The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

A place to post videos, pictures, and any other sort of Buddhist or non-Buddhist media.
Post Reply
Huseng
Former staff member
Posts: 6336
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm

The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Huseng »

I found this recording of a lecture given by Dr. Jan Nattier on the origin of the Bodhisattva bhumis. Very well done and informative. Excellent scholarship.
Lecturer: Prof. Jan Nattier, International Research Institute for Advanced Buddhology, Soka University.

The first lecture from the conference "Buddhism in Asia", that took place at the East Asian Studies Department, Tel Aviv University.

phpBB [video]
Huseng
Former staff member
Posts: 6336
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Huseng »

John McRae's lecture on Bodhidharma is also available:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbFCXBcGdGE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4209
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
Location: California

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Nattier's lecture is over an hour and a half - how about the key bullet points on those "origins"?
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
User avatar
pueraeternus
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by pueraeternus »

This is an excellent talk. Thanks for the intro, Huseng.

These are my brief notes taken from listening to the video. I highly recommend listening to the entire clip:

The existence of the 10 bhumis imply that the Mahayanist conception of progress is gradual

4 stages of sainthood in the Hinayana are the 1st set of “stages of development”

The idea of Bodhisattvas was first introduced in the Jataka tales.

The original developers of the bodhisattva doctrine probably derived the basic structure of the bodhisattva paths from the Jatakas.

However, the ideas of 6 paramitas are not known in the Jatakas. The Jatakas also lack a structure or sequential progression of path.

Lokaksema - sutra of the 6 paramitas:
seems to be the earliest collection of Jatakas according to the 6 paramitas.
is the structure of the 6 paramitas a product of China?
the stories are Indian, but the table of contents might be chinese?


8000 prajnaparamita:
talks about bhumis, but in terms of sravakabhumi, pratyekabhumi, bodhisattvabhumi.
no mention of 10 stages


The earliest usage of the stratification of bhumis are twofold:
avarvitika bodhisattvas - irreversible
non-avivartika bodhisattvas - reversible to sravaka stage


Han period text - Buddhavamtasaka - translated by Lokaksema, earliest Chinese text to talk about 10 Bhumis.
taisho 280, 282, 283 can be reconstructed to be Lokaksema’s translation of the Buddhavamtasaka.

From this proto-avatamsaka (Buddhavamtasaka) sutra:
Bodhisattva Dharmamati learned about the 10 stages from Buddhas from the 10 directions during samadhi.

Dasabhumikasutra - the composer knew of the smaller buddhavamtasaka, and developed the idea of the 10 stages further. It does this by associating the 6 paramitas to the bhumis. This is the first time the paramitas are associated with the bhumis.


Q&A section
Nattier feels the Dasabhumika is quite incoherent, while the Buddhavamtasaka has clear instructions on how to practice, etc. The Dasabhumika assigns evocative names to the ten stages, rather than clear, descriptive labels (as per the Buddhavamtasaka).

In the later traditions, the ten bhumis start from the darsanamarga, whereas in the Buddhavamtasaka, the bhumis start before darsanamarga.

The mapping of the darsanamarga onto the ten bhumis is the result of a separate movement (than the one mentioned here).

In the Dasabhumika, the paramitas are linked to the ten stages, but not in a very clear or effective manner. The later commentators would refine this structure.

Why is the account of a vision accepted and preserved in a text like the Buddhavamtasaka? There are a lot of evidences in early Mahayana sutras that Mahayanists treasured visions.
In India, the idea that there are other universes and world systems like ours, appeared first in Buddhist literature, rather than Hindu literature (which one would expect). In fact, such an idea appeared exclusively in Mahayana literature. Such an idea (that there are other world systems to explore and learn from) is very important to the Mahayanist, because:
1. Since the next Buddha is Maitreya, and the estimated time between Sakyamuni’s Parinirvana and the arrival of Maitreya is about 5.5 billions years, how far back in the queue are you, as an aspirant?
2. In the early Mahayana sutras, the point where a Bodhisattva becomes irreversible is when a living Buddha grants a vyakarana. Since Sakyamuni has passed into Nirvana, where are you going to get a prediction? In early Mahayana sutras, some of these predictions appear to have been granted in said visions.

Hence:
1. visions were accepted as legitimate.
2. Buddhas from the ten directions were accepted as real.
3. The authors of these early Mahayana sutras/vision-accounts were most likely considered authoritative and/or highly accomplished by their peers, hence they were recorded down.

When the earliest prajnaparamita sutras were composed, the idea of other Buddhas in other world systems were already prevalent. In the Asta, that Buddha is Akshobhya.

Early non-Mahayana commentators resisted the idea that there are Buddhas and world systems in the ten directions. For eg., the Mahavibhasa rejected this idea, asking that if it were so, then there would be heavens of world systems in our nadir, that would be below our hells.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
Jnana
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Jnana »

Thanks for posting the video Huseng.

And thanks for adding your notes Pueraeternus.

All the best,

Geoff
matthewmartin
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by matthewmartin »

Where can I get an English translation & description of the 10 Bhumis from the proto-Avatamsaka?

This is like a big unresolved cliffhanger to find out there is an prescriptive version of the 10 Bhumis, but not being able to find out what they are. Wikipedia, et al only list the set with the odd titles, Joyous to Dharma Cloud.
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Ayu »

matthewmartin wrote:Where can I get an English translation & description of the 10 Bhumis from the proto-Avatamsaka?

This is like a big unresolved cliffhanger to find out there is an prescriptive version of the 10 Bhumis, but not being able to find out what they are. Wikipedia, et al only list the set with the odd titles, Joyous to Dharma Cloud.
Is this explanation better? http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... 5607bacd14
Or work through the whole article:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... minds.html
The 10 Bhumis are on the 3rd and the 4th pathway.

Or this:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... angha.html
User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1915
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by Seishin »

Thank you Indrajala :-)
manjusri
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:45 am

Re: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis

Post by manjusri »

Huseng wrote: Sat May 14, 2011 2:00 pm
This link you provided is for Jan Nattier's lecture, not John McRae's lecture. This is the correct link:
User avatar
Leo Rivers
Posts: 498
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:52 am
Contact:

Re: 2 Jan Nattier Lectures

Post by Leo Rivers »

by Huseng » Sat May 14, 2011 4:59 am
I found this recording of a lecture given by Dr. Jan Nattier on the origin of the Bodhisattva bhumis. Very well done and informative. Excellent scholarship.

Stages of the Path: The Origins of the Bodhisattva Bhumis this post works


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbFCXBcGdGE



The Proto-History of Buddhist Translation: From Gāndhārī and Pāli to Han-Dynasty Chinese this post works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCCkA12ynLs


Leo
User avatar
Zhen Li
Posts: 2748
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: 2 Jan Nattier Lectures

Post by Zhen Li »

Tsadra has some fantastic videos. Thanks for sharing that.
Post Reply

Return to “Media”