Information on Sarasvati

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Fortyeightvows
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Some friends recently visited a Jain temple and took some photos. I thought this one might be of interest to you
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Karinos
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Karinos »

There are several tantric forms of Sarasvati in Tibetan Buddhism, both in Sarma and Terma - to mention few:
- white two armed Vajra Sarasvati from Samputa Tantra,
- white four armed Vajra Sarasvati (Taranatha's Rinjung Gyatsa),
- red two armed Vajra Sarasvati (termas + Shakyasri Bhadra tradition - preserved in Sakyapa),
- red six armed, 3 headed Vajra Saraswati from Krishna Yamari Tantra,
- blue two armed Vajra Saraswati with Manjusri on lion (Tertön Mingyur Dorjé written by Karma Chakmé),
- five forms of Vajra Saraswati (different colours) as retinue of Manjusri on lion (8th Karmapa),

also wrathful emanation of Sarasvati is Vajra Vetali (Dorje Rolangma) - consort of Yamantaka in all Yamantaka tantras,

her wrathful emanation as protector is Palden Lhamo Magzor Gyalmo,

her emanation as worldly protector is Palden Lhamo Ochen Barma



no possible to describe benefits of practicing Vajra Saraswati, every vajrayana student should do that :namaste:
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Karinos wrote:There are several tantric forms of Sarasvati in Tibetan Buddhism, both in Sarma and Terma - to mention few: [...]
- blue two armed Vajra Saraswati with Manjusri on lion (Tertön Mingyur Dorjé written by Karma Chakmé)
Karinos, can you please tell me how you came to know this practice originates with Namchö Tertön Mingyur Dorje? If it's the same sadhana of Jampal Mawa'i Senge I'm thinking about, entitled Dispelling the Darkness of Ignorance, it seems not to be practiced in Palyul. In trying to track down a lama who could give the empowerment, I came to find out that my Palyul lamas didn't know about it. Instead, they mentioned that in Palyul they use the Jampal Mawa'i Senge sadhana composed by Mipham. However, it is one of the main short Manjushri practices in Karma Kagyu (undoubtedly thanks to Karma Chagme).

Also, I don't remember Mingyur Dorje being mentioned in the history of the text, which is included after the practice along with the benefits. IIRC, it comes to us through Padampa Sangye, and eventually to 9th Karmapa Wangchuk Dorje (who compiled it with many other empowerments in the Chikshe Kundröl). Still haven't been able to truly identify the "Gemo Lama" Pema Trinley that Karma Chagme gave it to as a heart practice...
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Karinos
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Karinos »

Hey, don't have text with me atm (I'll check that later for you), but empowerment was given to me/us in Poland by Khenpo Namse Rinpoche in 90ties (former resident in Canada) and we had retreats on this form with him few times until he passed away.
Text is available via http://www.benchen.org.pl/en/


Chikshe Kundröl form is with 4 (or5?) Sarasvatis - so that is completely different sadhana


also FYI there is Dudjom Lingpa terma with actual union yab-yum form of Manjusri and Sarasvati :) very interesting too - but never saw thangka
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Karinos wrote:Hey, don't have text with me atm (I'll check that later for you), but empowerment was given to me/us in Poland by Khenpo Namse Rinpoche in 90ties (former resident in Canada) and we had retreats on this form with him few times until he passed away.
Text is available via http://www.benchen.org.pl/en/
Don't see the sadhana on there under "Dharma for Reading" and "Practice Texts," unless you meant in their online store which is currently only in Polish. Do you have a direct link? I'll have to look up your khenpo. Interesting that he was named after Vaishravana, god of wealth and protector of the North (rnam sras, which comes into play just below).
Chikshe Kundröl form is with 4 (or5?) Sarasvatis - so that is completely different sadhana.
The sadhana I had (ordered from KTD's Namse Bangdzo site) only mentioned Red Manjushri riding a blue lion and Blue Saraswati standing in front of him (yab and yum, though technically not in union), who at some point emanate offering goddesses. No other Saraswatis involved to my knowledge. It also specifically mentions the Chikshe Kundröl and Karma Chagme during the lineage history of sorts under the Benefits section. See this online version (though I prefer Michelle Martin's translation through KTD for reasons I won't go into here).

Could the version you know from the Chikshe Kundröl possibly be different Jampal Mawa'i Senge than the one in the sadhana we're discussing, or perhaps a Senge Dra(drok)? Both are Manjushri riding a lion; the former is Lion of Speech and the latter is Lion's Roar (though Senge Dra is often a red, two-armed Chenrezik confused with Manjushri).
also FYI there is Dudjom Lingpa terma with actual union yab-yum form of Manjusri and Sarasvati :) very interesting too - but never saw thangka
I was unaware of this, so thanks for mentioning. There are specific reasons I'm drawn to the version that Chagme Rinpoche wrote, though this is good to know. I saw an excellent thangka in someone's personal collection. Maybe I'll send you a photo via PM if I'm able to get the owner to send me a pic.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Karinos
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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Karma Jinpa wrote:Don't see the sadhana on there under "Dharma for Reading" and "Practice Texts," unless you meant in their online store which is currently only in Polish. Do you have a direct link? I'll have to look up your khenpo. Interesting that he was named after Vaishravana, god of wealth and protector of the North (rnam sras, which comes into play just below).
You'd need to contact them directly via emai - but from below I think we have the same sadhana actually
You can check info on Khenpo Namse Rinpoche here http://www.ksdl.org/lama.php
Karma Jinpa wrote: The sadhana I had (ordered from KTD's Namse Bangdzo site) only mentioned Red Manjushri riding a blue lion and Blue Saraswati standing in front of him (yab and yum, though technically not in union), who at some point emanate offering goddesses. No other Saraswatis involved to my knowledge. It also specifically mentions the Chikshe Kundröl and Karma Chagme during the lineage history of sorts under the Benefits section
Interesting - I think we may be talking about two different - sorry if I confused - from ChikShie Kyn Drol:
Manjushri with 5 Sarasvatis - Jampal Marser yabyum according to teachings of VIII Karmapa - I'll send you msg with picture with 5 Sarasvatis - it's not on snow lion - mantra here seem the same like in mentioned sadhana

Manjusri on lion Jampel Maseng according to teachings of VI Karmapa

Manjusri on lion Jamepl Senge Dra - no sword or book, just lotus



Karma Jinpa wrote: I was unaware of this, so thanks for mentioning. There are specific reasons I'm drawn to the version that Chagme Rinpoche wrote, though this is good to know. I saw an excellent thangka in someone's personal collection. Maybe I'll send you a photo via PM if I'm able to get the owner to send me a pic.
that'd be great - thank you :)
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by dzogchungpa »

Karinos wrote:also FYI there is Dudjom Lingpa terma with actual union yab-yum form of Manjusri and Sarasvati :) very interesting too - but never saw thangka
I'm interested in this, may I ask what the name of the text or practice is?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Karinos »

Please contact Enrico https://enricokosmus.wordpress.com/
He was preparing translation to German last year for teachings with Lopon Ogyan Tanzin RInpoche
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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Karinos wrote:Please contact Enrico https://enricokosmus.wordpress.com/
He was preparing translation to German last year for teachings with Lopon Ogyan Tanzin RInpoche
for clarification: Loppon Orgyan Tanzin has taught this practice recently (Manjusri/Saraswati yab-yum), and it has been translated in at least one Western language?
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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yes, translated to German. Wang, lung, tri was given by LOTR in Austria summer 2016
Rinpoche explained that sadhana is very close to Karma Chagme text, but is in Dzogchen context
front page says "from collected work of Dudjom Lingpa - volume 15 (ba) page 71-72
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Karinos
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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dzogchungpa wrote:I think this is it:
http://www.tbrc.org/eBooks/W28732-4630-77-78-any.pdf
:namaste: :applause:
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Karinos
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Karinos »

I believe this is thangka for that sadhana :)

http://www.himalayanart.org/items/71210 ... 8,5733,-24
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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Redfaery wrote:Thank you everyone! I normally write poems to her, and after I wrote the last one, I had....an experience. Not sure how to describe it. I just..."got it." Like, I understood EVERYTHING that I'd been trying to figure out from my readings. Then of course, it went away, and I was back to square one...
There is a real contentment to be found. I feel a bit of your identity, of course as we learn, fundamental ignorance is grasping onto that identity and is the core cause of all suffering including the three types of suffering from the first noble truth. So in the interest of your happiness, I will respect your right to happiness and overcoming suffering which hangs on your Buddha nature and lack of independent identity.

With that said, please consider, there is no happy )))). No found no lost.. samadhi reveals the four immeasurables one of which is equinimity. So that is Buddhism.

Then there is enlightenment. That is not Buddhism (see chpt 6 diamond sutra, to cross the river of suffering one must abandoned the dharma used to cross it)
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by pemachophel »

Sorry to tell you but Lamas Dawa is at His home in Boudha, Nepal sick with stage 4 colon cancer. He is only seeing His personal students and friends, not even other Lamas and Tulkus who would like to meet Him.

His brother, Lama Pema Dorje Rinpoche, who lives at least part of the time in Oakland, CA, also received Cho-kyi Go-cha's Saraswati cycle from H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. Also, some of the late Lama Tharchin's students received this cycle from Lama Tharchin who received it from Lama Sherab Dorje. I've also heard that this cycle is still practiced in Amdo where Cho-kyi Go-cha was from.

Good luck & best wishes.
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Pasquale5k »

Situ Rinpoche gave
an initiation on the Orange/red Manjushri on a Blue Lion, with consort blue Saraswati. Does any one know how to find more information. I received the Empowerment, but it was many years ago.
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

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Pasquale5k wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am Situ Rinpoche gave an initiation on the Orange/red Manjushri on a Blue Lion, with consort blue Saraswati. Does any one know how to find more information. I received the Empowerment, but it was many years ago.
As information about this specific empowerment and its sadhana have been of particular interest to me, I will gladly share with you what I've learned.

The empowerment itself is to be found mainly in the 9th Karmapa's collection of 100 empowerments known as Chikshe Kundröl ("Knowing One Liberates All"), and thus it is held mainly by Kagyupas as far as I could tell.

According to the praise written by the 1st Karma Chagme Rinpoche which procedes the ritual practice itself, this form of Manjushri not the usual orange/red that we often see depicted in thangkas, but rather ruby red in color, denoting his inseparability with Buddha Amitabha. Also worth noting is that the visualization includes the consort of blue Sarasvati, but rather than being in tantric union as is most typical she stands in front of Manjushri astride the lion. The lion is often made white in thangkas and initiation cards (perhaps due to the Tibetans' connection to the snow lion as their state symbol), but in the sadhana itself it is said to be blue.

As for where one can find the sadhana and commentary, due to your connection to Tai Situ Rinpoche I would point you to KTD's bookstore: https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Manjushri_ ... /13429.htm
(http://www.namsebangdzo.com/mobile/Prod ... Code=13429 if you're on a mobile device)

There you will find the pecha for a very reasonable price, and even a free audio commentary available to download. Though the pecha itself has the title simply as A Short Manjushri Sadhana in English on the cover (in the Tibetan it doesn't even say it's short!), rest assured that it is the right text... the sadhana of Manjushri that Dispels the Darkness of Ignorance. The proper name for this form of Manjushri in Tibetan is Jampal (or Jamyang) Mawa'i Senge (Jampal/Jamyang Maseng for short), most often translated as "Manjushri, the Lion of Speech."

Lastly, if you have any karmic connection with the lineages of Chöd or Shijé, this was the main yidam practice of Phadampa Sangye as mentioned in his spiritual biography or namthar (and indeed, Phadampa Sangye is mentioned in the history included within the sadhana linked above). If you look at the refuge tree for Chöd, Manjushri on the lion is always included above and to the right of Phadampa Sangye off to Machik Labdrön's right side, as seen here (though almost never depicted in the correct colors according to the actual sadhana):
https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=2213

Lion of Speech Manjushri is mentioned specifically in the Long Sutra Lineage of Chöd, just after Buddha Shakyamuni and before Green Tara, and it is most likely this same form being mentioned in the other Chöd lineages (Long Mantra and Absolute Meaning). See Chöd Practice Manual and Commentary by the 14th Karmapa and 1st Jamgön Kongtrul for more if you're interested in such things.

Hopefully this has helped somewhat in giving you the additional info you were seeking...
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by dzogchungpa »

Palzang Jangchub wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:16 amAs for where one can find the sadhana and commentary, due to your connection to Tai Situ Rinpoche I would point you to KTD's bookstore: https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Manjushri_ ... /13429.htm
(http://www.namsebangdzo.com/mobile/Prod ... Code=13429 if you're on a mobile device)

There you will find the pecha for a very reasonable price, and even a free audio commentary available to download.

I don't seem to be able to download the commentary.

Also, it appears that that sadhana is available online here:
https://www.wisdomcompassion.org/manjushrisadhana
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Information on Sarasvati

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

dzogchungpa wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:29 pm I don't seem to be able to download the commentary.

Also, it appears that that sadhana is available online here:
https://www.wisdomcompassion.org/manjushrisadhana
Can you not find it, or is there some other problem with the download process? It should be an audio file. If you want to PM me your contact info I can see about sending you the file if you'd like.

Thank you for bringing this site to our attention! It appears to have texts from not only Karma Kagyu, but also Drikung Kagyu and Nyingma (as well as others I'm not as familiar with). I can't help but wonder if it's maintained by someone in the Drikung Dharma Surya sangha in the D.C. area founded by Garchen Rinpoche, as they invite lamas from many traditions on a regular basis and they are predominantly Vietnamese.

The praise/supplication by Karma Chagme that I mentioned earlier is also on their site, though it has been put on a separate page here: https://www.wisdomcompassion.org/lionofspeech. In the pecha it is inserted before the sadhana proper, if memory serves. I like that they include pics of the original text for those who care to have the Tibetan or like the pecha format, though I'm not sure how thrilled KTD would be about it...
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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