"Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

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Bodhiquest
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"Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Bodhiquest »

While digging through some old files, I found that I had saved this booklet called Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation by Rev. Somon Horisawa, apparently sourced from https://tendaiuk.com/tendai-practice/. It had been a while since I looked at this text so I read it again.

Since between then and now I've become interested in the way sitting instructions are written down in English Buddhist literature, I was intrigued by the various mentions of "energy" in the booklet, such as "Concentrate your energy slightly on the soles of your feet" or "Your energy should be in your hips ...". Does anyone know what this is precisely referring to?
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

First of all, that link to meditation instructions is great!
The only time I have ever heard of directing energy as described there is in the context of chi.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Bodhiquest »

Indeed chi is a usual suspect when it comes to "energy", but I don't think that's it, since the instructions seem to be for beginners who'd have no idea what to do about that.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Queequeg »

Attention?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by GrapeLover »

The Japanese term it uses in the walking meditation diagram is 力 / chikara if this is of any value to you. Purely in terms of everyday usage it isn’t any more precise than energy
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Bodhiquest »

GrapeLover wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:01 pm The Japanese term it uses in the walking meditation diagram is 力 / chikara if this is of any value to you. Purely in terms of everyday usage it isn’t any more precise than energy
I'm stupid. Because the text is so tiny I didn't think of zooming in, but now I see 力を入れる there, which almost but not quite implies a strain-like quality, so it seems that the meaning is basically that those body parts should be "alive".
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Queequeg »

I looked for this document but can't find it. Do you have a link? I'd like to see the context.

Based on your description, if we're talking about the soles of the feet during walking meditation, to say chikara wo ireru, I would not describe that as strain but rather something like, "walk with the soles of your feet firmly on the ground." I can't imagine any posture instruction suggesting one should strain. In the case of the hips, it would be similar - hold your hips firmly while walking... or something like that.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by GDPR_Anonymized001 »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:06 pm I looked for this document but can't find it. Do you have a link? I'd like to see the context.

Based on your description, if we're talking about the soles of the feet during walking meditation, to say chikara wo ireru, I would not describe that as strain but rather something like, "walk with the soles of your feet firmly on the ground." I can't imagine any posture instruction suggesting one should strain. In the case of the hips, it would be similar - hold your hips firmly while walking... or something like that.
This was how I received the instructions. Focus your attention on the soles of your feet (e.g. don't walk like a slob getting up off the couch headed to the refrigerator, walk with intent). We just don't really have a good word in English for this I think. For example, when you reach your hand out to grab a door knob, there is a certain amount of "energy" or "tension" or attention your mind puts into the muscles of your hand. That's how this stuff was explained to me.

It's not like some sort of new age energy flow stuff -which is unfortunately how it so often seems to be perceived these days.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

jake wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:27 pm
Queequeg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:06 pm I looked for this document but can't find it. Do you have a link? I'd like to see the context.

Based on your description, if we're talking about the soles of the feet during walking meditation, to say chikara wo ireru, I would not describe that as strain but rather something like, "walk with the soles of your feet firmly on the ground." I can't imagine any posture instruction suggesting one should strain. In the case of the hips, it would be similar - hold your hips firmly while walking... or something like that.
This was how I received the instructions. Focus your attention on the soles of your feet (e.g. don't walk like a slob getting up off the couch headed to the refrigerator, walk with intent). We just don't really have a good word in English for this I think. For example, when you reach your hand out to grab a door knob, there is a certain amount of "energy" or "tension" or attention your mind puts into the muscles of your hand. That's how this stuff was explained to me.

It's not like some sort of new age energy flow stuff -which is unfortunately how it so often seems to be perceived these days.
Actually I got quite similar instructions fom my qigong teacher.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Bodhiquest »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:06 pm I looked for this document but can't find it. Do you have a link? I'd like to see the context.

Based on your description, if we're talking about the soles of the feet during walking meditation, to say chikara wo ireru, I would not describe that as strain but rather something like, "walk with the soles of your feet firmly on the ground." I can't imagine any posture instruction suggesting one should strain. In the case of the hips, it would be similar - hold your hips firmly while walking... or something like that.
It's the first link in the page I linked to. Page 7, (2) in the text next to the diagram showing the figure standing up. It says 力を入れたまま.

I didn't mean literally straining a body part (hence the "almost but not quite" bit), basically non-laxity and aliveness, I guess. Having "intent" there. You know how ambiguous stuff involving 力 or 気 (among others) can get when trying to render them in English.
jake wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:27 pm This was how I received the instructions. Focus your attention on the soles of your feet (e.g. don't walk like a slob getting up off the couch headed to the refrigerator, walk with intent). We just don't really have a good word in English for this I think. For example, when you reach your hand out to grab a door knob, there is a certain amount of "energy" or "tension" or attention your mind puts into the muscles of your hand. That's how this stuff was explained to me.

It's not like some sort of new age energy flow stuff -which is unfortunately how it so often seems to be perceived these days.
This corresponds to what I had in mind. The choice of words in the English instructions seems to be very much adequate then, maybe just in need of a footnote.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by haha »

Just an opinion: A point is already made and at the same time there are some points that could be dismissive.

This energy stuff is definitely related with some kind of tension, presser, or force (i.e. whatever one regard proper) to maintain the posture. It is all about maintaining the posture with keeping physical level of attention (i.e. energy/pressure/tension/force/gravity).

For sitting, start with balancing the soles of your feet and then in your hips, along your backbone, and your chin. It might mean that one keeps attention to those parts but not in other parts to maintain the posture; it is a kind of physical level of attention.

However, I have the impression that the venerable Zhiyi was well versed in channel and energy. He had provided methods for clearing the obstacle with clearing the channels, organs, or by breathing methods in his writing. I do not know the doxography, however, Venerable might be the one of the earliest person who had introduced six healing sounds, etc. in Buddhist practice. (i.e. one can find it as a popular qigong practice).

Thanks for the sharing the link.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Bodhiquest »

haha wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:22 am Just an opinion: A point is already made and at the same time there are some points that could be dismissive.

This energy stuff is definitely related with some kind of tension, presser, or force (i.e. whatever one regard proper) to maintain the posture. It is all about maintaining the posture with keeping physical level of attention (i.e. energy/pressure/tension/force/gravity).

For sitting, start with balancing the soles of your feet and then in your hips, along your backbone, and your chin. It might mean that one keeps attention to those parts but not in other parts to maintain the posture; it is a kind of physical level of attention.

However, I have the impression that the venerable Zhiyi was well versed in channel and energy. He had provided methods for clearing the obstacle with clearing the channels, organs, or by breathing methods in his writing. I do not know the doxography, however, Venerable might be the one of the earliest person who had introduced six healing sounds, etc. in Buddhist practice. (i.e. one can find it as a popular qigong practice).

Thanks for the sharing the link.
A good summary, thank you.

Good point about Zhiyi's interest in and knowledge of energy work. My practice isn't Tendai but I've heard about his mastery in those matters in other contexts.
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Re: "Method of Tendai Sitting Meditation"

Post by Queequeg »

I've heard that Tendai meditation methods include stimulating pressure points on the body to encourage circulation but had not ever heard of the use of breaths and sound. Found this article that might be of interest:

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/features/c ... tury-china
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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