Zen beliefs.
Zen beliefs.
Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
Re: Zen beliefs.
Buddhist teachings are experience based and to be experienced for oneself. It is a matter of one's level of progress how much one can learn, comprehend, and eventually verify personally.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- PadmaVonSamba
- Posts: 9397
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am
Re: Zen beliefs.
Please list them.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 am Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: Zen beliefs.
My problem with this is that this means that certain beliefs are upheld as something to "discover" rather than being Innate and natural. And that is the way that many religions try to get people to accept beliefs that are not felt/natural. Thus one can never criticise a "belief" as the reply would be "you haven't progressed enough". Which smacks of complacency and authority.
Re: Zen beliefs.
The primary belief is no self. Also Non duality.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:01 pmPlease list them.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 am Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
These beliefs are like someone telling me that cheating on ones spouse is OK,just as long as you practice enough. Many things in life I feel are obviously right or wrong,and don't need overanalysis.
Re: Zen beliefs.
Your teacup is full.
Re: Zen beliefs.
You have not understood either anatman or emptiness. You also have a lot of concepts.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:21 pmThe primary belief is no self. Also Non duality.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:01 pmPlease list them.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 am Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
These beliefs are like someone telling me that cheating on ones spouse is OK,just as long as you practice enough. Many things in life I feel are obviously right or wrong,and don't need overanalysis.
Re: Zen beliefs.
As I posted earlier the last three posts have just repeated the cliche of needing to practice more. How is this any different to a Christian telling me that I have to pray more to experience jesus?
Re: Zen beliefs.
Didn't ask you to practice more, just to consider what it means that your cup is overflowing. In essence, you are full of your own ideas.
- PadmaVonSamba
- Posts: 9397
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am
Re: Zen beliefs.
What is your understanding of the meaning ofZenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:21 pmThe primary belief is no self.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:01 pmPlease list them.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 am Hello. I love Zen practice. The clear and simple focus on meditation/focus as the essential practice of any spiritual path.
And the fact that meditation is the natural essence of a person.
Everyday Zen! All life experience is an opportunity to zen.
My gripe is this. All the "beliefs" that go with organised zen are to me either untrue,rabbit holes or controlling dogma.
Why the need for non experiential beliefs in an otherwise perfect religion?
Also Non duality.
“No self”
And what do you understand to be meant by
“Non duality”
?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: Zen beliefs.
The act of "considering" is still practice.
I'm fully aware of all the terminology that is used in a clichéd way to rebut any dissent from the dogmas. How is your response any different than a Christian telling me I'm a sinner so I need to get in line with the group think?
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Zen beliefs.
Karma still applies as consciousness manifests. Zen is about knowing our nature in a direct way. There are various ways to do that but all should lead to the same progress. Progress as in mind-nature becomes more clear. Clear as in not mistaken. Not constructive. But not constructive in a sense to be clear of nature. That’s not to be one sided view.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:10 pmMy problem with this is that this means that certain beliefs are upheld as something to "discover" rather than being Innate and natural. And that is the way that many religions try to get people to accept beliefs that are not felt/natural. Thus one can never criticise a "belief" as the reply would be "you haven't progressed enough". Which smacks of complacency and authority.
Last edited by LastLegend on Tue May 11, 2021 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Zen beliefs.
We don't do things like justification by faith or shaktipat in the Buddhadharma. You want to get a result out, you need to put some effort in. If you don't want to practice, then really, the zen school might not be for you.
Re: Zen beliefs.
reiun wrote: If you practice zazen under the guidance of a teacher, one way or another, you may come to realize this
No, not practice more, but with crucial guidance, so that when you hit questions such as you are now posing, you will get a definitive and trustworthy answer.
Re: Zen beliefs.
What makes you think I don't practice? Bit presumptuous no?
And you are suggesting that the only result of practice is to agree with your beliefs? Will you next say the results of my practice are invalid because I don't agree with certain beliefs?
Re: Zen beliefs.
If your concern about zen is its beliefs, perhaps share some of yours?
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Zen beliefs.
That depends on what it means to practice...to be fair to you people can sit Zazen but if we don’t recognize mahaprajna nature directly, we might not able to reach the 10th stage. If they don’t recognize what manifests in mind, what ignorance is...Zenny wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 3:00 pmThe act of "considering" is still practice.
I'm fully aware of all the terminology that is used in a clichéd way to rebut any dissent from the dogmas. How is your response any different than a Christian telling me I'm a sinner so I need to get in line with the group think?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Zen beliefs.
It seems to me your just asking me to defer to an authority without actually experiencing/ feeling the belief. On basic principles beliefs should be self evident.reiun wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 3:08 pmreiun wrote: If you practice zazen under the guidance of a teacher, one way or another, you may come to realize thisNo, not practice more, but with crucial guidance, so that when you hit questions such as you are now posing, you will get a definitive and trustworthy answer.