What does sticking with practice tell you?

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bcol01
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What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by bcol01 »

If you find yourself still studying/chanting years later, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that you believe in it?
Does it tell you that it's obviously working or you wouldn't be hangin onto it and studying/chanting, even if inconsistently sometimes?

Would love your thoughts.

With Gassho
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Queequeg
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by Queequeg »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:59 pm If you find yourself still studying/chanting years later, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that you believe in it?
Does it tell you that it's obviously working or you wouldn't be hangin onto it and studying/chanting, even if inconsistently sometimes?

Would love your thoughts.

With Gassho
Well, I don't chant NMRK anymore and am not following the Nichiren path. But, though I might be condemned to avici according to Nichiren, I am still as set in my study and practice of dharma as ever. So, if we can open the conversation up beyond the Nichiren context, here's what I'd say.

According to the Pali canon, after his awakening, the Buddha considered, "He lives unhappily who has nothing to venerate and obey."

We elevate individualism, self-determination, free will, etc. in our society. We have a lot of people who don't believe in anything, don't honor anything. Many have no sense of identity, sense of place or belonging, sense of meaning, sense of duty. Many are profoundly unhappy, and yet others go from distraction to distraction to avoid that emptiness at the core of their being - and not the liberating kind of emptiness the Buddha taught. There is an aspect of Buddhadharma that is like a guide rope that I cling to in the maelstrom of samsara. The question is whether that guide rope is just more suffering.

In my lucid moments, I've examined that guide rope - the Buddhadharma - and I've found it to be true, and I've repeatedly emerged from the maelstrom, examined the rope again and again, and found it to be true, and found it to be securely grounded such that I AM able to find it again and again. It has, I think, advanced me on the path so that I have some working sense of what is actually happening - through the Buddhadharma I've been able to see directly what is happening. The Buddha said, it is like this, and over and over I see that those statements are true.

This path has worked for me so far. It is the path that I am following. I will see where it takes me.

The Buddha followed up that above statement, after considering possibilities of following others -

"There is this Dhamma discovered by me - suppose I lived under that, honouring and respecting that?"
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
bcol01
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by bcol01 »

Thanks, Quee. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and insights. I didn't know you were no longer a Nichiren follower. May I ask, did you notice any changes in your life after you stopped chanting? I often would wonder if bad things would happen if I stopped chanting. Though, I must admit that even w chanting, life isn't always so smooth. I'd love your thoughts on that. Thanks brother

With Gassho

Queequeg wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:20 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:59 pm If you find yourself still studying/chanting years later, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that you believe in it?
Does it tell you that it's obviously working or you wouldn't be hangin onto it and studying/chanting, even if inconsistently sometimes?

Would love your thoughts.

With Gassho
Well, I don't chant NMRK anymore and am not following the Nichiren path. But, though I might be condemned to avici according to Nichiren, I am still as set in my study and practice of dharma as ever. So, if we can open the conversation up beyond the Nichiren context, here's what I'd say.

According to the Pali canon, after his awakening, the Buddha considered, "He lives unhappily who has nothing to venerate and obey."

We elevate individualism, self-determination, free will, etc. in our society. We have a lot of people who don't believe in anything, don't honor anything. Many have no sense of identity, sense of place or belonging, sense of meaning, sense of duty. Many are profoundly unhappy, and yet others go from distraction to distraction to avoid that emptiness at the core of their being - and not the liberating kind of emptiness the Buddha taught. There is an aspect of Buddhadharma that is like a guide rope that I cling to in the maelstrom of samsara. The question is whether that guide rope is just more suffering.

In my lucid moments, I've examined that guide rope - the Buddhadharma - and I've found it to be true, and I've repeatedly emerged from the maelstrom, examined the rope again and again, and found it to be true, and found it to be securely grounded such that I AM able to find it again and again. It has, I think, advanced me on the path so that I have some working sense of what is actually happening - through the Buddhadharma I've been able to see directly what is happening. The Buddha said, it is like this, and over and over I see that those statements are true.

This path has worked for me so far. It is the path that I am following. I will see where it takes me.

The Buddha followed up that above statement, after considering possibilities of following others -

"There is this Dhamma discovered by me - suppose I lived under that, honouring and respecting that?"
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Queequeg
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by Queequeg »

bcol01 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:53 am Thanks, Quee. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and insights. I didn't know you were no longer a Nichiren follower. May I ask, did you notice any changes in your life after you stopped chanting? I often would wonder if bad things would happen if I stopped chanting. Though, I must admit that even w chanting, life isn't always so smooth. I'd love your thoughts on that. Thanks brother

With Gassho
It's my experience. Not sure if it's wisdom.

As for changes before and after ... Not particularly. I didn't fall off the earth and demons didn't devour me alive. It wasn't a turning away. It took me as far as I thought it could. I just moved on to other teachings and practices I had been taking up and thought were important for me to pursue now. The daimoku still inspires me and echoes in my mind - it's probably the first distinct, intentional sound I heard and will probably be the last thought I have. No regrets and no bad feelings. Each step led me here and laid the foundation. Just making my way as best I can work it out.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
illarraza
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by illarraza »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:59 pm If you find yourself still studying/chanting years later, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that you believe in it?
Does it tell you that it's obviously working or you wouldn't be hangin onto it and studying/chanting, even if inconsistently sometimes?

Would love your thoughts.

With Gassho
I'm alive, joyful, and vibrant despite having a terminal illness for 6 years. I feel that I can go another 10-15 years or more thanks to Namu myoho renge kyo (I'm 66 y/o). If I were to quit chanting after more than forty years, how could I continue to prove the power of Namu myoho renge kyo? Nichiren is my example. He didn't have an easy life but never gave up, realizing his goal of having millions chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo. Nichiren desired little, teaching that fame and profit are mere baubles. Since life is the greatest treasure, every day that we wake up should be filled with wonder and gratitude and for the most part, this is how I feel. I take the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren seriously. Should we stop chanting we will fall into the Avici Hell. Mere disbelief is the cause for falling into hell (Chapter 3 of the Lotus Sutra, Simile and Parable of the Burning House). Chapter 16 teaches that those who are gentle and pliant will see the Buddha. I see the Buddha whenever I chant or contemplate the true aspect of human life. When I make a mistake or anger, I sit upright and ponder the ultimate reality (Myoho). When I ask myself (though infrequently), "why me", I immediately understand that over hundreds of gazillion googleplex lifetimes, I and I alone am the cause of my sufferings today. At the same time, I believe the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren that the only way to quickly lessen our karmic consequences accummulated over gazillion googleplex lifetimes, is to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. I am certain that I will be a Wheel Turning King in the future. This is the place we live to enjoy happiness and I am happy.
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Minobu
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by Minobu »

Nothing to prove...only awareness to be had.
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Minobu
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by Minobu »

illarraza wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:45 am . I am certain that I will be a Wheel Turning King in the future. This is the place we live to enjoy happiness and I am happy.
Wheel Turning Kings ,are not fanatics, for they allow for all the Buddha's practices that come about from The Buddha turning The Dharma wheel.

When The Buddha Turns The Dharma Wheel all sorts of practices , philosophies and yes religions that suit individual sentients appear in the Saha world.

Each one different but perfect for this so and so and that so and so.

so enjoy illarazza becoming a protector of all these practices , philosophies and religions that appear in the saha world from the Buddha turning the Dharma Wheel.

it will be good for ya !
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Minobu
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by Minobu »

I would like to add to that Love and compassion is the number one attribute to any philosophy religion practice coming about by the turning of the Dharma Wheel.
This of course is what was told to me by my beloved Kalden Geshe La. It’s been debated here at DW. Which of course is always welcome
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by illarraza »

Minobu wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:07 am
illarraza wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:45 am . I am certain that I will be a Wheel Turning King in the future. This is the place we live to enjoy happiness and I am happy.
Wheel Turning Kings ,are not fanatics, for they allow for all the Buddha's practices that come about from The Buddha turning The Dharma wheel.

When The Buddha Turns The Dharma Wheel all sorts of practices , philosophies and yes religions that suit individual sentients appear in the Saha world.

Each one different but perfect for this so and so and that so and so.

so enjoy illarazza becoming a protector of all these practices , philosophies and religions that appear in the saha world from the Buddha turning the Dharma Wheel.

it will be good for ya !
We already have the nature of a Wheel Turning King, according to Nichiren, There are Wheel Turning Kings of the Provisional Teachings and wheel Turning Kings of the essential Teachings, depending on the time. Why would a Wheel Turning King in this Latter Age promote an ineffective faith and practice?

From the True Object of Worship:

"Now, the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra says that Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, attained Buddhahood numberless major world system dust particle kalpas ago, and that the cause that made this possible was the practice he had carried out at that time. Since then he has manifested emanation bodies throughout the worlds of the ten directions and preached all the sacred teachings of his lifetime to teach and convert people as numerous as the dust particles of the land. When we compare the number of disciples in the essential teaching with that of disciples in the theoretical teaching, the former is like the ocean, and the latter, like a drop of water, or the one, like a great mountain, and the other, like a speck of dust. What is more, a bodhisattva of the essential teaching is far p.361superior to any bodhisattva of the theoretical teaching, including Manjushrī, Perceiver of the World’s Sounds, or any of the others who gathered from the worlds in the ten directions. The difference between them is even greater than that between Shakra and a monkey. Are you saying that besides these bodhisattvas, the persons of the two vehicles who obtained their enlightenment by destroying their illusions, Brahmā, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, the four heavenly kings, the four wheel-turning kings, and the immense flames of the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering—all beings and all things in the ten directions are inherent in the Ten Worlds and in the three thousand realms of our own lives? Even if you say that this is what the Buddha taught, I still cannot believe it.?

Nichiren believed that the only way to create the Buddha's Land is to convert a powerful, compassionate Wheel Rolling King who is one of the Four Great Bodhisattvas and to have Enlightened Priests as his high ministers.

"The present ruler of Japan is in a position to do the same. If he will put his faith in this great pure Law, which assures its believers of “peace and security in their present existence and good circumstances in future existences,” and propagate it throughout the nation, then he will be looked up to by the people of all the provinces, and his name will be handed down in later ages as that of a worthy man. Indeed, he may come to be regarded as a manifestation of Bodhisattva Boundless Practices. And the wise man who works to propagate the five characters of the Mystic Law, no matter how lowly his station, should be looked upon as a manifestation of Bodhisattva Superior Practices, or perhaps as an envoy of Shakyamuni Thus Come One.

The bodhisattvas Medicine King, Medicine Superior, Perceiver of the World’s Sounds, and Great Power, on the other hand, were envoys of the Buddha during the two thousand years of the Former and Middle Days of the Law. Because their turn has already passed, they can no longer benefit people as they did in those ancient times. Just observe what happens when prayers are offered to them at present! All such prayers go unanswered. Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, it is the turn of the bodhisattvas Superior Practices, Boundless Practices, and the others." - How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can Attain Buddhahoodthrough theLotus Sutra

"Know this: in the time for the practice of shakubuku the four bodhisattvas appear as worthy rulers who rebuke and convert ignorant rulers, and in the time for the practice of shōju they appear as priests to embrace and spread the correct teaching." - The True Object of Worship

The Bodhisattvas of the Earth are those who received the Law of Namu Myoho renge kyo from Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo chapter of the Lotus Sutra in the remotest past and who spread the Law in this Latter Age. There are Four Great Leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth and the supreme leader is Jogyo Nichiren. Each of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth represent one of the Four Virtues of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth: Jogyo, Superior, or Emminent Conduct (Nichiren) represents True or Unconditioned Self; Muhengyo or Boundless Practices represents Eternity; Anrugyo or Firmly Established Practices represents Joy; and Jyogyo or Pure Practices represents Purity, As we see, the leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are most often born as Wheel Turning Kings. We could sure use one today!

Lastly, Nichiren taught in the Opening of the Eyes: “This sutra is the wheel-turning king among all sutras." In this Latter Day, the Wheel Turning King will teach only Namu Myoho renge kyo and the Lotus Sutra.

M
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Minobu
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

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If you look at the various Nichiren sects one can see that different sects are many. This accommodated for various types of practitioners to be able to practice according to their current level and personality or capacity.

So even in Nichiren based teachings dogma shifts to suit the various practitioners. So the Buddha of the Lotus Sutra turns a Dharma Wheel and various methods and variations appear.

This is the nature of the Dharma Wheel.

If it wasn’t for Tendai it’s quite possible Nichiren would not have something to work from.

Of course Nichiren went far beyond Zhiyi’s theory. Left a vehicle far superior for mappo. All due to the turning of a Dharma Wheel by the Lotus Sutra Buddha.
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

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"If it wasn’t for Tendai, it’s quite possible Nichiren would not have something to work from." I second that.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

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bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:40 am "If it wasn’t for Tendai, it’s quite possible Nichiren would not have something to work from." I second that.
I third it.
Moreover it's worth recalling that Dogen, Honen, Shinran, and Eisei all began their careers under the Tendai banner too. The core movements of Kamakura Buddhism were all birthed from the womb of Tendai. And while each of these towering figures rejected Tendai, often radically, they were all marked indelibly by it too and retained more of its flavor than perhaps they would care to admit.

I see Kamakura Buddhism not as a rejection of Tendai Hongaku-shiso and Taimitsu, as often superficially considered, but ultimately a modulation of both.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
bcol01
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by bcol01 »

Yea there's def a lot of overlap there.
FiveSkandhas wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:44 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:40 am "If it wasn’t for Tendai, it’s quite possible Nichiren would not have something to work from." I second that.
I third it.
Moreover it's worth recalling that Dogen, Honen, Shinran, and Eisei all began their careers under the Tendai banner too. The core movements of Kamakura Buddhism were all birthed from the womb of Tendai. And while each of these towering figures rejected Tendai, often radically, they were all marked indelibly by it too and retained more of its flavor than perhaps they would care to admit.

I see Kamakura Buddhism not as a rejection of Tendai Hongaku-shiso and Taimitsu, as often superficially considered, but ultimately a modulation of both.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
illarraza
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Re: What does sticking with practice tell you?

Post by illarraza »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:44 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:40 am "If it wasn’t for Tendai, it’s quite possible Nichiren would not have something to work from." I second that.
I third it.
Moreover it's worth recalling that Dogen, Honen, Shinran, and Eisei all began their careers under the Tendai banner too. The core movements of Kamakura Buddhism were all birthed from the womb of Tendai. And while each of these towering figures rejected Tendai, often radically, they were all marked indelibly by it too and retained more of its flavor than perhaps they would care to admit.

I see Kamakura Buddhism not as a rejection of Tendai Hongaku-shiso and Taimitsu, as often superficially considered, but ultimately a modulation of both.
I disagree. if we admit that Nichiren was indeed Bodhisattva Superior (or Emminent) Practice, the original disciple of the Eternal Buddha since the infinite past, by the principle of auspicious causation, he would have revealed Namu Myoho renge kyo and Gohonzon independently of Tientai. Nichiren utilized many sources to lend credibility to the teachings of Namu Myoho renge kyo and the Object of Worship. Tientai's and Dengyo's Ichinen Sanzen was theoretical while Nichiren's is actual:

"There are two ways of perceiving the three thousand realms in a single moment of life. One is theoretical, and the other, actual. What T’ien-t’ai and Dengyō practiced was theoretical, but what I practice now is actual. Because what I practice is superior, the difficulties attending it are that much greater. The doctrine of T’ien-t’ai and Dengyō was the three thousand realms in a single moment of life of the theoretical teaching, while mine is that of the essential teaching. These two are as different as heaven is from earth. You should grasp this deeply when the time comes to face death."

Mark
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