Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Heimdall
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Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Heimdall »

After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become the Buddha and mock Brahma for being an ignoramus, looking down on him smiling.

But the truth is, I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, nor have I really cared. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it. Seriously. As such, I was, in reality, going down a very sinister path - perhaps a "Luciferian" path (where in my mind, I am god above everyone).


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Pali Long Discourses show the Buddha engaging with petty dominance disputes. Is the Buddha lower than the Brahmin caste, or higher because of his warrior caste? Does he have the 32 marks including handsome, blue eyes, and beautiful feet marks? Does he have power over celestial beings?

It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
Bristollad
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Bristollad »

Because dominating others is not conducive to liberation from suffering for you or for others.

Stop doing that which brings suffering to yourself or others.
Start doing that which brings happiness to yourself and others.
Cleanse yourself of the three poisons of desire, anger and ignorance that interfere with those goals.
This is what the Buddha teaches.

If your current activities don't match then you're not practising what the Buddha taught.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

The answer is pretty simple. Part of the reason that things are as shitty as they are is that samsara revolves around attachment, aversion and ignorance. "dominance" as you mean it here involves all three I think.

So, you can in fact keep relying on being dominant and it might get you some success in this life, but in the long run it's just more suffering.
And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!
Go look at a thangka of the wheel of samsara, you are describing it. Because people do things out of habit in no way means they are desirable, and it often means the opposite.

So the gist is, if you want to just keep doing what you are doing...keep doing what you are doing.

As the Lojong slogans say though, don't expect applause;)...this is a deeper teaching than you might think.
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Dan74 »

If you really never experienced true kindness and unconditional love, then it may be hard to fathom that it is even possible. Though some people are born and are raised in absolute hellholes and still manage to develop into kind and compassionate human beings.

I guess my point is that we are capable of the whole range of it and it's up to us what we choose to nourish and what we choose to turn away from. You and I might have tiny seeds of goodness in us. But if we turn wholeheartedly towards them, water them with commitment and effort, they will grow.

Life can be a rat-race or it can be much more than that. It's our choice.
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?
Unconditional love and unbiased (universal) compassion are two totally different things.
Be careful not to mix them up.
You can completely despise someone and still develop compassion for them.
Compassion in Buddhism comes from an understanding of suffering and it’s causes, and understanding that everyone wallows in the same ignorance, with the same basic desire to be free from suffering.
You can hate the spiders that show up in the bathtub, and still feel compassion for their miserable state of being.
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by KristenM »

When you ask why not value domination over compassion, maybe because that’s what’s gotten us sentient beings into samsara in the first place. True compassion, as I understand, is based on understanding the empty nature of all compounded things. Not some “quid pro quo” ideology, or being “nice” simply because others are kind to you first. Then, ultimately you are not in need of affirmations from others, even begrudgingly. And extending a hand or being a friend comes from a genuine place of nonattachment and compassion.
Heimdall
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Heimdall »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 pm
Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?
Unconditional love and unbiased (universal) compassion are two totally different things.
Be careful not to mix them up.
You can completely despise someone and still develop compassion for them.
Compassion in Buddhism comes from an understanding of suffering and it’s causes, and understanding that everyone wallows in the same ignorance, with the same basic desire to be free from suffering.
You can hate the spiders that show up in the bathtub, and still feel compassion for their miserable state of being.
We're allowed to despite people?
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Jesse »

Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become the Buddha and mock Brahma for being an ignoramus, looking down on him smiling.

But the truth is, I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, nor have I really cared. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it. Seriously. As such, I was, in reality, going down a very sinister path - perhaps a "Luciferian" path (where in my mind, I am god above everyone).


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Pali Long Discourses show the Buddha engaging with petty dominance disputes. Is the Buddha lower than the Brahmin caste, or higher because of his warrior caste? Does he have the 32 marks including handsome, blue eyes, and beautiful feet marks? Does he have power over celestial beings?

It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
TharpaChodron wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:59 pm True compassion, as I understand, is based on understanding the empty nature of all compounded things. Not some “quid pro quo” ideology, or being “nice” simply because others are kind to you first. Then, ultimately you are not in need of affirmations from others, even begrudgingly. And extending a hand or being a friend comes from a genuine place of nonattachment and compassion.
^ This is it exactly.

True selfless compassion, in my experience comes from understanding. Your disappointment after perceiving the flaws of samsaric life is justifiable. I'm afraid you've come to the wrong conclusions about how to deal with it though.

I will make a statement in clear terms: It is impossible for the I-centered, discriminating, conceptualizing mind to be motivated by, or act based on anything other than delusion. You pointed this out aptly; when doing 'good' (or 'bad') we are motivated by feelings, thoughts, and emotions which are based in delusion. They are based in duality, ego, clinging.

Seeing this, one might assume that practice is pointless. That true selfless compassion is impossible. It is not. I said selfless compassion is based on understanding. What is that understanding? Buddhism points it out quite clearly: Emptiness, The middle way, right intention, right motivation, right view, right action, etc.. It can take a long time to begin getting these thing's right, but when you finally do obtain the ultimate clarity, you will be flabbergasted.

I spent many years thinking the very same things. "If every good act can only be motivated by selfish intentions, then it's not true good, and there is no difference between doing good, or evil, at least by being evil I can get what I want."

Hell realms await you with that thought process. Rebirth in those realms will give you a good lesson in why it's still better to choose kind acts over evil ones. Even when our kindness is based in selfishness and delusion, those kind acts generate good karma, and good karma is much more likely to result in awakening than 'bad' karma. Both good and bad karma are ultimately hindrances, but bad karma is far far worse. Good karma can become the conditions to awaken. Rebirth in the hell realms is a real rebirth, and it is one of the most pitiable, painful experiences you will ever have.
I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally.
When you develop compassion, and practice the Dharma you will eventually run into unconditional compassion; to be more accurate you will become aware of it. When unconditional compassion is expressed for others, it simultaneously embraces you. That is what unconditional compassion is. Giving is receiving, receiving is giving. Giving becomes an inexhaustible source of joy and happiness, the more you give, the more you receive. Unconditioned happiness/compassion exists, and Buddhist practice is giving you the means to realize it.

I wanted to add, you have received unconditional compassion, it is present right now, unaware to you; you have by no coincidence stumbled onto the Buddhist path, therein lies the best sort of compassion, while we typically seek simple acts of kindness that make us feel better, or give us a sense of positive emotion; what you have received by coming into contact with the Dharma far exceeds that, and one day you will realize it.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Heimdall wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:35 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 pm
Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?
Unconditional love and unbiased (universal) compassion are two totally different things.
Be careful not to mix them up.
You can completely despise someone and still develop compassion for them.
Compassion in Buddhism comes from an understanding of suffering and it’s causes, and understanding that everyone wallows in the same ignorance, with the same basic desire to be free from suffering.
You can hate the spiders that show up in the bathtub, and still feel compassion for their miserable state of being.
We're allowed to despite people?
It’s better to develop loving kindness towards others instead of hatred and general aversion. But compassion can be there at the same time as other states of mind.

Ideally we should transform all of it into love and compassion, no?
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Heimdall wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:35 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 pm
Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?
Unconditional love and unbiased (universal) compassion are two totally different things.
Be careful not to mix them up.
You can completely despise someone and still develop compassion for them.
Compassion in Buddhism comes from an understanding of suffering and it’s causes, and understanding that everyone wallows in the same ignorance, with the same basic desire to be free from suffering.
You can hate the spiders that show up in the bathtub, and still feel compassion for their miserable state of being.
We're allowed to despite people?
“Allowed” by who?
There are always going to be people you like and people you don’t like.

That doesn’t have anything to do with wishing them to be free from torment, unhappiness, and confusion.
If anything, once you realize that the actions committed by people you don’t like are done so precisely because they are tormented and confused, then that’s all the more reason to want them to be free from that torment, suffering, and confusion.
EMPTIFUL.
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm
So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
Put plainly... because that mindset makes us suffer.

Judging others may make us think we are superior. But will it bring us happiness?
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by KristenM »

Jesse wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:50 am
Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become the Buddha and mock Brahma for being an ignoramus, looking down on him smiling.

But the truth is, I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, nor have I really cared. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it. Seriously. As such, I was, in reality, going down a very sinister path - perhaps a "Luciferian" path (where in my mind, I am god above everyone).


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Pali Long Discourses show the Buddha engaging with petty dominance disputes. Is the Buddha lower than the Brahmin caste, or higher because of his warrior caste? Does he have the 32 marks including handsome, blue eyes, and beautiful feet marks? Does he have power over celestial beings?

It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
TharpaChodron wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:59 pm True compassion, as I understand, is based on understanding the empty nature of all compounded things. Not some “quid pro quo” ideology, or being “nice” simply because others are kind to you first. Then, ultimately you are not in need of affirmations from others, even begrudgingly. And extending a hand or being a friend comes from a genuine place of nonattachment and compassion.
^ This is it exactly.

True selfless compassion, in my experience comes from understanding. Your disappointment after perceiving the flaws of samsaric life is justifiable. I'm afraid you've come to the wrong conclusions about how to deal with it though.

I will make a statement in clear terms: It is impossible for the I-centered, discriminating, conceptualizing mind to be motivated by, or act based on anything other than delusion. You pointed this out aptly; when doing 'good' (or 'bad') we are motivated by feelings, thoughts, and emotions which are based in delusion. They are based in duality, ego, clinging.

Seeing this, one might assume that practice is pointless. That true selfless compassion is impossible. It is not. I said selfless compassion is based on understanding. What is that understanding? Buddhism points it out quite clearly: Emptiness, The middle way, right intention, right motivation, right view, right action, etc.. It can take a long time to begin getting these thing's right, but when you finally do obtain the ultimate clarity, you will be flabbergasted.

I spent many years thinking the very same things. "If every good act can only be motivated by selfish intentions, then it's not true good, and there is no difference between doing good, or evil, at least by being evil I can get what I want."

Hell realms await you with that thought process. Rebirth in those realms will give you a good lesson in why it's still better to choose kind acts over evil ones. Even when our kindness is based in selfishness and delusion, those kind acts generate good karma, and good karma is much more likely to result in awakening than 'bad' karma. Both good and bad karma are ultimately hindrances, but bad karma is far far worse. Good karma can become the conditions to awaken. Rebirth in the hell realms is a real rebirth, and it is one of the most pitiable, painful experiences you will ever have.
I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally.
When you develop compassion, and practice the Dharma you will eventually run into unconditional compassion; to be more accurate you will become aware of it. When unconditional compassion is expressed for others, it simultaneously embraces you. That is what unconditional compassion is. Giving is receiving, receiving is giving. Giving becomes an inexhaustible source of joy and happiness, the more you give, the more you receive. Unconditioned happiness/compassion exists, and Buddhist practice is giving you the means to realize it.

I wanted to add, you have received unconditional compassion, it is present right now, unaware to you; you have by no coincidence stumbled onto the Buddhist path, therein lies the best sort of compassion, while we typically seek simple acts of kindness that make us feel better, or give us a sense of positive emotion; what you have received by coming into contact with the Dharma far exceeds that, and one day you will realize it.
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Learn what compassion means, first, in the Buddha's terms. That way, it's joined with wisdom and a beneficent attitude.

And it's basically to avoid problems, and live a life conducive to Dharma practice. Why? To awaken and save all sentient beings along the way, in your time and place.

Shantao wrote that all our good acts are poisoned by selfish intent.
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by yinyangkoi »

Do you do any meditation?
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Queequeg »

Jeez. Thinking way too much.

You said yourself your gangly, ugly, and just kind of smart.

You'll lose that domination game. That's why you shouldn't bother. The best you can hope for is to be a miserable petty tyrant that no one in your little universe likes.

Nasty, brutish and short. No one wins in that game.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Queequeg
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Queequeg »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:05 pm Jeez. Thinking way too much.

You said yourself your gangly, ugly, and just kind of smart.

You'll lose that domination game. That's why you shouldn't bother. The best you can hope for is to be a miserable petty tyrant that no one in your little universe likes.

Nasty, brutish and short. No one wins in that game.
Also, since you're asking this question, it shows you have scruples and so are not suited for that game.

Look deep inside yourself, beyond the instinctual fight or flight impulses, and you will find more to yourself than the petty impulses.

"Luminous, monks!"
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by seeker242 »

Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
Because doing so does nothing but create unnecessary suffering and it's just foolish to unnecessarily create suffering. Spending your life fighting for dominance is a miserable life. That is slavery of mind. Why enslave yourself to a miserable life? That doesn't make sense.
Metta cetovimutti — universal love leading to liberation of mind — signifies the attainment of samadhi, absorption based upon meditation on metta. Since metta liberates the mind from the bondage of hatred and anger, selfishness, greed and delusion, it constitutes a state of liberation. Every time one practices metta, for however short a period, one enjoys a measure of freedom of mind. Measureless freedom of mind, however, is to be expected only when metta is fully developed into samadhi.
~ Metta
The Philosophy and Practice of Universal Love
by
Acharya Buddharakkhita
What is better? Freedom of mind or slavery of mind? Although, if you don't care about being a slave, then yea it doesn't really matter. :meditate:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
Natan
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by Natan »

Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become the Buddha and mock Brahma for being an ignoramus, looking down on him smiling.

But the truth is, I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, nor have I really cared. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it. Seriously. As such, I was, in reality, going down a very sinister path - perhaps a "Luciferian" path (where in my mind, I am god above everyone).


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God, the Dharma, the Jade Emperor, etc. told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Pali Long Discourses show the Buddha engaging with petty dominance disputes. Is the Buddha lower than the Brahmin caste, or higher because of his warrior caste? Does he have the 32 marks including handsome, blue eyes, and beautiful feet marks? Does he have power over celestial beings?

It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
Because people are never convinced of anything at the crack of a whip.
muni
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Re: Why should I show unconditional compassion instead of dominance?

Post by muni »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:19 am
Heimdall wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 pm
So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?
Put plainly... because that mindset makes us suffer.

Judging others may make us think we are superior. But will it bring us happiness?
It could bring some kind of satisfaction like a drug and so it need to be repeated. It is a suffering state. I thought mastering own mind is the Buddhas' teaching, not mastering 'the world'.
I do not know how there can be dominance and Compassion. Dominance and pity perhaps, but that is said to be delusion.
Guru Rinpoche said 'looking down on others' causes own downfall.
TharpaChodron wrote:
True compassion, as I understand, is based on understanding the empty nature of all compounded things. Not some “quid pro quo” ideology, or being “nice” simply because others are kind to you first. Then, ultimately you are not in need of affirmations from others, even begrudgingly. And extending a hand or being a friend comes from a genuine place of nonattachment and compassion.
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