Wanting and Suffering

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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LastLegend
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by LastLegend »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm
LastLegend wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:57 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:51 pm

He's asking in a Buddhist forum, so we can presume he's soliciting a Buddhist perspective on his dilemma. If all he wants is tips on being a rapture engineer, there are better places.
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Nothing you can understand!
It’s eye blinking.
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Queequeg
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by Queequeg »

LastLegend wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:11 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm
LastLegend wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:57 pm

What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Nothing you can understand!
Well, with you, that goes without saying. :rolling:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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LastLegend
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by LastLegend »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:12 pm
LastLegend wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:11 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm

What are you talking about?
Nothing you can understand!
Well, with you, that goes without saying. :rolling:
I am impressed. Congratulations!
It’s eye blinking.
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LastLegend
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by LastLegend »

Just to clarify samadhi at awareness does bring great serene and blissful feeling.
It’s eye blinking.
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LastLegend
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by LastLegend »

I am not even sure how to describe the feelings (because :lol: there are many alike)...it’s just super light and comfortable...my teacher said it’s because the intention (in form of grasping) doesn’t arise, then thoughts don’t also follow. That’s how it is in meditation. Intention draws karma from memories from experience.
It’s eye blinking.
terrybodi
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by terrybodi »

my intention with Buddhism is essentially to just be a better person. i dont know if i'll ever be hardcore enough to achieve enlightenment. ive did some things to try and alleviate desire. i started by getting rid of the dating websites. all they bring is trouble it seems. im trying my best to make changes more in line with the dharma. become a person im more proud of. looking back my original post did have some of desperation in it. i think if i had a better meditation regiment maybe controlling my thoughts would be easier or id have more insight.no one ever really showed me how to meditate effectively, sort of made it up as i went. i appreciate everything you guys are doing for me. i dont have much for support in my home town unfortunately. unless your a roman catholic everyone here things your into a terrorist cult or something.
Ardha
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by Ardha »

terrybodi wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:02 pm my intention with Buddhism is essentially to just be a better person. i dont know if i'll ever be hardcore enough to achieve enlightenment. ive did some things to try and alleviate desire. i started by getting rid of the dating websites. all they bring is trouble it seems. im trying my best to make changes more in line with the dharma. become a person im more proud of. looking back my original post did have some of desperation in it. i think if i had a better meditation regiment maybe controlling my thoughts would be easier or id have more insight.no one ever really showed me how to meditate effectively, sort of made it up as i went. i appreciate everything you guys are doing for me. i dont have much for support in my home town unfortunately. unless your a roman catholic everyone here things your into a terrorist cult or something.
I think the thing is the approach you take. Dating sites are a tool as much as anything else and tools are based on how the user operates them. Advice on them is to be clear and direct about what you are looking for.

As for dating the phrase goes "desperation is a stinky perfume", people can smell it a mile away.

And relationships are complex. It's not about two halves, it's two people sharing their lives with each other. They each are whole and can be ok apart and still want each other. It's not something you "get" (as was said before), such a mentality is like a dog chasing its tail, it won't know what to do when it gets it. Same thing happens when you rush into one, then you see what it's actually about and how little prepared you are.

I would liken it to a living thing. It grows and develops over time, as do the people in it. In my view it can be a good lesson about how people change and shows what love actually is like instead of the romantic version you see on tv or other media.
Passing By
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by Passing By »

anagarika wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:33 pm Well this is a tricky one indeed... I hope it won't be interpreted as a heresy when I write that for some people a certain amount of samsaric experience might be a prerequisite to sincere practice. I know exactly what your dilemma is.

When I was younger I had great difficulties sorting this out. I wanted to practice, I knew intelectually that wanting is suffering, but it was not embodied knowledge, it was just a concept. I just felt not wanting girls was too much to ask from myself back then. I had to see for myself whether sensual pleasures really are ultimately unsatisfactory. So I dedicated some five or six years to a not so much a hedonistic rather than a scientific survey of the sense sphere. This was not limited to girls only but to senses in general. My aim was to deconstruct sensory experience and grasp its inner dynamics. The deeper I delved into the pleasant sensations, the more I started noticing their drawbacks and flaws. Ultimately the complexity of the experience grew so much that it became very tiring and also frustrating when things were not going right. I got so disgusted with samsaric pleasures that I had to conclude that Buddha was 100% right in everything he said about sense desire. Now I knew for myself and the first hand experience became the rock-solid basis for my practice. Having directly known the limitations of sensual experience, I naturally started to gravitate towards that which is beyond senses.

I don't preach this as a universal guide since everyone is different, but I reckon intelectual or analytical types may benefit from this approach. Those with strong saddha can probably avoid these unnecessary digressions, but as for myself I don't think I could have succeeded without direct empirical knowledge of the senses...
So your answer is......the other extreme? ie aversion?
terrybodi wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:02 pm my intention with Buddhism is essentially to just be a better person. i dont know if i'll ever be hardcore enough to achieve enlightenment. ive did some things to try and alleviate desire. i started by getting rid of the dating websites. all they bring is trouble it seems. im trying my best to make changes more in line with the dharma. become a person im more proud of. looking back my original post did have some of desperation in it. i think if i had a better meditation regiment maybe controlling my thoughts would be easier or id have more insight.no one ever really showed me how to meditate effectively, sort of made it up as i went. i appreciate everything you guys are doing for me. i dont have much for support in my home town unfortunately. unless your a roman catholic everyone here things your into a terrorist cult or something.

@OP, the Buddhist answer is not a black or white "grab it all" or "renounce and dump everything as filthy" approach but to see the empty yet clear nature of things so you can both enjoy but not be ensnared by concepts and phenomena. It's called the Middle Way for a reason. If pleasurable situations arise, great! If not, it's fine also, since you see each moment as energetic illusory display of your own nature. Painful circumstances arise, very tough but since you can see how it's illusory you won't add fuel to the fire so to speak and can better endure it.

And let's be honest here. Amputating your ability to feel and experience certain emotions is not going to be healthy for yourself as a person

Look for some teachings into seeing the nature of your mind, whether tantra, zen or otherwise where you can apply them whenever obstacles arise. I know I need them plenty in my own life as well.

On a practical level, just relax into it. Don't push it....such things sort themselves out naturally in the end. You want a healthy relationship where both people are happy and can grow with each other in loving warmth through all the ups and downs, not a trophy that you soon grow tired of and discard. This applies to non-romantic relationships too such as friends. In fact try starting out as friends first, contrary to all that friendzone nonsense. You may even find a real friend to be more of a solid support than someone you chase after purely for "bagging as a relationship goal." Someone you can totally open up to and vent with and who listens....who needs a romance partner after that? And if it goes deeper....good for you
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm
LastLegend wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:57 pmWhat are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
what are you talking about?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
anagarika
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by anagarika »

Passing By wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:55 pm

So your answer is......the other extreme? ie aversion?
No, my answer is samvega.

You might find this link useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83vega

To quote Thanissaro Bhikku:
The oppressive sense of shock, dismay, and alienation that come with realizing the futility and meaninglessness of life as it's normally lived; a chastening sense of our own complacency and foolishness in having let ourselves live so blindly; and an anxious sense of urgency in trying to find a way out of the meaningless cycle.
Passing By
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by Passing By »

anagarika wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:16 am
Passing By wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:55 pm

So your answer is......the other extreme? ie aversion?
No, my answer is samvega.

You might find this link useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83vega

To quote Thanissaro Bhikku:
The oppressive sense of shock, dismay, and alienation that come with realizing the futility and meaninglessness of life as it's normally lived; a chastening sense of our own complacency and foolishness in having let ourselves live so blindly; and an anxious sense of urgency in trying to find a way out of the meaningless cycle.
Correct. Thus, disgust isn't the appropriate word since it implies revulsion and aversion towards something. It's more like realizing something's not healthy and some correction is needed rather than vomiting and turning your back on everything you have a connection to forever
anagarika
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by anagarika »

Passing By wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 4:00 pm
anagarika wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:16 am
Passing By wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:55 pm

So your answer is......the other extreme? ie aversion?
No, my answer is samvega.

You might find this link useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83vega

To quote Thanissaro Bhikku:
The oppressive sense of shock, dismay, and alienation that come with realizing the futility and meaninglessness of life as it's normally lived; a chastening sense of our own complacency and foolishness in having let ourselves live so blindly; and an anxious sense of urgency in trying to find a way out of the meaningless cycle.
Correct. Thus, disgust isn't the appropriate word since it implies revulsion and aversion towards something. It's more like realizing something's not healthy and some correction is needed rather than vomiting and turning your back on everything you have a connection to forever
It might be a bit expressive, but "oppressive sense of shock, dismay, and alienation" and "anxious sense of urgency" sounds rather harsh too. But technically, of course you are right - aversion is not what I meant.
Ardha
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Re: Wanting and Suffering

Post by Ardha »

anagarika wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:16 am
Passing By wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:55 pm

So your answer is......the other extreme? ie aversion?
No, my answer is samvega.

You might find this link useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83vega

To quote Thanissaro Bhikku:
The oppressive sense of shock, dismay, and alienation that come with realizing the futility and meaninglessness of life as it's normally lived; a chastening sense of our own complacency and foolishness in having let ourselves live so blindly; and an anxious sense of urgency in trying to find a way out of the meaningless cycle.
Sounds like an extreme response to this and ignorant as well. It’s not living blindly, it’s clearly something he’s missing.
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