Amitofo or amituofo?

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Artziebetter1
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Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Artziebetter1 »

can you say Ahmi-to-fo instead of amitu-ofo?Ive listened to one Taiwanese monk say it that way.and Ive seen it written amitofo many places instead of amituofo.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
EMPTIFUL.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:45 am The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
For westerners with no link to a lineage it is completely okay to say Amitabha Buddha right? And is it better to stick to the chinese/japanese/vietnamese pronounciation for those with a link?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:56 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:45 am The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
For westerners with no link to a lineage it is completely okay to say Amitabha Buddha right? And is it better to stick to the chinese/japanese/vietnamese pronounciation for those with a link?
I don’t see how it matters one way or another.
No one way is “better” than another.
If you want to stick strictly to English, you could say
“Infinite Brilliance Buddha” but who wants to do that?
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:08 am
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:56 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:45 am The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
For westerners with no link to a lineage it is completely okay to say Amitabha Buddha right? And is it better to stick to the chinese/japanese/vietnamese pronounciation for those with a link?
I don’t see how it matters one way or another.
No one way is “better” than another.
If you want to stick strictly to English, you could say
“Infinite Brilliance Buddha” but who wants to do that?
Nah I would go "Buddha Nekonečného Světla" :tongue: .

And I did not mean better or worse, just possible.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:56 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:45 am The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
For westerners with no link to a lineage it is completely okay to say Amitabha Buddha right? And is it better to stick to the chinese/japanese/vietnamese pronounciation for those with a link?
Yes completely OK if you were part of a Sangha you’d probably adopt what they do. I was part of a Jodo Shinshu group in London and they said Namanda. Amitabha is Sanskrit and fairly universal though.
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by KiwiNFLFan »

In Mandarin, the syllable 'to' (like in 'tomorrow') doesn't exist. The character 陀 is pronounced 'tuo' or 'twor' (with the 'tw' pronounced as in 'tweed', not as in 'two').

However, in Taiwan, Taiwanese Hokkien is spoken in addition to Mandarin. In Hokkien, 阿彌陀佛 is pronounced 'Amito hut' or 'Amido hut' (with the 'u' pronounced as in 'put'). So maybe there is some sort of influence there.
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Here is a good explanation on pronunciation from Purelanders.com.

I didn't settle on a pronunciation until deciding to formally join a school. I variously said Namo Amitabha, Namo Amitabhaya, Namu Amida Butsu, Namu Amida Bu, Namandabu, briefly Om Ami Dewa Shri.
I said just "Amitabha!" for a long while, based on recommendations in Chinese Pure Land.

It can help develop a sense of reliance and sincerity if you aren't distracted by which form to say, so it's good to spend time with just one pronunciation, too.

As others have said, settling on a pronunciation can also be a reflection of your personal refuge in a school or teacher.
Namu Amida Butsu
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Zhen Li
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Zhen Li »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:45 am The third syllable in 阿弥陀佛
is 陀 which is pronounced tuó
But either way of saying it as part of 阿弥陀佛 is fine.
It’s a Chinese pronunciation of “Amitabha”

In the Chinese translation, “bha” is replaced by “fo” 佛 meaning “Buddha”
So, the name “Amitabha” is shortened to “amita”
and the Chinese translation is really “Amita-Buddha”.
Bha is not an equivalent of or replacement for 佛. Bha means light and ayus, as in Amitāyus, means life. Hence Amita (infinite) light or life.

This is because the earliest translations were translating from Middle Indic Amidā'a or Amidāha, which in Classical Sanskrit is Amitābha.

Thus, 陀 alone is equivalent of both Classical Sanskrit ta and ābha and Middle Indic dā'a. Another explanation is that 陀 in Old Chinese phonology may have had a final stop, so it might have been pronounced dhab. The Middle Chinese pronunciation is dha alone.

In response to Könchok Thrinley's concerns, it's probably not so much a question of the pronunciation of your lineage, as whether you are in a lineage that holds pronunciation to be important in the first place. These are few and far between.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by karmanyingpo »

I am interested in knowing where "emituofo" with a "e" or UH sound came from and how /why it is different than "amituofo". My gut feeling is that it doesn't matter much in terms of practice but I am curious because I am interested in languages.

KN
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Zhen Li
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by Zhen Li »

When 阿 is used in a transliteration or as a particle, it is a. In Mandarin, when it is used a verb (to pander) or as a noun (hill) then it is e. Most Mandarin speakers just pronounce it as a when it is in Amitoufo, for instance, but some people mix these up. The pronunciation, generally, is regular. Correct me if I am incorrect here, since this is not my area of specialty, but outside of Mandarin, and presumably in Middle and Old Chinese, this distinction doesn't appear to have existed and it was always a. Certainly in Japanese transliteration there is only a.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by karmanyingpo »

Zhen Li wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:18 am When 阿 is used in a transliteration or as a particle, it is a. In Mandarin, when it is used a verb (to pander) or as a noun (hill) then it is e. Most Mandarin speakers just pronounce it as a when it is in Amitoufo, for instance, but some people mix these up. The pronunciation, generally, is regular. Correct me if I am incorrect here, since this is not my area of specialty, but outside of Mandarin, and presumably in Middle and Old Chinese, this distinction doesn't appear to have existed and it was always a. Certainly in Japanese transliteration there is only a.
Thanks for the explanation

KN
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Amitofo or amituofo?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

In Taiwan they say A-mituofo. I get the sense that on the mainland, it's mostly E-mituofo and sometimes O-mituofo.

"E" in chinese sounds like an "uhh" in english. When I was learning the language, I would think of it as the puking syllable because "e" sort of sounds like you're puking or getting punched in the gut.

"Uo" sounds like "wo".

Search for "Namo Amituofo" chanting on youtube and you'll hear it.
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