Page 3 of 3

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:20 pm
by Malcolm
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Why do you insist that buddhanature is not knowable as an experience? Perhaps it is because you have never the experience of buddhanature?
How could it be an experience when cessation is the end of the aggregates? What is left to have any experience?
Cessation is the end of which aggregates now?

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:24 pm
by aflatun
:popcorn:

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:57 pm
by PuerAzaelis
Malcolm wrote:
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Why do you insist that buddhanature is not knowable as an experience? Perhaps it is because you have never the experience of buddhanature?
How could it be an experience when cessation is the end of the aggregates? What is left to have any experience?
Cessation is the end of which aggregates now?
When fabrications stop at least one of the aggregates have to stop since nothing is outside of the aggregates.

Otherwise I have to say there can be an aggregate without becoming. That doesn't make sense. If the aggregate has no more arising and ceasing, there's no more aggregate.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:06 pm
by dharmagoat
:popcorn:
Funny how Zen becomes unrecognisable in its own neighbourhood.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:07 pm
by PuerAzaelis
Apologies I just realized this was in the Zen forum

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:12 pm
by dharmagoat
Much respect to you, PuerAzaelis.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:28 pm
by aflatun
dharmagoat wrote::popcorn:
Funny how Zen becomes unrecognisable in its own neighbourhood.
Could you explain what you mean, for my edification?

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:17 am
by Dharma Flower
I'm not saying here that I agree with Dogen's understanding of Buddha-nature. I am just saying that certain Theravadin critiques of the doctrine of Buddha-nature might not apply to it. My own interpretation of Buddha-nature is based on The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:21 am
by Malcolm
PuerAzaelis wrote: When fabrications stop at least one of the aggregates have to stop since nothing is outside of the aggregates.
Which one? And who told you there was nothing outside of the aggregates? Certainly not the Buddha.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:21 am
by dharmagoat
aflatun wrote:
dharmagoat wrote::popcorn:
Funny how Zen becomes unrecognisable in its own neighbourhood.
Could you explain what you mean, for my edification?
Only that (in my humble opinion) the spirit of Zen as a unique practice tradition is lost in the clamour of pan-Buddhist ideation. Or something.

On a subforum dedicated to Zen, one would hope this doesn't happen. Think of the children.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:35 am
by aflatun
dharmagoat wrote:
aflatun wrote:
dharmagoat wrote::popcorn:
Funny how Zen becomes unrecognisable in its own neighbourhood.
Could you explain what you mean, for my edification?
Only that (in my humble opinion) the spirit of Zen as a unique practice tradition is lost in the clamour of pan-Buddhist ideation. Or something.

On a subforum dedicated to Zen, one would hope this doesn't happen. Think of the children.
Those dang kids :twothumbsup:

Thanks for clarifying, I thought you were objecting to aggregates arising and ceasing specifically as non zen

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:41 am
by dharmagoat
aflatun wrote:Thanks for clarifying, I thought you were objecting to aggregates arising and ceasing specifically as non zen
No, it was just another one of my unprimed thought-bombs thrown into a conversation.

Re: Freedom From Buddha Nature by Thanissaro Bhikkhu & Zen Master Dogen

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:56 am
by Johnny Dangerous
dharmagoat wrote:
aflatun wrote:
dharmagoat wrote::popcorn:
Funny how Zen becomes unrecognisable in its own neighbourhood.
Could you explain what you mean, for my edification?
Only that (in my humble opinion) the spirit of Zen as a unique practice tradition is lost in the clamour of pan-Buddhist ideation. Or something.

On a subforum dedicated to Zen, one would hope this doesn't happen. Think of the children.
Yes, we really should all just be exhorting one another to chop wood carry water, and just sit more.

Sorry, couldn't resist:)

Anyway the thread was from the get go only marginally about Zen, referenced a piece by a Theravadin teachers, and predictably it's kind of meandering, do people have anything specific that would focus the conversation a little more? If so PM me, if not I'm gonna go ahead and lay this one to rest.