Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

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bcol01
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Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by bcol01 »

Personally I see the value in being mindful, but I think it can lead to ocd like behavior by making you feel like you always have to police your own thoughts, therefore limiting one's ability to fully live in and enjoy the moment, if that makes sense. But what if anything does nichiren have to say about mindfulness?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by narhwal90 »

Policing thoughts isn't mindfulness, its grasping at thought. I think Nichiren would view mindfulness practices as provisional compared to daimoku; not false but superseded. That said, to speak about mindfulness beyond simple generalities it would be helpful to define what is meant eg vipassana, samatha or something else.
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Queequeg
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by Queequeg »

bcol01 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:46 pm Personally I see the value in being mindful, but I think it can lead to ocd like behavior by making you feel like you always have to police your own thoughts, therefore limiting one's ability to fully live in and enjoy the moment, if that makes sense. But what if anything does nichiren have to say about mindfulness?
How do you define "Mindfulness"?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
illarraza
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by illarraza »

bcol01 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:46 pm Personally I see the value in being mindful, but I think it can lead to ocd like behavior by making you feel like you always have to police your own thoughts, therefore limiting one's ability to fully live in and enjoy the moment, if that makes sense. But what if anything does nichiren have to say about mindfulness?
Self-reflection (the World of Learning) is definitely a part of Nichiren Buddhism. Here is but two examples from Nichiren:

"The Parinirvāna Sutra states: “Those who enter the monastic order, don clerical garments, and make a show of studying my teachings will exist in ages to come. Being lazy and remiss, they will slander the correct and equal sutras. You should be aware that all these people are followers of the non-Buddhist doctrines of today.” Those who read this passage should reflect deeply on their own practice. The Buddha is saying that those of our contemporary priests who wear clerical garments, but are idle and negligent, were disciples of the six non-Buddhist teachers in his day."

"At present the entire body of the Honorable Abutsu is composed of the five elements of earth, water, fire, wind, and space. These five elements are also the five characters of the daimoku. Abutsu-bō is therefore the treasure tower itself, and the treasure tower is Abutsu-bō himself. No other knowledge is purposeful. It is the treasure tower adorned with the seven kinds of treasures—hearing the correct teaching, believing it, keeping the precepts, engaging in meditation, practicing assiduously, renouncing one’s attachments, and reflecting on oneself."

and in the Lotus Sutra, two Arhats, Ananda and Rahula stated in Chapter 9, Prophecies Conferred on Learners and Adepts:

"At that time Ananda and Rahula thought to themselves, Whenever we reflect, we consider how delightful it would be if we should receive a prophecy of enlightenment!"

Tientai and his disciples performed a 21 day repentance ceremony (Queequeg would know more about this).

The Lotus Sutra ("If one wishes to carry out repentance, sit upright and ponder the true aspect" - Universal Worthy Sutra or epilogue to the Lotus Sutra) and Nichiren ("sit upright and ponder the ultimate reality") teach mindfulness directly. The ultimate mindfulness is sitting upright and chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo to the Gohonzon.
Last edited by illarraza on Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
bcol01
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by bcol01 »

Being aware of my thoughts, actions
Queequeg wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:51 pm
bcol01 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:46 pm Personally I see the value in being mindful, but I think it can lead to ocd like behavior by making you feel like you always have to police your own thoughts, therefore limiting one's ability to fully live in and enjoy the moment, if that makes sense. But what if anything does nichiren have to say about mindfulness?
How do you define "Mindfulness"?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
ronnymarsh
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by ronnymarsh »

"Mindfulness" is a neologism created to treat Dharma as a half-clinical possibility, as a modern psychological therapy. However, this approach is negative both for the understanding and realization of Buddhism as well as for modern medicine and psychology.

The term they use to generate "mindfullness" is "SMRTI" in Sanskrit or "SATI" in Pali (Nian in Mandarin and Nem in Japanese) and its meaning is literally "REMEMBER". SMRTI practices are basically remembering some auspicious theme: The Buddha, the Dharma, the Sangha, the Devas, among others, or some specific Dharma theme like the 10 Fundamentals.

The (apparent) practice of Nichiren Buddhism is just that: Nen-Ho, or "Dharma Smrti", remembrance of the Dharma, or using the neologism, mindfulness in Dharma.
Nicholas2727
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

ronnymarsh wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:42 pm "Mindfulness" is a neologism created to treat Dharma as a half-clinical possibility, as a modern psychological therapy. However, this approach is negative both for the understanding and realization of Buddhism as well as for modern medicine and psychology.

The term they use to generate "mindfullness" is "SMRTI" in Sanskrit or "SATI" in Pali (Nian in Mandarin and Nem in Japanese) and its meaning is literally "REMEMBER". SMRTI practices are basically remembering some auspicious theme: The Buddha, the Dharma, the Sangha, the Devas, among others, or some specific Dharma theme like the 10 Fundamentals.

The (apparent) practice of Nichiren Buddhism is just that: Nen-Ho, or "Dharma Smrti", remembrance of the Dharma, or using the neologism, mindfulness in Dharma.
In terms of practice Smrti/Sati can mean the present memory, along with many others like you mentioned. I don't think its fair to say that its negative for understanding and realization of Buddhism as a whole, possibly from the point of Nichiren although I know very little from that side.
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by ronnymarsh »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:33 pm
In terms of practice Smrti/Sati can mean the present memory, along with many others like you mentioned. I don't think its fair to say that its negative for understanding and realization of Buddhism as a whole, possibly from the point of Nichiren although I know very little from that side.
Negativity resides in the object that must occupy the mind. Observing the present moment is an exercise that can bring mute benefits, such as tranquility, but that is not what Buddhism seeks or teaches. The practice that the Buddha taught involves the process of remembering and also the objects that should be remembered, but not always when talking about mindfulness it refers to which objects should be remembered.
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

ronnymarsh wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:48 pm
Nicholas2727 wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:33 pm
In terms of practice Smrti/Sati can mean the present memory, along with many others like you mentioned. I don't think its fair to say that its negative for understanding and realization of Buddhism as a whole, possibly from the point of Nichiren although I know very little from that side.
Negativity resides in the object that must occupy the mind. Observing the present moment is an exercise that can bring mute benefits, such as tranquility, but that is not what Buddhism seeks or teaches. The practice that the Buddha taught involves the process of remembering and also the objects that should be remembered, but not always when talking about mindfulness it refers to which objects should be remembered.
Can you clarify what you mean by "negativity resides in the object that must occupy the mind?" Im not following.

And mindfulness has more benefits then simply tranquility. True mindfulness allows us to look at the current object of mind and see the three marks present in the object for ourselves. When rooted in ethics it also teaches us what behaviors and objects of mind to adopt and which to avoid. That is at least the understanding I have had from a few teachers and readings on the topic.

Here is a short clip from a great teacher going over mindfulness, as far as my knowledge goes I agree with everything he says.
ronnymarsh
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by ronnymarsh »

The most conventional and well-known practice in Buddhism within the Smrti practices is the remembrance of the 4 bases [better known by the Pali term "satipatthana"]. In this practice, one focuses the mind on four objects, recalling Dharma themes about them: body, sensations, mind, and the factors of existence (dharmas).

For each of these objects there are some exercises that must be performed during practice. For meditation on the body, the practitioner must perform fourteen exercises that begin with the observation of the breath and end with the contemplation of death and decomposition of the body. Then the practitioner directs attention to the mental formations, observing them in terms of pleasure, pain or neutrality, and then contemplating the mind (citta) and the formations that arise. These first three objects are introductory to appease mental turmoil, generate detachment and thus be ready to perform the last contemplation that consists of observing the dharmas, which is the structure of reality: five skandhas, six bases, seven factors and four noble truths. .

Basically, the practice consists of remembering the transitory condition of the body, remembering the transitory condition of sensations, remembering the transitory condition of the mind, and remembering the structure of reality (the dharmas) as taught by the Buddha. And it's not necessarily focusing your attention on the present moment, as is commonly advertised. On the contrary, when you are in the last exercise of contemplation of the body, what you do is focus your mind on a distressing point in the future: death and the decomposition of your own body.

These are the objects of contemplation realized in this practice, and form the core of the tripitaka teaching most evident in Theravada Buddhism.
The Agamas, in addition to these, list other objects of contemplation that form a total of 10 fundamental types of objects, which are the basis for the emergence of practices such as Nembustu (Buddha remembrance) and Daimoku (Dharma remembrance), and the In the same way, these do not consist in keeping the attention in the present moment, the practice of Sukhavati contemplation likewise requires the imagination of a realization in the future: birth in that Pure Land after death.

In summary, the term Smrti in Buddhism means more to occupy the mind with a series of, let's say, "orthodox" information, than necessarily keeping the mind focused on the present moment.
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

ronnymarsh wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:21 pm The most conventional and well-known practice in Buddhism within the Smrti practices is the remembrance of the 4 bases [better known by the Pali term "satipatthana"]. In this practice, one focuses the mind on four objects, recalling Dharma themes about them: body, sensations, mind, and the factors of existence (dharmas).

For each of these objects there are some exercises that must be performed during practice. For meditation on the body, the practitioner must perform fourteen exercises that begin with the observation of the breath and end with the contemplation of death and decomposition of the body. Then the practitioner directs attention to the mental formations, observing them in terms of pleasure, pain or neutrality, and then contemplating the mind (citta) and the formations that arise. These first three objects are introductory to appease mental turmoil, generate detachment and thus be ready to perform the last contemplation that consists of observing the dharmas, which is the structure of reality: five skandhas, six bases, seven factors and four noble truths. .

Basically, the practice consists of remembering the transitory condition of the body, remembering the transitory condition of sensations, remembering the transitory condition of the mind, and remembering the structure of reality (the dharmas) as taught by the Buddha. And it's not necessarily focusing your attention on the present moment, as is commonly advertised. On the contrary, when you are in the last exercise of contemplation of the body, what you do is focus your mind on a distressing point in the future: death and the decomposition of your own body.

These are the objects of contemplation realized in this practice, and form the core of the tripitaka teaching most evident in Theravada Buddhism.
The Agamas, in addition to these, list other objects of contemplation that form a total of 10 fundamental types of objects, which are the basis for the emergence of practices such as Nembustu (Buddha remembrance) and Daimoku (Dharma remembrance), and the In the same way, these do not consist in keeping the attention in the present moment, the practice of Sukhavati contemplation likewise requires the imagination of a realization in the future: birth in that Pure Land after death.

In summary, the term Smrti in Buddhism means more to occupy the mind with a series of, let's say, "orthodox" information, than necessarily keeping the mind focused on the present moment.

Wonderfully said and I am not disagreeing with you on these points of Smrti and I think these should be focused over the modern mindfulness movement, but I was trying to discuss the aspect of present attention with the "orthodox" information being remembered. I am sure we can go on for a long time about modern mindfulness and its deviation from Buddhism, but when I mentioned the present memory I was discussing it when associated with Buddhist teachings. When observing thoughts its important to have awareness or mindfulness on the present sensation, so we can see it clearly and observe them as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. From my understanding this combination as well as the further aspects you discuss in the Agamas/Sutras all encompass mindfulness according to Buddhism. I may be missing some stuff though so feel free to correct me or add more, it's helpful :twothumbsup:
ronnymarsh
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by ronnymarsh »

Well, the practice of Nichiren Buddhism is Faith.
And that doesn't mean that it's merely "belief" in something. The key verse for understanding this subject is in the Jigage: "Isshin Yokken Butsu. Fuji Shaku Shinmyo". [With the unified mind aspiring to see the Buddha, without hesitating even if it costs him his life].
This verse represents the state of mind that the Lotus practitioner should have while performing its practice, and it is the meaning of "faith" in Nichiren's teaching, that is, concentrating solely on seeing the Buddha, without letting the mind change its direction. direction.
So attention to any other object, such as the very thoughts that arise during practice, are not part of the teaching and are impediments for the realization of samadhi to take place.
At first it is an exercise, the only object that must exist in the mental process is the Title, but this is hardly achieved as easily as we can say. So at all times we need to direct our attention to the object of contemplation.
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by Queequeg »

ronnymarsh wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:27 pm The key verse for understanding this subject is in the Jigage: "Isshin Yokken Butsu. Fuji Shaku Shinmyo". [With the unified mind aspiring to see the Buddha, without hesitating even if it costs him his life].
This verse represents the state of mind that the Lotus practitioner should have while performing its practice, and it is the meaning of "faith" in Nichiren's teaching, that is, concentrating solely on seeing the Buddha, without letting the mind change its direction.
What do you base this claim on?

Nichiren defines what he means by 信 in Shishingohonsho. Its not from 信心 ie. sraddha. Its from 信解 ie. adhimukti. His idea of faith is from chapter 17 of the Lotus Sutra, specifically, "after the Tathāgata’s parinirvāṇa, those who hear this sutra do not disparage it..." They don't even need to arouse joy, just refrain from disparaging it after hearing it.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Is mindfulness part of nichiren buddhism?

Post by illarraza »

ronnymarsh wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:27 pm Well, the practice of Nichiren Buddhism is Faith.
And that doesn't mean that it's merely "belief" in something. The key verse for understanding this subject is in the Jigage: "Isshin Yokken Butsu. Fuji Shaku Shinmyo". [With the unified mind aspiring to see the Buddha, without hesitating even if it costs him his life].
This verse represents the state of mind that the Lotus practitioner should have while performing its practice, and it is the meaning of "faith" in Nichiren's teaching, that is, concentrating solely on seeing the Buddha, without letting the mind change its direction. direction.
So attention to any other object, such as the very thoughts that arise during practice, are not part of the teaching and are impediments for the realization of samadhi to take place.
At first it is an exercise, the only object that must exist in the mental process is the Title, but this is hardly achieved as easily as we can say. So at all times we need to direct our attention to the object of contemplation.
Very good point. I often focus on this sentence. There are various translations but all help focus on the very reason for our faith. "And with single mind desire to see the Buddha, not sparing their bodily lives." Also the Kempon Hokke Sino-Japanese of this sentence is "is-shin yoku kem-butsu fu ji shaku shim-myo."

Mark
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