If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

bcol01
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If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

It seems each sect has an agenda, a sort of exclusivity or deifying of their leader/founder thing going on. I have always enjoyed learning independently but am concerned that I'm neglecting to find a sangha. How can I square away w this?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

One of the best things about being in a "sect' is the access to teachers. I needed a teacher

But different strokes and all that
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

Are you a member of a temple now?
Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:53 pm One of the best things about being in a "sect' is the access to teachers. I needed a teacher

But different strokes and all that
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Yes I'm s member of nichiren shoshu my temple is in my sig. Myosestuji temple NYC
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
narhwal90
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by narhwal90 »

I think finding a sangha where you can really sink your teeth into practice with others is super important. I remember a bit of that from the old NSA days but I never had much of a connection with the N.Shoshu priesthood, nor to Mr Ikeda... otoh my friends from the old days are in SGI so it is nice to practice with them, to stay in touch and there are glimmers of real study that happen. But for deep consistent face-to-face practice I went elsewhere- soto zen in my case.

That said, detailed work in soto has brought many aspects of Nichiren practice into a wider perspective- I appreciate it more now, grasp at the views less, and am more grateful for what is shared in SGI meetings.
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

Yea prob so, I just don't want to be part of one particular group. I'm sure Nichiren knew that not everyone could find a temple. What then?
narhwal90 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:36 pm I think finding a sangha where you can really sink your teeth into practice with others is super important. I remember a bit of that from the old NSA days but I never had much of a connection with the N.Shoshu priesthood, nor to Mr Ikeda... otoh my friends from the old days are in SGI so it is nice to practice with them, to stay in touch and there are glimmers of real study that happen. But for deep consistent face-to-face practice I went elsewhere- soto zen in my case.

That said, detailed work in soto has brought many aspects of Nichiren practice into a wider perspective- I appreciate it more now, grasp at the views less, and am more grateful for what is shared in SGI meetings.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

I always found the image of Nichiren shivering in his isolated Sado-shima shack of exile rather romantic...it seems to me a path well suited to the isolated soul, although of course a sangha is always a good thing.

But given all the intersectarian brouhaha between Nichiren groups over the centuries, I have a certain respect for the "independents" who boldy jettison the whole sectarian ball of wax and stride out on their own. It seems refreshing somehow.

Maybe a decade and a half ago I read an excellent net-published "guide for independent Nichiren practice" that one of these noble loners put together. And made available for free download. Although not a Nichiren follower myself, I was very impressed with his presentation of Nichiren Buddhism as a solitary pursuit. Sadly this text seems to have vanished into the ether.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

I do remember that pdf site. I think his name was Greg something. Sad to see it gone. Yea on what you said, I just feel like in a way yea it'd be nice to find a temple that aligns with what I believe is the essence of the LS but what I have found is a way of summing it all up and from there, I just use forums, books, engagements with others/learning regarding Nichiren and then just do my best if you will. Not easy, but if it keeps me practicing...so be it?

I can't imagine how Nichiren must have felt shivering in his dwelling, but it's def powerful when you see how he viewed Buddhahood and, stuck through thick and thin. An incredible life indeed.
FiveSkandhas wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00 am I always found the image of Nichiren shivering in his isolated Sado-shima shack of exile rather romantic...it seems to me a path well suited to the isolated soul, although of course a sangha is always a good thing.

But given all the intersectarian brouhaha between Nichiren groups over the centuries, I have a certain respect for the "independents" who boldy jettison the whole sectarian ball of wax and stride out on their own. It seems refreshing somehow.

Maybe a decade and a half ago I read an excellent net-published "guide for independent Nichiren practice" that one of these noble loners put together. And made available for free download. Although not a Nichiren follower myself, I was very impressed with his presentation of Nichiren Buddhism as a solitary pursuit. Sadly this text seems to have vanished into the ether.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
markatex
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by markatex »

I think people have unrealistic expectations of what a sangha, temple, sect or group is or should be. When they’re inevitably disappointed, they become disillusioned and walk away.

You’re not going to find a bunch of enlightened people. You’re going to find people with egos, neuroses, bad habits, nutty opinions, and personal traumas. And you’re going to find priests like that. But many of those same people also have a lot of wisdom, heart, and experience that are invaluable.

If you’re looking for purity or perfection, or anything close to that, you will always be disappointed.
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

Hey mark, it's not about the people. Diff groups and sects believe and practice diff and finding which one resonates with me hasn't been fruitful.
markatex wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:14 am I think people have unrealistic expectations of what a sangha, temple, sect or group is or should be. When they’re inevitably disappointed, they become disillusioned and walk away.

You’re not going to find a bunch of enlightened people. You’re going to find people with egos, neuroses, bad habits, nutty opinions, and personal traumas. And you’re going to find priests like that. But many of those same people also have a lot of wisdom, heart, and experience that are invaluable.

If you’re looking for purity or perfection, or anything close to that, you will always be disappointed.
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
markatex
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by markatex »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:26 pmHey mark, it's not about the people. Diff groups and sects believe and practice diff and finding which one resonates with me hasn't been fruitful.
Hmm....I don't know if I have any advice for that. In general, I worry that with an "independent" approach, there's a tendency to default to your own ideas and preferences too much. What have you found lacking, in particular?
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

There are over 70 different Nichiren sects registered in Japan, and most of them claim they alone possess the truth and the others are charlatans. Faced with what appears to be a morass like that, going it on your own somehow seems attractive, at least on my eyes.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
illarraza
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by illarraza »

markatex wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:18 am
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:26 pmHey mark, it's not about the people. Diff groups and sects believe and practice diff and finding which one resonates with me hasn't been fruitful.
Hmm....I don't know if I have any advice for that. In general, I worry that with an "independent" approach, there's a tendency to default to your own ideas and preferences too much. What have you found lacking, in particular?
I think Nichiju the founder of the Kempon Hokke had it right, "The Succession/Transmission is Through the Scrolls of the Sutra (Lotus Sutra and Gohonzon) and the writings of Nichiren Daishonin.

M
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:55 am There are over 70 different Nichiren sects registered in Japan, and most of them claim they alone possess the truth and the others are charlatans. Faced with what appears to be a morass like that, going it on your own somehow seems attractive, at least on my eyes.
It's not just nichiren sects that claim to possess the truth and others charlatans. Most forms of Buddhism are triumphalist. And claim to possess the way.

buddhism does this as a whole and anytime spent in Tibetan Buddhist forum for example will show it's not unique to nichiren sects or even East Asian Buddhism.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:58 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:55 am There are over 70 different Nichiren sects registered in Japan, and most of them claim they alone possess the truth and the others are charlatans. Faced with what appears to be a morass like that, going it on your own somehow seems attractive, at least on my eyes.
It's not just nichiren sects that claim to possess the truth and others charlatans. Most forms of Buddhism are triumphalist. And claim to possess the way.

buddhism does this as a whole and anytime spent in Tibetan Buddhist forum for example will show it's not unique to nichiren sects or even East Asian Buddhism.
Oh I completely agree with you. Pretty much every sect in Kamakura Buddhism was roooted in exclusivity, and even though the Heian and Nara sects were not as explicit, they all claimed to be the top sect in their own self-centered hierarchies.

Nevertheless, the sheer number of sperate Nichiren sects and the particular vigor with which they pursued their claims does, in my opinion, put them in a special category all their own.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
illarraza
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by illarraza »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:30 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:58 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:55 am There are over 70 different Nichiren sects registered in Japan, and most of them claim they alone possess the truth and the others are charlatans. Faced with what appears to be a morass like that, going it on your own somehow seems attractive, at least on my eyes.
It's not just nichiren sects that claim to possess the truth and others charlatans. Most forms of Buddhism are triumphalist. And claim to possess the way.

buddhism does this as a whole and anytime spent in Tibetan Buddhist forum for example will show it's not unique to nichiren sects or even East Asian Buddhism.
Oh I completely agree with you. Pretty much every sect in Kamakura Buddhism was roooted in exclusivity, and even though the Heian and Nara sects were not as explicit, they all claimed to be the top sect in their own self-centered hierarchies.

Nevertheless, the sheer number of sperate Nichiren sects and the particular vigor with which they pursued their claims does, in my opinion, put them in a special category all their own.
There is a Facebook page Stand together Nichiren Buddhists and Reddit Nichiren too will not allow criticism of the various sects or practitioners.

Mark
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

I see what you're saying.
In general, I'm not sure what's lacking. Maybe it's the group's view on certain doctrinal matters or there infatuation with their leadership rather than the teachings. I'm still wading around in non-sectarianville trying to sort it all out.
markatex wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:18 am
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:26 pmHey mark, it's not about the people. Diff groups and sects believe and practice diff and finding which one resonates with me hasn't been fruitful.
Hmm....I don't know if I have any advice for that. In general, I worry that with an "independent" approach, there's a tendency to default to your own ideas and preferences too much. What have you found lacking, in particular?
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by narhwal90 »

bcol01 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm I do remember that pdf site. I think his name was Greg something. Sad to see it gone. Yea on what you said, I just feel like in a way yea it'd be nice to find a temple that aligns with what I believe is the essence of the LS but what I have found is a way of summing it all up and from there, I just use forums, books, engagements with others/learning regarding Nichiren and then just do my best if you will. Not easy, but if it keeps me practicing...so be it?

I can't imagine how Nichiren must have felt shivering in his dwelling, but it's def powerful when you see how he viewed Buddhahood and, stuck through thick and thin. An incredible life indeed.
FiveSkandhas wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00 am I always found the image of Nichiren shivering in his isolated Sado-shima shack of exile rather romantic...it seems to me a path well suited to the isolated soul, although of course a sangha is always a good thing.

But given all the intersectarian brouhaha between Nichiren groups over the centuries, I have a certain respect for the "independents" who boldy jettison the whole sectarian ball of wax and stride out on their own. It seems refreshing somehow.

Maybe a decade and a half ago I read an excellent net-published "guide for independent Nichiren practice" that one of these noble loners put together. And made available for free download. Although not a Nichiren follower myself, I was very impressed with his presentation of Nichiren Buddhism as a solitary pursuit. Sadly this text seems to have vanished into the ether.

If anyone has a hint as to where that site might be archived, or if its available via the various wayback things- or even better can get a backup, I'd be glad to rehost the pages like we did with the old Nichiren Coffeehouse site a couple years ago.
bcol01
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by bcol01 »

well they would have hated Nichiren.
illarraza wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:37 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:30 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:58 pm

It's not just nichiren sects that claim to possess the truth and others charlatans. Most forms of Buddhism are triumphalist. And claim to possess the way.

buddhism does this as a whole and anytime spent in Tibetan Buddhist forum for example will show it's not unique to nichiren sects or even East Asian Buddhism.
Oh I completely agree with you. Pretty much every sect in Kamakura Buddhism was roooted in exclusivity, and even though the Heian and Nara sects were not as explicit, they all claimed to be the top sect in their own self-centered hierarchies.

Nevertheless, the sheer number of sperate Nichiren sects and the particular vigor with which they pursued their claims does, in my opinion, put them in a special category all their own.
There is a Facebook page Stand together Nichiren Buddhists and Reddit Nichiren too will not allow criticism of the various sects or practitioners.

Mark
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
illarraza
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Re: If one cannot find the right Nichiren sect to be a part of, then is going ones' own way the best route?

Post by illarraza »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:56 pm
bcol01 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm I do remember that pdf site. I think his name was Greg something. Sad to see it gone. Yea on what you said, I just feel like in a way yea it'd be nice to find a temple that aligns with what I believe is the essence of the LS but what I have found is a way of summing it all up and from there, I just use forums, books, engagements with others/learning regarding Nichiren and then just do my best if you will. Not easy, but if it keeps me practicing...so be it?

I can't imagine how Nichiren must have felt shivering in his dwelling, but it's def powerful when you see how he viewed Buddhahood and, stuck through thick and thin. An incredible life indeed.
FiveSkandhas wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00 am I always found the image of Nichiren shivering in his isolated Sado-shima shack of exile rather romantic...it seems to me a path well suited to the isolated soul, although of course a sangha is always a good thing.

But given all the intersectarian brouhaha between Nichiren groups over the centuries, I have a certain respect for the "independents" who boldy jettison the whole sectarian ball of wax and stride out on their own. It seems refreshing somehow.

Maybe a decade and a half ago I read an excellent net-published "guide for independent Nichiren practice" that one of these noble loners put together. And made available for free download. Although not a Nichiren follower myself, I was very impressed with his presentation of Nichiren Buddhism as a solitary pursuit. Sadly this text seems to have vanished into the ether.

If anyone has a hint as to where that site might be archived, or if its available via the various wayback things- or even better can get a backup, I'd be glad to rehost the pages like we did with the old Nichiren Coffeehouse site a couple years ago.
http://geraldaitkenwriter.weebly.com/up ... ddhism.pdf
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