jake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:03 pm
Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:13 pm
Bodhiquest wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:37 am
On the contrary; unfortunately only a handful people in the entire world teach Shingon to laypeople openly.
I thought Shingon was largely a tantric lay lineage?
Do you mean teach to UNINITIATED laypeople openly?
You're correct. There is no vinaya in Shingon (or other Japanese traditions) so technically there are no monastics. As Seishin mentions I think most just sort of understand that this is implied when writing about laypeople or ordained.
That said, I'd be very interested to hear more from Bodhiquest on what he means by "teach Shingon to laypeople openly." Rather surprising statement!
Laypeople in the sense Seishin explained. So basically if you are not ordained and want to have access to anything more than some basic practices, then your options are extremely limited. In most Tibetan Buddhist groups, from what I understand, you have programs in place to get into actual Vajrayana practices after some time and familiarity. In Shingon you won't find that kind of thing happen in temples; you'd have to find a teacher willing to open those teachings up and slowly progress there.
NeonPhoenixNeko wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:02 am
Bodhiquest wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:37 am
Shingon seems far more accessible than the tibetan traditions.
On the contrary; unfortunately only a handful people in the entire world teach Shingon to laypeople openly.
Interesting, what about the books published on Shingon then? BDK released a book on Shingon Texts mostly written by Kukai, are these sorts of teachings not supposed to be taught to uninitiated?
I'm not sure what the orthodox stance on reading the Mahavairocana and Vajrasekhara Sutra/Tantra is. However for Kukai's works and the like, all of what you can find in English is also easily available in Japanese bookshops. In those texts you'll see discussions of philosophy and thought, but nothing about the actual practices themselves.
Also when I say more accesible, I mean moreso that it's less confusing to navigate. There are several sects with different viewpoints, a ton of history involved, and even politics. When I read anything on the Tibetan Vajrayana it's like another language, with a handful of terms I'm unfamiliar with! Shingon just seems a bit more straightforward in terms of lineage and philosophy.
Ah, I see. I'd guess that the reason for this is that only a
tiny amount of Shingon literature is available in English. There might indeed be more doctrinal cohesion, however, as the sub-sects of Shingon appear not to differ on anything but some very specific points.
The biggest problem is what I mentioned above: with Tibetan Buddhism sure, you can get super confused; but if you want to clear up that confusion and learn from a teacher as you are, it's relatively easy to do, generally speaking. These are things that cannot be understood only intellectually, after all. Shingon however has a minuscule presence overseas, and in almost all cases the "real stuff" is behind the walls of ordination.