Zen beliefs.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Zen beliefs.

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

again:

At this point I am going to ask that the OP bring up exactly what they object to about Zen teachings on non-duality, not self-etc. specifically. This is turning circular and silly, and if the OP wants to explore these teachings this way, then specific criticism of doctrines, practices, etc. is needed to go further, preferably with examples of the writings or teachings, and explanation of why the OP thinks they are a problem.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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LastLegend
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Re: Zen beliefs.

Post by LastLegend »

Zenny wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:48 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:47 pm
This is just ad homineum and venting.
How about explaining who experienced no self. Was it me?
You literally just described a practice at the heart of Buddhism...when you look for "me", you can't find "me", it just seems to be there, but is not upon examination.
Seems clear this is an inference,not an experience.
Every experience is accompanied by the feeling of its being mine.
Who is it that eats and benefits from food? Without individuality you cannot make sense of your surroundings.
Is it nor true that we can distinguish between the pain of ourselves and others? We can also distinguish between a tree and ourselves. Or are you saying that all that common sense is untrue?
That’s because skandhas trick us. Sutras say Buddha nature has no form shape appearance whatsoever. No birth no death. What arises in mind is born and born is death then another successive mental event followed.

Off track:
If we designate sweet aroma to women then that’s what you smell. Sorry if I dragged anyone into that. :lol: I try to stay away from women.
It’s eye blinking.
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KeithA
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Re: Zen beliefs.

Post by KeithA »

Zenny wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:19 pm
KeithA wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:01 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 am Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
Hello Zenny,

As a person who has been involved in organized Zen for some years, and is in some small way a cog in all of that, it's been an important part of my practice to remember the Three Jewels (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha). Doing some practice together with other people, and with a good teacher, is what if means to be in a Sangha (from a Zen POV).

Whenever people gather together, rules appear, group tendencies show up, etc. Instead of being obstacles, it can be useful to think of them as grist for the mill of practice. There are things I don't like about the group I practice with. But, they are minor, and also sometimes useful to showing me where I am stuck. I never liked the practice of wearing robes. But, we do, and it really isn't a deal breaker. Babies and bathwater, I guess. More concerning to me is how our group has drifted over the years into left leaning politics, virtue signaling, etc. Now, my personal politics are over near Bernie Sanders somewhere, but politics and religion are almost always a bad mix. This issue is useful for me to look at a little more deeply.

So, what to do. If one doesn't like organized Zen, then don't do it. Just practice alone and see what happens. That's not Zen Buddhism, but it can't hurt.

Organized Zen is neither all good nor all bad. Our ideas and opinions make that. When we put down our ideas and opinions, what appears?

Good luck and thanks for practicing.

_/|\_
Keith
Thank you for that post Keith. It's nice when someone puts a view across without assumptions and defensiveness. I'm sure that style of zen benefits you,so more power to you.
There used to be a forum called Zen Forum International, and a post that always sticks out for me was one made by Gregory Wonderwheel. He mentioned a way of writing posts that were less confrontational. Basically, the takeaway I got was to never use the word "you". Pretty interesting.
I realise certain subjects are touchy,but when it comes to basics I don't compromise.
What to say? Here is a kong an that seems relevant:

"Somebody comes into the Zen center with a lighted cigarette, walks up to the
Buddha statue, blows smoke in its face and drops ashes on its lap. You are
standing there. What can you do?"


I love how kong ans can help us see our delusions, and places where are holding our ideas and opinions a little tightly.
Have you experienced no self,and how would you describe the experience?
I have complete trust in the direction of our practice. Personal experiences are not really anyone else's business.
I also see,you suggest that practice without organisation is not zen buddhism. Why do you think that? Personally I class myself as Zenny,not zen buddhist,because although I think Buddha was a great man and the best ever famous "teacher", I don't feel it's necessary to be named in my identity,as the essence of his message is Meditation.
Yes, Zen Buddhism is a Sangha practice, which includes a teacher. A lock needs a key. And a minor correction, if I may. The Buddha did not teach meditation. He taught a way to the end of Dhukka.
Cheers.
And cheers to you as well, friend.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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Hazel
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Re: Zen beliefs.

Post by Hazel »


I am locking this thread as it's gotten pretty heated and I don't think anyone's mind is changing. Furthermore, it's becoming increasingly apparent that we may be discussing apples and oranges with the thread not being about traditional Zen Buddhism, which is what this sub-forum is dedicated to.

If anyone sees a reason why this thread should be re-opened, message now or forever hold your peace.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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