re inventing Nichiren

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Caoimhghín
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Caoimhghín »

Minobu wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:11 pmI don't know if you went over to the Ten Dai section but ichinen sanzen is on very thin ice right now.

It appears that a guy made it all up and hung the hidden in the Lotus sutra label on it for authenticity
What are you talking about here? Responses you received on your "In the weeds" thread?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Minobu
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Caoimhghín wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:05 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:11 pmI don't know if you went over to the Ten Dai section but ichinen sanzen is on very thin ice right now.

It appears that a guy made it all up and hung the hidden in the Lotus sutra label on it for authenticity
What are you talking about here? Responses you received on your "In the weeds" thread?
going over there for a look see...

dude Loppon Malcolm opened my eyes to this...

of course there will be hanger on er Ten Dai folk...

but the toothpaste is out the tube...

unless of course you can give me some concrete text that teaches ichinen sanzen in the Lotus sutra ...

it's not there...it's some dude making something up to get a living from the emperor who asked for it...

i read where Ten Dai was asked by the emperor to make some huge contribution to buddhism , a made in china happening....


well now the Blow Back.


q called me stupid...you insulted me with this is the craziest thing you came up with...which turned out to be some weird learning experience for me to see you people...i went blank for some reason on sunyata...and thought malcolm was doing some add on thing....


i did not even google it for awhile till you all gloated at the stupidity of Minobu...

then it's like i google it..and like what The F...how could i go blank...i posted it and was somehow deleted...a sentence out of a post...

you people think you know and yet your hanging unto man made nothingness doctrine....doesn;t even make sense ichinen sanzen is like a childish way of observing anger....lol...

I'm happy ...The Entity showed me once again what i am involved with...

And only Loppon Malcolm has the kahunas to say it...
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by tkp67 »

Minobu wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:11 pm
tkp67 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:54 am if you want to understand Nichiren position you need to contemplate the lotus as it appears in one's own life.

Understanding the ten realms is critical. Understanding mutual possession from the perspective of Shakyamuni, Nichiren and one's self is also of prime importance.

When a buddha preaches the true aspect how does it appear to those minds that manifest the lower realms?

hide your head in the sand...but Ichinen sanzen cannot be derived from the Lotus Sutra...
This does not change across translations as I have already posted them on prior occasions.

The nine realms are a facet of the great vehicle.

More importantly is the mutual possession expressed in the same passage. More importantly is the understanding that when Shakyamuni converted all bodhisattva and made all beings equal he envisioned all beings enlightenment. It cannot be proven false and to do so is to deny one's own inherent buddha nature and that of others.
Up to now I have never told you
that you were certain to attain the buddha way.
The reason I never preached in that manner
was that the time to preach so had not yet come.
But now is the very time
when I must decisively preach the great vehicle.
I use these nine devices,
adapting them to the living beings when I preach,
my basic aim being to lead them into the great vehicle,
and that is why I preach this sutra.
Expedient Means

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/2

All you beings of the three realms are actually identical to Buddhas,the ground of all. But your misunderstanding of the ground causes you to goastray, so you act without aim.
The prayer of Kuntuzangpo

http://www.rigdzindharma.org/uploads/6/ ... zangpo.pdf

There are other Lamas that translate it the same. :anjali:
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LastLegend
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by LastLegend »

tkp67 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:27 pm
This does not change across translations as I have already posted them on prior occasions.

The nine realms are a facet of the great vehicle.

More importantly is the mutual possession expressed in the same passage. More importantly is the understanding that when Shakyamuni converted all bodhisattva and made all beings equal he envisioned all beings enlightenment. It cannot be proven false and to do so is to deny one's own inherent buddha nature and that of others.
Up to now I have never told you
that you were certain to attain the buddha way.
The reason I never preached in that manner
was that the time to preach so had not yet come.
But now is the very time
when I must decisively preach the great vehicle.
I use these nine devices,
adapting them to the living beings when I preach,
my basic aim being to lead them into the great vehicle,
and that is why I preach this sutra.

Your understanding is correct. It’s not mutually exclusive to practice Nichiren Buddhism and able to use expedient means. How to use expedient means? That’s a mystery. There is a lot of things we face in our way that hold us back.

As for Minobu, he is happy that he found a good concoction that works and doesn’t care about other crap. Which is fine.
It’s eye blinking.
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Minobu
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

LastLegend wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:06 pm
As for Minobu, he is happy that he found a good concoction that works and doesn’t care about other crap. Which is fine.
lol there is hope for me liking you yet...lol...

it's not some expedient it is something made up by a guy to look like he knew something no one else knew.


The whole kamakura what ever japan era of this influx of buddhism shows the medieval nightmare of their intellect...

it's like North american Indians selling manhattan for beads...

Like me ole man said ..america wasn't bought from the Indians with money...it was a mirror on the end of a string...

and yet this was all going down in the name of the Buddha....hogwash .. Nichiren knew...but could only go so far...


I tell you this ...there is a Buddha or entity of MyoHo RenGe Kyo...and all this other crap is man made nonsense ...people will try to hold unto it like tkp...justify with upaya and expedient means bullshit...

too funny...

for me All that is important is what i connect with when i chant Daimoku with an image of Gohonzon...

it really does open your eyes to the absolute horror of it all...abject horror in the name of Buddha...what lengths people will go to to hold unto myths...
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by narhwal90 »

Removed post containing excessive quotation.
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Minobu
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

So if not for ZHi Yi ...no ODaimoku...
Seishin wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:56 am Well let's think for a second; the daimoku isn't the sanskrit title of the text. It is a translation, and many scholars suggest, not a good one. You'll also not find a single line in the sutra that suggests chanting the title will bring... well, anything. It was Zhiyi, the guy you've completely and utterly ripped apart and insulted in the Nichiren forum, that said the essence of the Lotus Sutra is found in the title. And it was Nichiren who suggested chanting the title as a practice of the Lotus Sutra. Therefore, using your own logic, the daimoku was made up and completely useless BS.

No, you will not find a single line in the Lotus Sutra that teaches ichinen sanzen because it was a philosophy created by Zhiyi, based on the Lotus Sutra. A fact that has been repeated here and on my website. You'll find the aspects and philosophy underpinning it, not just from the Lotus Sutra, but from other texts too, again this has been given to you. And yet, you still want someone to prove that ichinen sanzen is taught by the Buddha in the Lotus Sutra. This has been a rather bizarre return to this group for me.
so i'm ok with the whole ichinen sanzen thing...it's not really that important as to what actually happens for me whilst chanting..

so like just forget about the whole Zhiyi is a nightmare thing...the guy helped bring ODaimoku to the fore...

so i owe the guy an apology..

Zhiyi , i apologize for going all no filters and gruff on you...

it's the way i learn...
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Still one should realize that ichinen sanzen does not come from the Lotus Sutra directly and is just something Zhiyi made up...which is cool...but we should know that and not think it comes from Lord Sakyamuni Buddha directly..

it's not really reality it's just like an idea...

something Nichiren used ..so we need to know why...He was indoctrinated into this from a young boy...

So ...how enlightened was Nichiren....He made a mistake in one of the Siddham characters...why did He never correct that...

Was His really tied and well...had to use subversive doctrine to be held in some semblance of knowing what He was talking about during the time He lived in...

is ichinen sanzen really that important ..like it's a made up thing to get you to see something...i dunno...

tkp calls it an expedient...can non Buddhas create expedients...i dunno..
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:24 pm Still one should realize that ichinen sanzen does not come from the Lotus Sutra directly and is just something Zhiyi made up...which is cool...but we should know that and not think it comes from Lord Sakyamuni Buddha directly..

it's not really reality it's just like an idea...

something Nichiren used ..so we need to know why...He was indoctrinated into this from a young boy...

So ...how enlightened was Nichiren....He made a mistake in one of the Siddham characters...why did He never correct that...

Was His really tied and well...had to use subversive doctrine to be held in some semblance of knowing what He was talking about during the time He lived in...

is ichinen sanzen really that important ..like it's a made up thing to get you to see something...i dunno...

tkp calls it an expedient...can non Buddhas create expedients...i dunno..
You seem to be well on your way to creating your own school of Buddhism. Perhaps it can be called davidism I dunno.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:54 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:24 pm Still one should realize that ichinen sanzen does not come from the Lotus Sutra directly and is just something Zhiyi made up...which is cool...but we should know that and not think it comes from Lord Sakyamuni Buddha directly..

it's not really reality it's just like an idea...

something Nichiren used ..so we need to know why...He was indoctrinated into this from a young boy...

So ...how enlightened was Nichiren....He made a mistake in one of the Siddham characters...why did He never correct that...

Was His really tied and well...had to use subversive doctrine to be held in some semblance of knowing what He was talking about during the time He lived in...

is ichinen sanzen really that important ..like it's a made up thing to get you to see something...i dunno...

tkp calls it an expedient...can non Buddhas create expedients...i dunno..
You seem to be well on your way to creating your own school of Buddhism. Perhaps it can be called davidism I dunno.
You are so wrong...

you had your big catch with 2012 ..now it's unto this.

The only thing i want is the truth..

For some people they don't need that ...

never understood why..

did you know up until a few days ago i never knew that Zhiyi made up the whole ichinen sanzen thing...

thats news to me...It shows that this whole ten worlds thing is just a theory and not actually reality...

of course thats no biggy eh...NAUGHT !



apparently it's ok though..



then of course whether Nichiren is a the primordial buddha or just a guy or a bodhisattva...

then of course ...why introduce a tantric vehicle aka the Gohonzon and leave no teaching towards practicing with it....



knock yourself out...

but i am not making a new religion...

just embracing the Entity of MyoHo RenGe Kyo...


Out of every sect or school on DW we are despised...thought of as joke...

and yet i Believe Nichiren was the only one that knew ...He saw something that almost got him killed...

how far could He go without being totally dismissed..

he had tendai to work with...

one of the most respected schools in japan...temples made to it....but it is just theory ..not actually buddhism...

long ago i asked why leave tendai and create a whole new religion...

so keep digging maybe you'll celebrate another minobu typo..
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Minobu
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

Also i think Dzogchen is a Buddhism unto itself...

it is at the core of all things Buddha....








total layman comment....
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by narhwal90 »

Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:01 pm
Out of every sect or school on DW we are despised...thought of as joke...
That is because of our conduct. Change our conduct, change the world.
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:15 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:01 pm
Out of every sect or school on DW we are despised...thought of as joke...
That is because of our conduct. Change our conduct, change the world.
lol....
it stems from Nichiren saying zen is the work of devils and shingdon leads to hell..pure landers are what ever...

i take what He says ...

and go one further..

there is more to it...

He saw something and could only go so far...

all these high priests and government sponsored temples to produce works of Buddhist art if you will...and i don't mean paintings...


the most important thing is Japan buddhism was never a Tibetan Buddhism nor did it produce what came out of tibetan monasteries...

He only had this corruption to live in and die in...

like the fake news of the Buddhist world...
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by narhwal90 »

All dead words. We are judged by our actions and attitudes.
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by Minobu »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:50 pm All dead words. We are judged our actions and attitudes.
so doctrine is nothing...oooooo K !
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by narhwal90 »

It is dead until you choose to put it into action. What are your actions?
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:50 pm All dead words. We are judged by our actions and attitudes.
Nichiren's attitude startled and frightened even some of his disciiples and believers.

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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by ronnymarsh »

Minobu-san, Nichiren's teaching, beyond any sectarian position, is basically the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Its practice, if done in the right way, leads one to have the realization of the lotus-sammadhi.

However, as the Lotus Sutra itself says, it is difficult to understand and transpose, in which none of the pratyekabuddhas or arahants is able to understand it.

The reason for this? It is as follows:

Pratyekkabuddhas attain enlightenment by analyzing the twelve links of dependent origination.
Arahants attain enlightenment by following the gradual path like disciples of a Buddha.

In either case, enlightenment arises as the result of a process in which the practitioner applies the mind in an analytical way. That is, the Arahant, for example, applies his mind to the analysis of dharmas and understands that they are devoid of atman. This understanding is only possible by analyzing the characteristics of dharmas.

When I first read the Lotus Sutra, my mind was looking for something along those lines. The Buddha explaining dharmas in a "rational" and "analytical" way to his disciples. But I went crazy (laughs) when I didn't find any of that.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha spends all his time pronouncing that he is going to preach the teaching, but he finishes the text and yet he seems not to preach. You get confused because you expect rational exposure and he doesn't.

The reason for this is that the Lotus Sutra, in all its figures, narratives, actions, etc., is the teaching.

The realization of the Lotus Sutra takes place through the performance of all those scenes, especially the air ceremony. That's why sutra practice is reading, copying, reciting, etc., because as you read the sutra you experience it. And as you experience it fully, when you and the Sutra merge, there is no distinction between the text and you. You and the Sutra are one.

Something similar to when reading any work of fiction that leaves you very steeped in the story, to the point where you feel part of it. The realization of the Lotus Sutra happens in the same way. When you get to the point of merging into the narrative you begin to get a glimpse of this realization, especially when it takes place during the air ceremony.

Nichiren ingeniously summarized the practice of the Lotus Sutra in the practice of Daimoku and gohonzon contemplation.

The Gohonzon mandala is, in material terms, the representation of the ceremony of Air, that is, it is a simplification of the Lotus Sutra.

When the person opens the butsudan, being aware of the meaning of the images present there, he sits in seiza, puts his hands on his chest and with the unity of speech, body and mind, recites the daimoku, he puts himself in the position of participating of the air ceremony.

At that moment, the person and the Law merge, and the realization of the lotus samadhi takes place, without the person having to read, copied, recited, etc., the text itself.

When you do this, you are part of the mandala, and as long as you remain in that form in mystical fusion with the Sacred and Sublime Dharma, everything in you is purified and you have realized Buddhahood in the present lifetime.

This is Nichiren's teaching. Everything he wrote is for the purpose of making people practice this Sutra in this way and obtain this realization. The rest is just sectarian intrigue of little or no value.

The most important thing in practice, if you have all your senses working perfectly, is to sit in front of the Gohonzon and recite daimoku.

Schools place traditional liturgies and rites, but none of these were taught by Nichiren. What he mainly taught was to recite Daimoku, if he had time or a favorable circumstance he would recite the two main chapters of the Sutra, if he had even more time he would recite the entire Sutra, however, in no case could he neglect the Daimoku, as this is the practice of fact.

If you are not in any order just do this: study the gohonzon and the air ceremony, understand this whole image, then sit in seiza with your hands clasped in front of your chest, fix your eyes on the myo character in the title and recite the daimoku with the unified mind to the point where you no longer perceive a distinction between you and the environment.
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Re: re inventing Nichiren

Post by illarraza »

ronnymarsh wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:45 am Minobu-san, Nichiren's teaching, beyond any sectarian position, is basically the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Its practice, if done in the right way, leads one to have the realization of the lotus-sammadhi.

However, as the Lotus Sutra itself says, it is difficult to understand and transpose, in which none of the pratyekabuddhas or arahants is able to understand it.

The reason for this? It is as follows:

Pratyekkabuddhas attain enlightenment by analyzing the twelve links of dependent origination.
Arahants attain enlightenment by following the gradual path like disciples of a Buddha.

In either case, enlightenment arises as the result of a process in which the practitioner applies the mind in an analytical way. That is, the Arahant, for example, applies his mind to the analysis of dharmas and understands that they are devoid of atman. This understanding is only possible by analyzing the characteristics of dharmas.

When I first read the Lotus Sutra, my mind was looking for something along those lines. The Buddha explaining dharmas in a "rational" and "analytical" way to his disciples. But I went crazy (laughs) when I didn't find any of that.

In the Lotus Sutra the Buddha spends all his time pronouncing that he is going to preach the teaching, but he finishes the text and yet he seems not to preach. You get confused because you expect rational exposure and he doesn't.

The reason for this is that the Lotus Sutra, in all its figures, narratives, actions, etc., is the teaching.

The realization of the Lotus Sutra takes place through the performance of all those scenes, especially the air ceremony. That's why sutra practice is reading, copying, reciting, etc., because as you read the sutra you experience it. And as you experience it fully, when you and the Sutra merge, there is no distinction between the text and you. You and the Sutra are one.

Something similar to when reading any work of fiction that leaves you very steeped in the story, to the point where you feel part of it. The realization of the Lotus Sutra happens in the same way. When you get to the point of merging into the narrative you begin to get a glimpse of this realization, especially when it takes place during the air ceremony.

Nichiren ingeniously summarized the practice of the Lotus Sutra in the practice of Daimoku and gohonzon contemplation.

The Gohonzon mandala is, in material terms, the representation of the ceremony of Air, that is, it is a simplification of the Lotus Sutra.

When the person opens the butsudan, being aware of the meaning of the images present there, he sits in seiza, puts his hands on his chest and with the unity of speech, body and mind, recites the daimoku, he puts himself in the position of participating of the air ceremony.

At that moment, the person and the Law merge, and the realization of the lotus samadhi takes place, without the person having to read, copied, recited, etc., the text itself.

When you do this, you are part of the mandala, and as long as you remain in that form in mystical fusion with the Sacred and Sublime Dharma, everything in you is purified and you have realized Buddhahood in the present lifetime.

This is Nichiren's teaching. Everything he wrote is for the purpose of making people practice this Sutra in this way and obtain this realization. The rest is just sectarian intrigue of little or no value.

The most important thing in practice, if you have all your senses working perfectly, is to sit in front of the Gohonzon and recite daimoku.

Schools place traditional liturgies and rites, but none of these were taught by Nichiren. What he mainly taught was to recite Daimoku, if he had time or a favorable circumstance he would recite the two main chapters of the Sutra, if he had even more time he would recite the entire Sutra, however, in no case could he neglect the Daimoku, as this is the practice of fact.

If you are not in any order just do this: study the gohonzon and the air ceremony, understand this whole image, then sit in seiza with your hands clasped in front of your chest, fix your eyes on the myo character in the title and recite the daimoku with the unified mind to the point where you no longer perceive a distinction between you and the environment.
In addition, we find in the Chu Hokkekyo, Nichiren's annotated copy of the Lotus Sutra

善戒経云。若無菩薩性者。雖復発心勤行精進雖復発心懃修精進。終不能得阿耨菩提

"One can't obtain Enlightenment without performing Gongyo" -- Nichiren

M
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