Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:50 pm
i get that matter is empty of inherent existence...

how does emptiness become matter....did you misspoke.
If I mispoke, the Buddha mispoke, because I was just directly quoting the Heart Sūtra.

Since matter and emptiness are inseparable, whatever is matter is empty, and whatever is empty is matter. To extend the quote, whatever is a sensation is empty, whatever is empty is a sensation, etc. There is actually a means of understanding this four-fold emptiness. My teacher, Lama Migmar, explains it in detail here:




i was happy to see you admitting that there is suffering...

it might not be inherent but it does exist...

I never, ever, suggested otherwise, anywhere, in any forum.
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 4228
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Post by Minobu »

Thank you Loppon malcolm for responding
Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:31 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:50 pm
i get that matter is empty of inherent existence...

how does emptiness become matter....did you misspoke.
If I mispoke, the Buddha mispoke, because I was just directly quoting the Heart Sūtra.

Since matter and emptiness are inseparable, whatever is matter is empty, and whatever is empty is matter. To extend the quote, whatever is a sensation is empty, whatever is empty is a sensation, etc. There is actually a means of understanding this four-fold emptiness. My teacher, Lama Migmar, explains it in detail here:




i was happy to see you admitting that there is suffering...

it might not be inherent but it does exist...

I never, ever, suggested otherwise, anywhere, in any forum.
first up i was just really upset with your conversation btw you and QQ.. as you said you had this convo before and he was insisting that there is no suffering due to nihilistic tendencies...

this is where i had the other problem after re reading it several times over a few days.
Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:34 pm

Why? "Matter is empty, emptiness is matter; apart from matter there is no emptiness; apart from emptiness there is no matter, the same for sensation. perception, formation, and consciousness."
when you first wrote this
apart from emptiness there is no matter
i just don't get that?

maybe it was the way you translated it from the text...i dunno...it just sounds weird to me...


now this seems to be a direct quote from the text
whatever is matter is empty, and whatever is empty is matter
what about buddha nature?
is this not empty of inherent existence as well ?


i guess it was dealing with concept of matter ..so you are talking about matter only ,in this case...

and for sure all matter is empty...but how is
and whatever is empty is matter
when everything , even love a non matter concept is empty...

it's just you said it in a way that one thinks that only matter is empty...


sorry Loppon Malcolm...

but all we have are words...and in this case it takes real care to word this correctly...

i did not mean to accuse of
misspoke
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:07 pm Thank you Loppon malcolm for responding
The Heart of the Perfection of Wisdom
In Sanskrit: Bhagavati prajnaparamitahrdaya
In Tibetan: Bcom Idan 'das ma shes rab kyi pha rol tu phyin pa'I snying po
In English: The Heart of the Perfection of Wisdom, the Bhagavati

Thus have I once heard:

The Blessed One was staying in Rajagrha at Vulture Peak along with a great community of monks and great community of bodhisattvas, and at that time, the Blessed One fully entered the meditative concentration on the varieties of phenomena called the Appearance of the Profound. At that very time as well, holy Avalokitsevara, the bodhisattva, the great being, beheld the practice itself of the profound perfection of wisdom, and he even saw the five aggregates as empty of inherent nature. Thereupon, through the Buddha's inspiration, the venerable Sariputra spoke to holy Avalokitsevara, the bodhisattva, the great being, and said, "Any noble son who wishes to engage in the practice of the profound perfection of wisdom should train in what way?"

When this had been said, holy Avalokitsevara, the bodhisattva, the great being, spoke to venerable Sariputra and said, "Sariputra, any noble sons or daughters who wish to practice the perfection of wisdom should see this way: they should see insightfully, correctly, and repeatedly that even the five aggregates are empty of inherent nature. Form is empty, emptiness is form, Emptiness is not other than form, form is also not other than emptiness. Likewise, sensation, discrimination, conditioning, and awareness are empty. In this way, Sariputra, all things are emptiness; they are without defining characteristics; they are not born, they do not cease, they are not defiled, they are not undefiled. They have no increase, they have no decrease.

"Therefore, Sariputra, in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, no discrimination, no conditioning, and no awareness. There is no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. There is no form, no sound, no smell, no taste, no texture, no phenomenon. There is no eye-element and so on up to no mind-element and also up to no element of mental awareness. There is no ignorance and no elimination of ignorance and so on up to no aging and death and no elimination of aging and death. Likewise, there is no suffering, origin, cessation, or path; there is no wisdom, no attainment, and even no non-attainment.

"Therefore, Sariputra, since the bodhisattvas have no obtainments, they abide relying on the perfection of wisdom. Having no defilements in their minds, they have no fear, and passing completely beyond error, they reach nirvana. Likewise, all the Buddhas abiding in the three times clearly and completely awaken to unexcelled, authentic, and complete awakening in dependence upon the perfection of wisdom.

"Therefore, one should know that the mantra of the perfection of wisdom - the mantra of great knowledge, the precious mantra, the unexcelled mantra, the mantra equal to the unequalled, the mantra that quells all suffering - is true because it is not deceptive. The mantra of the perfection of wisdom is proclaimed:

tadyatha - gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha!

Sariputra, a bodhisattva, a great being, should train in the profound perfection of wisdom in that way."

Thereupon, the Blessed One arose for that meditative concentration, and he commended holy Avalokitsevara, the bodhisattva, the great being. "Excellent!" he said. "Excellent! Excellent! Noble child, it is just so. Noble child, it is just so. One should practice the profound perfection of wisdom in the manner that you have revealed - the Tathagatas rejoice!" This is what the Blessed One said.

Thereupon, the venerable Sariputra, the holy Avalokitsevara, the bodhisattva, the great being, and that entire assembly along with the world of gods, humans, asuras, and gandharvas, all rejoiced and highly praised what the Blessed One had said.
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 4228
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Post by Minobu »

Well Loppon Malcolm I shall retire...
and ponder ...

thank you..
ronnymarsh
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:52 am

Re: Three thousand thoughts in a single life moment..

Post by ronnymarsh »

bcol01 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:25 pm I'm still trying to understand this. Would love your insights on the subject. I want to understand better. :namaste:
一念三千 [ichinen sanzen] literally means "ONE" [一] "STATE OF ATTENTION" [念] (contains) "THREE THOUSAND" [三千].

The translation as "three thousand thoughts in a single moment of life" is not entirely correct (although it does not mean that it is completely wrong). It is used by the Soka Gakkai to adapt Tientai's doctrine to Josei Toda's thinking about "vital force".

This "nen" [念] of "ichinen" corresponds to the Sanskrit "smrti" (in pali: sati), which literally means "to remember", although in Western Buddhism people translate it as "mindfullness", and corresponds to a practice specific Buddhist.

In Classical Sutras, like Nikayas, there are 4 foundations for "nen", in Pali they are called "satipatthana" and in Sanskrit "smrtyupasthana", which consists of remembering 4 considerations.

In the Chinese Agamas, in addition to these four considerations, there are 10 other considerations that should be remembered by the Buddhist practitioner. The first of these considerations is the so-called Nembutsu [念仏], the second is the so-called "Nen-ho" [remember the Dharma], among others.

This "nen" 念 is the same as 一念 "ichinen". In other words, literally, the term is not a "moment of life", but rather a state of attention, a circumstance provided by the practice of Buddhist meditation.

That is to say, a moment of "mindfulness" contains all 3,000 realms of existence 三千.

This perspective is a way of expounding the Mahayana doctrine as it is expounded in the Lotus Sutra.

In the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra in the Chinese version of Kumarajiva [this does not exist in the other Chinese versions nor in Sanskrit] we have the exposition of the 10 thusness (ju nyo ze), which in the liturgy of most Nichirenist schools is repeated three times during the recitation of the Sutra. These ten elements deal with the ten aspects of "complete reality" (nyo ze -> "thus").

When these ten aspects that make up reality are thought of in terms of the ten realms [six of samsara and four outside of samsara], each of which contains all ten realms along with the three elements of manifestation of existence [five aggregates of the subject, the environment and the beings that live in the realm] (10 * 10 * 10 * 3) we have reached the number of 3000 "dharmas", or 3000 realms of existence.

This means in practice that the real nature of each of these 3000 dharmas is "ichinen", or the "unique moment of attention". That is, each dharma, from those in the lowest state as well as that in the highest state, has no inherent quality that can be distinguished between them.

The big difference between this perspective of Tientai and that of classical Buddhism is that dharmas are extended to terms of environment and society.

In classical Buddhism (from the Sutras) the dharmas analyzed are these:
- 5 aggregates (form, perception, sensation, volition and consciousness) that make up an individual.
- 6 senses (sight, hearing, touch, smell and taste)
- 12 sense bases (6 organs + 6 objects when they come into contact)
- 18 spheres (the result of the process between the previous elements).

Here, Buddhism thinks only in terms of the subject, but in the Tientai school, from the Lotus Sutra onwards, dharmas are also thought of in terms of objects: the environment and the other subjects that make up that society.

Thus, not only sensitive beings have the possibility of achieving enlightenment, but also the insensitive beings that make up the environment (the earth, more specifically).

The essential state of each of these dharmas, both in terms of subject and object, is 'Ichinen', a state of unified mind in mindfulness.
------------------------------------------------- ------

But one important thing: the ichinen sanzen in Nichiren's teaching is "Ji no Ichinen Sanzen", or "ichinen sanzen of reality", whereas what I said corresponds to "Ri no Ichinen Sanzen", or "ichinen sanzen principles".
Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”