind. What I heard of (in my example) are cases of physical or emotional abuse, where your boundaries don’t even exist and you are sort of expected to provide for them but they won’t for you, etc. In other words truly damaging behaviors.

I get they are people too, I do. But it reminds me of a phrase “don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm”. Some people have reasons for why they cut others out. It honestly reminds me of LGBT people who came out. They left, some were able to reconcile and move on. Others have parents that simply refuse (or they do).
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

I thought the article contained ok advice, given the small amount of information the questioner gave. This person evidently feels that it's been worth keeping lines of communication open with parents, but now wants to shut it down due to arguments. It's possible that there is something more going on, but this person might just be trying to avoid problems by not communicating. That only makes sense if the relationship is actually damaging something. Simply getting annoyed by others behavior is par for the course of human relationships.

"It feels kind of toxic" doesn't really mean anything or tell us much. From what little we can see, it does not sound very serious. It's also the kind of thing people say when they don't really understand what is going on, to be honest. How things "feel" to us at a given time is not always the best roadmap for decisions.

That said, from a counseling point of view, you'd never hand out the kind of advice in the article without getting a lot more information about what was going on. Part of the problem is that we don't know the larger context of the questions being asked.
It honestly reminds me of LGBT people who came out. They left, some were able to reconcile and move on. Others have parents that simply refuse (or they do).
I learned from counseling folks that there is a real spectrum there. Some people maintain relations with parents while the parents still sort of 'pretend' they aren't gay, some refuse to accept this and cut off contact. Still some others criticize other LGBT people for making the decision to continue talking to the "pretending" parents etc..the logic being that they are somehow helping maintain their homophobia.

Not being there myself, I don't know which is correct. I do know that relationships with loved ones are important, and that cutting them off, "canceling" or otherwise ending involvement based on momentary emotional states (rather than long term patterns of malignant behavior, etc.) tends to not have good outcomes for people when we are not talking about an abusive situation, but rather just interpersonal conflict.

The important parts there are -loved ones- (you can define that for yourself) and -no abuse-. Abusive situations obviously one should leave if one can full stop. If we are dealing with people who aren't loved ones and are giving us guff, there is little consequence either way because we have so much less connection in the first place.

Also the word "toxic" is way overused.
The situation listed here is I think milder than what I had in mind. What I heard of (in my example) are cases of physical or emotional abuse, where your boundaries don’t even exist and you are sort of expected to provide for them but they won’t for you, etc. In other words truly damaging behaviors.
Yeah no one should stay in those, but sadly some people are in situations that make them difficult to leave.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
avatamsaka3
Posts: 879
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:11 am

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by avatamsaka3 »

when we are not talking about an abusive situation, but rather just interpersonal conflict.
And the difference is?
Also the word "toxic" is way overused.
Perhaps sometimes. Sometimes it's underused when it should be.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

avatamsaka3 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:04 am
And the difference is?
Beyond the obvious it's usually it's about a huge power differential and constant coercion, among other things.

Perhaps sometimes. Sometimes it's underused when it should be.
I think it's overused and mostly meaningless these days, it's a result of people trying to apply pop-psychology to situations with which they are frustrated. And then of course, some of the time, there is behavior that really is 'toxic'.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

"Toxic" is kind of vague and often I see it used to describe fairly mundane situations. Usually disagreements.

But to me it's the extreme end, like when being around is literally poison to you. But I agree that some instances like that can't be avoided. Some are stuck in them until they can escape, or in the case of some LGBT folks they avoid coming out until they can move out.

Though I am reminded of the marriages where one person is being abused. In such a case yes, leaving is the wisest course of action. It's not on you to "fix them" (which is a damaging attitude I see some times where one person thinks they can fix the other person with their love). From my experience you can only help people who A) want it and B) admit there is an issue. Option B is often the tough part.
shaunc
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by shaunc »

Ardha wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:17 am "Toxic" is kind of vague and often I see it used to describe fairly mundane situations. Usually disagreements.

But to me it's the extreme end, like when being around is literally poison to you. But I agree that some instances like that can't be avoided. Some are stuck in them until they can escape, or in the case of some LGBT folks they avoid coming out until they can move out.

Though I am reminded of the marriages where one person is being abused. In such a case yes, leaving is the wisest course of action. It's not on you to "fix them" (which is a damaging attitude I see some times where one person thinks they can fix the other person with their love). From my experience you can only help people who A) want it and B) admit there is an issue. Option B is often the tough part.
I agree. Toxic is just the latest buzz word. Although there are genuine cases of Toxic relationships, the word is often used because someone didn't get their own way.
User avatar
Budai
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Location: ༀ ∞ Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ∞ ༀ

Re: Dealing with Toxic Relationships

Post by Budai »

I think a decent definition of the word "toxic" in this instance would refer to "dangerous". Physically, emotionally, and Spiritually. And if one is in a dangerous situation they either have to leave the situation or fully circumvent it entirely, creating safety. It's so important to stay safe in today's world, and I urge others to do so, and if there is some danger in one's life then it is important for them to return or move forward to a place that is safe, bringing the present moment there, because human life is priceless, from a fair point of view even the person who is hurting someone else is suffering terribly, even in creating bad karma and a bad moral imprint, of guilt and regret. So it's always important to be in a healthy and healing atmosphere, and create such around others. Best wishes! I hope kindness finds everyone in their lives, and they find the deepest meaning in Buddha's compassion for them, because it is unceasing and has always been there. Om.
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”