Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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Russian
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Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by Russian »

For Zen, to distinguish is the Hinayana method. You have probably read about the pure and impure in the masters, they just teach not to separate, that is, they teach non-discrimination, that it is the ordinary mind that divides, brings duality, they teach to stay beyond the pure and impure, hence, by the way, the relaxed behavior of the masters. Zen does not attach importance to the accumulation of conceptual knowledge, where the main thing is to catch the direction, understanding. All the treatises of the patriarchs, just in this releasing direction. Remember the meeting of young Sheng-Yan with Master Ling-Yuan. The former asked him many questions, and the latter said: "More? Any more questions?» This went on for about two hours. Master Ling-Yuan asked him, "More?" and Sheng-Yan hesitated, and for a moment was confused. Master Ling-Yuan struck the dais and said to him: "Take all your questions, just grab them, and put them away." If you do not grasp this spirit of letting go, but strive to acquire conceptual knowledge, then Zen will not be understood by you and you will still be far from it.
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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By the way, there is also a question in the understanding of karma in Zen Buddhism: do I understand correctly that according to Zen, karma does not accumulate, does not arise if there is no checking mind, that is, if the mind does not create anything? Perhaps that is why Zen masters are taught not to check, to the ignorant mind.
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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This is also the method of the "ignorant mind" (the method - "I don't know"), which is taught in Korean monasteries, and the "beginner's mind" by Shunryu Suzuki.
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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Korean "Don't-Know Mind" and Japanese "Mu" - Korean "Don't-Know Mind" and Japanese " ... gu0JMQbCQk
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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Keeping Don't Know - https://youtu.be/-uuEI0VuOa0
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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The practical technique of zazen itself is not aimed at distinguish (make a distinction, check), as are the koans that knock the support out of the mind.
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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Guys, I'm from Russia. I do not know English, I write with the help of a machine translator. If somewhere is unsuccessful, incorrectly written, then I'm sorry. Therefore, I try to write more of the same type of messages, with different words or different presentation, so that it becomes clear, so that it becomes clear what I am writing about.
reiun
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by reiun »

Russian wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:54 am Guys, I'm from Russia. I do not know English, I write with the help of a machine translator. If somewhere is unsuccessful, incorrectly written, then I'm sorry. Therefore, I try to write more of the same type of messages, with different words or different presentation, so that it becomes clear, so that it becomes clear what I am writing about.
Привет, брат мой. Мне нравится читать ваши комментарии. Фраза "сделать различие" является лучшим выбором, чем "проверить". Я оставлю этот ответ непереведенным, так что другие могут выбрать для использования Google translate. Затем они могут оценить немного того, что вы терпеть! Кстати, русский язык я изучала в начальной школе около 1959-60 годов. Я все еще могу рассчитывать! И я знаю некоторые из языка nadsat из книги Энтони Берджесса, Заводной апельсин, LOL. Спасибо за ваш вклад в этом форуме. Искренне, Рейун
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Astus
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

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Russian wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 amFor Zen, to distinguish is the Hinayana method.
Wisdom is the goal of all Buddhists, because that is what brings liberation. It is of no use to merely suspend one's cognitive faculties, that would be just a temporary state that solves nothing, like shutting one's eyes but still being hit by the train. Not discriminating in Zen means freedom from grasping at the extremes of being and nonbeing, freedom from taking things personally as I and my. Actually it is very much in line with what you find in other schools, to eliminate ignorance and realise emptiness. The method and style is somewhat different, however.
according to Zen, karma does not accumulate, does not arise if there is no checking mind, that is, if the mind does not create anything?
It is when there is no attachment that the chain of dependent origination is severed, so it is in that way that there is no karma accumulated. But it's certainly not some sort of blank mind with no comprehension of what is going on, quite the opposite actually.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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LastLegend
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by LastLegend »

It’s actually not bad with a blank mind not knowing what’s going on as long as one has insight into that is aware.
It’s eye blinking.
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LastLegend
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by LastLegend »

Russian wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 am For Zen, to distinguish is the Hinayana method. You have probably read about the pure and impure in the masters, they just teach not to separate, that is, they teach non-discrimination, that it is the ordinary mind that divides, brings duality, they teach to stay beyond the pure and impure, hence, by the way, the relaxed behavior of the masters. Zen does not attach importance to the accumulation of conceptual knowledge, where the main thing is to catch the direction, understanding. All the treatises of the patriarchs, just in this releasing direction. Remember the meeting of young Sheng-Yan with Master Ling-Yuan. The former asked him many questions, and the latter said: "More? Any more questions?» This went on for about two hours. Master Ling-Yuan asked him, "More?" and Sheng-Yan hesitated, and for a moment was confused. Master Ling-Yuan struck the dais and said to him: "Take all your questions, just grab them, and put them away." If you do not grasp this spirit of letting go, but strive to acquire conceptual knowledge, then Zen will not be understood by you and you will still be far from it.
When you say distinguish, that means there is such a function of mind that does that.
It’s eye blinking.
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KeithA
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by KeithA »

Russian wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:54 am Guys, I'm from Russia. I do not know English, I write with the help of a machine translator. If somewhere is unsuccessful, incorrectly written, then I'm sorry. Therefore, I try to write more of the same type of messages, with different words or different presentation, so that it becomes clear, so that it becomes clear what I am writing about.
Hi Russian,

Your translator is doing just fine. It comes across a little cold, but that isn't your fault. It's a limitation of written communication.

I am glad you found Dae Soen Sa Nim's way.

When a human being wants to understand the world, and that person's place in it, it can be approached two ways: words and letters or direct experience. Or, to put it another way, philosophy or mysticism. All religions have mystic traditions, Zen is one in the Buddhist religion.

Mysticism depends on silence, and freeing oneself of ideas and opinions. It doesn't depend upon how many Sutra's one can cite, chants one memorizes, or how many Sanskrit words one knows. There are neither beginner nor advanced teachings. It's simply silently turning our attention inward, and seeing what appears.

This is where Dae Soen Sa Nim's "don''t check" teaching comes from. Other Zen traditions use words like "let go" to point to the same teaching. A thought arises, it is let go of, without judging it good or bad (checking). Don't check your mind, your practice, anything. Just ask the question "what am I?"

Please check out the Kwan Um Online Sangha for specific questions about ZM Seung Sahn's teachings. You will get access to teachers and experienced students there.

_/|\_
Good luck and thanks for practicing,
Keith
Last edited by KeithA on Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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LastLegend
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Re: Do I understand correctly that Zen teaches not to check?

Post by LastLegend »

Excellent KeithA yo
It’s eye blinking.
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