Chöd dance
Chöd dance
Hello,
I thought I had asked here before, but I did a search and it doesn’t look like it.
I’m wondering if anyone does dance (Cham?) with their chöd. If so, are these dances specific to certain lineages and teachers or are they fairly common?
I’ve learned three types of Chöd from about four teachers and the dance was never taught (except once, to say that some people do it but we’re not doing it) and one teacher I reached out had heard of it but, despite quite a lot of chöd specialization, had never learned it.
I thought I had asked here before, but I did a search and it doesn’t look like it.
I’m wondering if anyone does dance (Cham?) with their chöd. If so, are these dances specific to certain lineages and teachers or are they fairly common?
I’ve learned three types of Chöd from about four teachers and the dance was never taught (except once, to say that some people do it but we’re not doing it) and one teacher I reached out had heard of it but, despite quite a lot of chöd specialization, had never learned it.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Chöd dance
I believe there's a Chöd cham in the Longchen Nyingthig? Not 100% sure though.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
Re: Chöd dance
Yes, there are dances specific for lineages, but it is surprising how few people seem to do them nowadays.
- Kim O'Hara
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Re: Chöd dance
There's quite a long description in Magic and Mystery in Tibet https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=36798, if you're interested enough to track it down.
Kim
Kim
Re: Chöd dance
Oh thanks. I have it, but I haven't read it for years and year, I'll check it out.Kim O'Hara wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am There's quite a long description in Magic and Mystery in Tibet https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=36798, if you're interested enough to track it down.
Kim
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Chöd dance
Interesting.
Do you, or does anyone else, know if this is something that could be taught relatively freely?
For example, I have learned the Longchen Nyingthig Chod; if I found a group that practiced the cham would it be likely that they would teach me, or is it a more closed practice for smaller group insiders?
(I know the answer is probably that it depends and that I should find a group and ask, but in case any had a general sense).
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Chöd dance
Lama Wangdu Rinpoche still teaches the Cham quite a bit.
Re: Chöd dance
Thank you.YesheDronmar wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 am Lama Wangdu Rinpoche still teaches the Cham quite a bit.
It looks like he is in retreat currently and not teaching, but I subscribed to his e-mail list so hopefully I'll get updates in the future.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Chöd dance
Follow up question for anyone who might know,
Does the dance require it's own special transmission, or is it open to anyone who has received the related chod practice?
For example, if I found a student of Lama Wangdu's who was willing to teach me the dance over zoom (not that I have, just theoretically), would that be legit or would it require Lama Wangdu's specific transmission.
The only dance I have any connection to is ChNN's vajra dance, which requires trasmission from ChNN but then is taught via his authorized vajra dance teachers. IDK if that is normal regarding cham or not.
Does the dance require it's own special transmission, or is it open to anyone who has received the related chod practice?
For example, if I found a student of Lama Wangdu's who was willing to teach me the dance over zoom (not that I have, just theoretically), would that be legit or would it require Lama Wangdu's specific transmission.
The only dance I have any connection to is ChNN's vajra dance, which requires trasmission from ChNN but then is taught via his authorized vajra dance teachers. IDK if that is normal regarding cham or not.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Chöd dance
IME, one of the reasons that the chod dance(s) aren't done so much is that most people these days practice chod in their shrinerooms. For instance, it's a common practice at the end of the evening session when in retreat. The chod dance that I know about is for taming the place where one is going to practice chod when doing chod out in the wild, like in a 108 charnel grounds or springs retreat/pilgrimage. The liturgy that goes along with this dance in Longchen Nyingthig is given in Khandro Gad-jang. But, as said above, most people today just sing this liturgy while seated and visualize the dance.
As mentioned above, Lama Wangdu is THE Teacher for this practice. However, I have also seen Gochen Tulku Sang-ngag do a chod dance when approaching a chod practice site in the wild. So you could potentially ask Him to teach this. Tulku Sang-ngag Rinpoche did do the 108 charnel ground retreat when He was young after being released from jail during the Cultural Revolution.
As mentioned above, Lama Wangdu is THE Teacher for this practice. However, I have also seen Gochen Tulku Sang-ngag do a chod dance when approaching a chod practice site in the wild. So you could potentially ask Him to teach this. Tulku Sang-ngag Rinpoche did do the 108 charnel ground retreat when He was young after being released from jail during the Cultural Revolution.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: Chöd dance
Oh very interesting, thank you. I had assumed that the dance was just a way of more fully engaging with the sadhana, I didn’t realize it had its own specific intention (although, in hindsight, i probably should have).pemachophel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:36 pm IME, one of the reasons that the chod dance(s) aren't done so much is that most people these days practice chod in their shrinerooms. For instance, it's a common practice at the end of the evening session when in retreat. The chod dance that I know about is for taming the place where one is going to practice chod when doing chod out in the wild, like in a 108 charnel grounds or springs retreat/pilgrimage. The liturgy that goes along with this dance in Longchen Nyingthig is given in Khandro Gad-jang. But, as said above, most people today just sing this liturgy while seated and visualize the dance.
As mentioned above, Lama Wangdu is THE Teacher for this practice. However, I have also seen Gochen Tulku Sang-ngag do a chod dance when approaching a chod practice site in the wild. So you could potentially ask Him to teach this. Tulku Sang-ngag Rinpoche did do the 108 charnel ground retreat when He was young after being released from jail during the Cultural Revolution.
It sounds like keeping an eye out for Lama Wangdu to come out of retreat is the way to go for me.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Chöd dance
Lama Sonam of the Chagdud centers used to teach dance. That was decades ago, though.
Re: Chöd dance
Yeah I agree, it’s a great observation, but not to be dabbled with purely out of curiosity.pemachophel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:36 pm The chod dance that I know about is for taming the place where one is going to practice chod when doing chod out in the wild, like in a 108 charnel grounds or springs retreat/pilgrimage. The liturgy that goes along with this dance in Longchen Nyingthig is given in Khandro Gad-jang. But, as said above, most people today just sing this liturgy while seated and visualize the dance.
I think that’s all I could really say.
Lama dance is a communication and language all of its own.
Same with Kilaya, or Mahakala
it’s powerful stuff and the movements and foot placements are pretty specific. Something someone really needs to understand. A lot of energy being thrown around.
I’ll add a caveat..
I’ve done this personally myself...
It subdues negative energies and harmonizes the elements and environment...but still
Leave the lama dancing to the lamas.
Re: Chöd dance
Lama-dancing "Cham" is different from the Chod-Dance in nearly every manner
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Re: Chöd dance
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Chöd dance
I know that Lama Wangdu teaches a cham with the Chod and there is a DVD which you can find on eBay which sort of shows how it is performed. Search for Lama Wangdu Chod DVD and it should come up in an eBay search if the item is still available.