right TRACK!

[Johnny Dangerous]

I have a perhaps-unreasonable prejudice against Soto's "all zazen, all the time" approach.

This has not, in fact, been the approach at any of the Soto temples at which I've practiced.

I don't doubt it, but it is definitely a current in Western Zen practice.

[reiun]

I have a perhaps-unreasonable prejudice against Soto's "all zazen, all the time" approach.

This has not, in fact, been the approach at any of the Soto temples at which I've practiced.

I don't doubt it, but it is definitely a current in Western Zen practice.

Perhaps your Soto teacher would give you a koan to sit with? It changes zazen.

My teacher has passed on, but I still have the instruction how to sit with the fundamental koan.

[narhwal90]

Perhaps common, but not universal. Our sangha is certainly encouraged to sit zazen, do the retreats and intensives- but have also taken up sewing, one of the member makes woodworking a form of practice. The roshi does zen painting and poetry and encourages us to do likewise. In study sessions we have talked koans sometimes, a student might take up that method, depending on circumstances.
.

[Johnny Dangerous]

This has not, in fact, been the approach at any of the Soto temples at which I've practiced.

I don't doubt it, but it is definitely a current in Western Zen practice.

Perhaps your Soto teacher would give you a koan to sit with? It changes zazen.

My teacher has passed on, but I still have the instruction how to sit with the fundamental koan.

I don't practice in the Zen tradition anymore, though I am still fond of it.

[LastLegend]

Well...here is a passage so you can compare to Bodhidharma’s:

Page 13.
Hui-neng then yelled out, "Good friends, when I was with Master Hung-jen, as soon as I heard his words, I experienced a great realization, and I saw the original nature of reality directly. Therefore, I am passing on this teaching to later generations so that those who study the Way will realize enlightenment directly and so that those who contemplate the mind will realize their original nature directly. If you are unable to realize this by yourselves, you need to find a truly good friend to point out the way to see your nature.
And what do I mean by a ‘truly good friend’? Someone who understands the teaching of the Supreme Vehicle and who points directly to the true path is a truly good friend, a great intermediary, a guide who helps people see their nature. All good teachings can only come about due to truly good friends.
https://terebess.hu/zen/platform-sutra.pdf

This just reinforces the teaching of Bodhidharma and Meido.

I think what you are arguing to the contrary is that you (or master of puppets) can proceed without a teacher, no problem.

...

[LastLegend]

A lot of people have some contact with their so called teachers then they either don’t communicate often or their teachers passed on, so what does make you reiun? A ronin! By no teacher I assume you mean completely one has never had any actual interaction with one or received formal instruction? What’s the degree and intensity of interaction here? That defines a teacher student relationship?

[reiun]

A lot of people have some contact with their so called teachers then they either don’t communicate often or their teachers passed on, so what does make you reiun? A ronin! By no teacher I assume you mean completely one has never had any actual interaction with one or received formal instruction? What’s the degree and intensity of interaction here? That defines a teacher student relationship?

Well, for example, I have not refused to name my teachers, as you have. The degree and intensity of interaction includes jukai (1994), sesshin, and dokusan, since 1971.
And you?
.

[LastLegend]

A lot of people have some contact with their so called teachers then they either don’t communicate often or their teachers passed on, so what does make you reiun? A ronin! By no teacher I assume you mean completely one has never had any actual interaction with one or received formal instruction? What’s the degree and intensity of interaction here? That defines a teacher student relationship?

Well, for example, I have not refused to name my teachers, as you have. The degree and intensity of interaction includes jukai, sesshin, and dokusan, since 1971.
And you?
.

You are you looking for a famous figure instead of a joe nobody who lives at home just like the rest of us. Who doesn’t have students or followers doesn’t have a center. Who doesn’t have a lineage. Who have written no books. Why would I give a name for? Why do you care?

[LastLegend]

A lot of people have some contact with their so called teachers then they either don’t communicate often or their teachers passed on, so what does make you reiun? A ronin! By no teacher I assume you mean completely one has never had any actual interaction with one or received formal instruction? What’s the degree and intensity of interaction here? That defines a teacher student relationship?

Well, for example, I have not refused to name my teachers, as you have. The degree and intensity of interaction includes jukai (1994), sesshin, and dokusan, since 1971.
And you?
.

What you are looking for is legitimize a tradition a lineage an affiliation, but you are not seeing the clear sky. This is the problem.

[reiun]

No, I am just answering your challenge regarding degree and intensity.
I think you would have an actual understanding if you had ever had a teacher.

[LastLegend]

I think you would have an actual understanding if you had ever had a teacher.

[LastLegend]

My primary focus is quite simple: if we see the clear sky, then why am I still deluded in dreams/sleep? There is one thing there I am working on to dissolve is that which distinguishes. That’s all there is to it. Now it’s very fine and subtle, hard to detect, it manifests many appearances [in mind]. It constructs various appearances.

[reiun]

My primary focus is quite simple: if we see the clear sky, then why am I still deluded in dreams/sleep? There is one thing there I am working on to dissolve is that which distinguishes. That’s all there is to it. Now it’s very fine and subtle, hard to detect, it manifests many appearances [in mind]. It constructs various appearances.

Exactly what a teacher is for: to guide you towards an understanding which you have not and probably cannot achieve on your own.

[Budai]

My primary focus is quite simple: if we see the clear sky, then why am I still deluded in dreams/sleep? There is one thing there I am working on to dissolve is that which distinguishes. That’s all there is to it. Now it’s very fine and subtle, hard to detect, it manifests many appearances [in mind]. It constructs various appearances.

How do you feel about that which distinguishes versus that which discerns?

[LastLegend]

My primary focus is quite simple: if we see the clear sky, then why am I still deluded in dreams/sleep? There is one thing there I am working on to dissolve is that which distinguishes. That’s all there is to it. Now it’s very fine and subtle, hard to detect, it manifests many appearances [in mind]. It constructs various appearances.

Exactly what a teacher is for: to guide you towards an understanding which you have not and probably cannot achieve on your own.

[reiun]

There is a lot of value in your honest (emoji) responses. If you are able to relate to a teacher, your practice will likely derive great benefit.

[LastLegend]

There is a lot of value in your honest (emoji) responses. If you are able to relate to a teacher, your practice will likely derive great benefit.

Well...you have to find out where you are stuck and undo it. It’s not an easy job.

[Kim O'Hara]

Meido Moore

I keep seeing this fellow's name everywhere it seems. He's really stirred things up with "Hidden Zen."
Having looked at it a bit it seems to present the "physicality" of Rinzai in quite lucid detail.
When I was studying Rinzai my Teacher would occasionally toss out one or two such bodily tips and tricks at a time.
Almost as an afterthought, it seemed. Just enough so we wouldn't gorge ourselves on them. Like slipping the occasional bits of candy to a baby.
It's only when I saw all this sort of thing systematically presented in Moore's book that I realized there was this whole "bodywork" dimension to Rinzai that goes beyond "just sitting" or memorizing Koan capping-phrase "cheat sheet" manuals.
I wish I had had more time to practice that tradition before COVID came along and upended that cozy little world, at least for now. But after a year and a half away from Rinzai I find myself slipping into my old pure-land ways...

Meido used to contribute to this forum pretty regularly, not sure if he is active right now or not.

"Last active: Sun Jul 05, 2020" according to the member search page.


Kim

[reiun]

There is a lot of value in your honest (emoji) responses. If you are able to relate to a teacher, your practice will likely derive great benefit.

Well...you have to find out where you are stuck and undo it. It’s not an easy job.

So: teacher.

[master of puppets]

If your mind is not ready no teacher can help you.

I don't have a teacher but a road map. (Ox herding)

At no point it says you need a teacher or a guide cause itself is a guide.

Only at the 10 th level you see a buddha (a teacher) giving you the way of food.

A teacher for me can only be give dicipline to stay on the right track until your mind become ready.

Then everything could easily become a teacher; like a stone hitting a bamboo as to most ordinary events that we read from the story of past masters; and you can hear the teacher,

even far from the ancient times..

I believe they are always ready somewhere around us to point the way to the mind in a way;

But the original question is not about the teacher; but the right track.

Please do everyone get on the right track!!!

Buddha, dharma, sangha

I'm happy to be a part of this community,

We will accomplish this journey together..

nm