Buddhism's causes of illness

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illarraza
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Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by illarraza »

Some people mistakenly attribute everything to karma. There are exceptions. Here are some examples:

There are six causes of illness: (1) disharmony of the four elements: "Earth" (solid organs and bone); "wind" (pulmonary); "fire" (thermoregulation); and "water" (disease of the blood). (2) improper eating or drinking; (3) inappropriate practice of seated meditation (for example, neglecting sleep for long meditation sessions); (4) attack by demons (bacteria, virus, fungi); (5) the work of devils (depression, bipolar, schizophrenia); and (6) the effect of karma (the most serious diseases not cured with either western nor eastern medicine, for example many types of metastatic cancer, advanced COPD, incurable mental illness).
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Aemilius »

What is your source? There is something about illnesses in the Sutras and Vinaya:

"Sickness (àtanka, gelañña or roga) is the malfunctioning of the organism due to infection or injury. Numerous types of sickness are mentioned in the Buddhist scriptures including jaundice, fever, ulcers, cough, hay fever, diabetes (madhumehika, literally `honey urine') and leprosy. If every sickness were caused by past kamma, as some misinformed Buddhists maintain, then taking medicine would be pointless. The Buddha listed eight causes of sickness, only one of which is kamma. The other causes are an imbalance of bile, an imbalance of phlegm, an imbalance of wind, an imbalance of all three bodily humours combined, change in the weather, carelessness and accidents (S.IV,230). In another place he said that a poor diet can also lead to sickness (A.III,144) as can overeating (M.I,473). Seasonal sicknesses caused by the wind, heat or humidity were also recognized (Vin.I,199)."

from http://buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=373
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

All things have a cause .

It's like my thing about desire being the cause for Samsara.

;)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Minobu wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.

If there were a truly existent self,
all that would be true.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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tkp67
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by tkp67 »

Mark

Nichiren was clear about the distinction of physical illness and those caused by thought processes. Your assumption regarding mental illness is irresponsible on many levels but grossly negligent considering your medical licensing which you have made public.

The illnesses of human beings may be divided into two general categories, the first of which is illness of the body. Physical diseases comprise one hundred and one disorders of the earth element, one hundred and one imbalances of the water element, one hundred and one disturbances of the fire element, and one hundred and one disharmonies of the wind element,2 a total of four hundred and four maladies. These illnesses do not require a Buddha to cure them. Skilled physicians such as Water Holder and Water Carrier,3 Jīvaka, and Pien Ch’üeh4 prescribed medicines that never failed to heal physical sickness.

The second category is illness of the mind. These illnesses arise from the three poisons and are of eighty-four thousand kinds. They are beyond the healing powers of the two deities5 and the three ascetics [of Brahmanism] or the six non-Buddhist teachers. Medicines prescribed by Shen Nung and Huang Ti6 are even less effective.

Illnesses of the mind differ greatly in severity. The eighty-four thousand kinds of illnesses of the mind that arise from the three poisons and that afflict ordinary people of the six paths can be treated by the Buddha of Hinayana and his teachings in the Āgama sutras, or by the scholars and teachers of the Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, and Precepts schools. However, if these Hinayana practitioners, in following their teachings, should turn against the Mahayana, or, even though they may not oppose Mahayana Buddhism, if the Hinayana countries think themselves equal to the Mahayana countries, the people will be plagued by sickness. If one attempts to cure such illnesses with Hinayana Buddhism, they will only become worse. They can be treated only by the votaries of the Mahayana sutras. Even within the Mahayana, if adherents of the Flower Garland, Profound Secrets, Wisdom, Mahāvairochana, and other provisional Mahayana sutras confuse the inferior with the superior, and insist that the teachings of their schools are equal to p.1112or even surpass the Lotus Sutra, and if the ruler and others in high positions come to accept their assertion, then the three poisons and eighty-four thousand illnesses will all arise. Then, if those followers should try to cure these illnesses with the provisional Mahayana sutras on which they rely, the sicknesses will become all the more serious. Even if they try to use the Lotus Sutra, their efforts will fail because, although the sutra itself is supreme, the practitioners are persons who hold distorted views.
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/166

The Treatment of Illness
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 7:55 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.

If there were a truly existent self,
all that would be true.
Nihilism is such sweet sorrow.

this is where you go to the extreme

it's all about both existence and nonexistence at the same time..


once you make these statements , as you just did , what do you think this points to.

an extreme.
GrapeLover
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by GrapeLover »

Minobu wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.
So true… Thanissaro Bhikkhu’s comment on the above-quoted sutta is relevant:

“ Some people have interpreted this sutta as stating that there are many experiences that cannot be explained by the principle of kamma. A casual glance of the alternative factors here — drawn from the various causes for pain that were recognized in the medical treatises of his time — would seem to support this conclusion. However, if we compare this list with his definition of old kamma in SN 35.145, we see that many of the alternative causes are actually the result of past actions. Those that aren't are the result of new kamma. For instance, MN 101 counts asceticism — which produces pain in the immediate present — under the factor harsh treatment. The point here is that old and new kamma do not override other causal factors operating in the universe — such as those recognized by the physical sciences — but instead find their expression within those factors. A second point is that some of the influences of past kamma can be mitigated in the present — a disease caused by bile, for instance, can be cured by medicine that brings the bile back to normal.”

The “non-karmic” factors arose due to karma in the first place, and it’s the fruition of negative karma that operates through them to cause suffering.
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Aemilius »

GrapeLover wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:53 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.
So true… Thanissaro Bhikkhu’s comment on the above-quoted sutta is relevant:

“ Some people have interpreted this sutta as stating that there are many experiences that cannot be explained by the principle of kamma. A casual glance of the alternative factors here — drawn from the various causes for pain that were recognized in the medical treatises of his time — would seem to support this conclusion. However, if we compare this list with his definition of old kamma in SN 35.145, we see that many of the alternative causes are actually the result of past actions. Those that aren't are the result of new kamma. For instance, MN 101 counts asceticism — which produces pain in the immediate present — under the factor harsh treatment. The point here is that old and new kamma do not override other causal factors operating in the universe — such as those recognized by the physical sciences — but instead find their expression within those factors. A second point is that some of the influences of past kamma can be mitigated in the present — a disease caused by bile, for instance, can be cured by medicine that brings the bile back to normal.”

The “non-karmic” factors arose due to karma in the first place, and it’s the fruition of negative karma that operates through them to cause suffering.
His approach still tends toward fatalism, i.e. karma interpreted as an inevitable fate. Think for example about the case when a yaksha decided to give blow on the head of Shariputra. That yaksha didn't have to do that deed, he was quite free to desist from doing it.
It is not the case that karma necessitates all diseases, all blows from other people (or mythical beings) or the car accidents and other accidents. There are genuine accidents or chance events. And there other people, other people are not merely instruments that perform one's own karma.
There is short sutta where Buddha says that everybody knows that illnesses can be caused by the elements (i.e. not by one's karma) and that he too knows it.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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tkp67
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by tkp67 »

If one does not recall choosing this birth where/how was the opportunity to have a choice in the matter expressed? Was it through volition in THIS lifetime?

If not I see it as inherited but not of conscious choice. As I understand it the potential karma I am in control of all occurs within a given moment.
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

Aemilius wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:39 pm
GrapeLover wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:53 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm Well i realize illness is caused from a variety of reasons.
But what ever the reason i feel the cause is always based on karma.

for me it's all down to karma ...you get ill ...it's all due to cause .

what causes a sentient to suffer.

Karma..

what causes a sentient to be happy

Karma..

the illness might get cured but what of the next illness and the next illness.


If you expiated all your karma you could not suffer.

My take on it.
So true… Thanissaro Bhikkhu’s comment on the above-quoted sutta is relevant:

“ Some people have interpreted this sutta as stating that there are many experiences that cannot be explained by the principle of kamma. A casual glance of the alternative factors here — drawn from the various causes for pain that were recognized in the medical treatises of his time — would seem to support this conclusion. However, if we compare this list with his definition of old kamma in SN 35.145, we see that many of the alternative causes are actually the result of past actions. Those that aren't are the result of new kamma. For instance, MN 101 counts asceticism — which produces pain in the immediate present — under the factor harsh treatment. The point here is that old and new kamma do not override other causal factors operating in the universe — such as those recognized by the physical sciences — but instead find their expression within those factors. A second point is that some of the influences of past kamma can be mitigated in the present — a disease caused by bile, for instance, can be cured by medicine that brings the bile back to normal.”

The “non-karmic” factors arose due to karma in the first place, and it’s the fruition of negative karma that operates through them to cause suffering.
His approach still tends toward fatalism, i.e. karma interpreted as an inevitable fate. Think for example about the case when a yaksha decided to give blow on the head of Shariputra. That yaksha didn't have to do that deed, he was quite free to desist from doing it.
It is not the case that karma necessitates all diseases, all blows from other people (or mythical beings) or the car accidents and other accidents. There are genuine accidents or chance events. And there other people, other people are not merely instruments that perform one's own karma.
There is short sutta where Buddha says that everybody knows that illnesses can be caused by the elements (i.e. not by one's karma) and that he too knows it.
it's not fatalism, or destiny.

We have so much karma accumulated over an infinite amount of kalpas that if it were to ripen all at once we would be crushed.

all is cause and effect...thats not fatalism.
Remember we are living in the Buddha's Pure Land and He is our father and every sentients is under His robe .

There can be no effect without a cause..
Now here is an interesting thought.

I loved the various long life initiations. I wasn't taught this method, but told of one where some of our deaths are like boo boo's.

Somehow something happens and our lives our shortened and we die. Even though we had the merit to live longer.

So certain adepts are able to collect those "boo Boo" times over kaplas and somehow make it happen in this life ...Like money in a bank account long forgotten..

So it sounds far out there,, yeah i agree ,but this was taught by my Rinpoche. It's a secret .
also certain adepts can do stuff to end their life prematurely . And it is not considered suicide.

but all that being said...please show me where cause and effect is not there. Karma is cause and effect...it's not some sort of destiny or fatalism.

Like i said we would be crushed under it if it all ripened at once..
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

Aemilius wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:39 pm It is not the case that karma necessitates all diseases, all blows from other people (or mythical beings) or the car accidents and other accidents. There are genuine accidents or chance events.
Besides my previous post..

what is the cause for those accidents.. what is the cause for diseases in sentients living in samsara ..what is the cause for those chance events..

lol...
GrapeLover
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by GrapeLover »

Minobu wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:34 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:39 pm It is not the case that karma necessitates all diseases, all blows from other people (or mythical beings) or the car accidents and other accidents. There are genuine accidents or chance events.
Besides my previous post..

what is the cause for those accidents.. what is the cause for diseases in sentients living in samsara ..what is the cause for those chance events..

lol...
I agree with this point of view . . . I don't think it's in alignment with Buddhist teachings to hold that bad things happen to you randomly even if you have no negative karmic causes in your continuum. In Theravada, even the Buddha having his foot injured is attributed to ripening of his past karma——in Mahayana it is considered a display. If such things happened randomly then there'd be no need to attribute it to anything.

Similarly, in the "Questions of an Old Lady" sutra (https://read.84000.co/translation/toh171.html), it's established that the woman had been the Buddha's mother for 500 lifetimes. Ananda enquires as to why she is so poor, and the Buddha replies that it's because in one of her lives she was overly attached to him and tried to prevent him from going forth. If her situation could have been random, it would be a bit silly to enquire in the first place—"don't you know stuff can just happen?".

Everything isn't determined by karma in the sense that "on the 1st of January 2022 you will be hit by a car" isn't necessarily written in stone into your karma, but meeting with misfortune requires a negative karmic cause (which need not be very specific or defined, and may ripen in many ways according to the circumstances).

I think it's relatively motivating to know that your future circumstances depend on your present actions, and won't be interfered with by randomness.
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Minobu
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by Minobu »

GrapeLover wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:55 pm
Everything isn't determined by karma in the sense that "on the 1st of January 2022 you will be hit by a car" isn't necessarily written in stone into your karma, but meeting with misfortune requires a negative karmic cause (which need not be very specific or defined, and may ripen in many ways according to the circumstances).

I think it's relatively motivating to know that your future circumstances depend on your present actions, and won't be interfered with by randomness.
exactly...

it's not destiny .

People think like i hit this guy in the nose and so i'm going to get hit in the nose.


but quite right this might be the point Aemilius is making...
illarraza
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by illarraza »

Nichiren teaches in On Curing Karmic Disease (https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... /76#para-3):

"I SEE from your letter that you have been stricken with a painful affliction. On the one hand, knowing that you are in agony grieves me, but on the other, I am delighted. The Vimalakīrti Sutra states: “At that time the wealthy Vimalakīrti thought to himself, ‘I am ill, lying on my bed, [yet why does the World-Honored One, man of great compassion, not take pity on me]?’... At that time the Buddha said to Manjushrī, ‘Go visit Vimalakīrti, and inquire after his illness.’” The Nirvana Sutra says, “At that time the Thus Come One... assumed the appearance of one who is ill in body and lay on his right side like a sick man.” The Lotus Sutra states, “[The Thus Come One is well and happy], with few ills and few worries.”1 The eighth volume of Great Concentration and Insight states: “Vimalakīrti lay on his sickbed in Vaishālī, making his illness a pretext to promote the teachings... Through his death, the Thus Come One taught the eternity [of life], and through illness, the power [of Buddhism].” It also says: “There are six causes of illness: (1) disharmony of the four elements; (2) improper eating or drinking; (3) inappropriate practice of seated meditation; (4) attack by demons; (5) the work of devils; and (6) the effects of karma.”

and in The Treatment of Illness (https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... 166#para-3):

"Your letter says that the epidemics are raging all the more fiercely. The illnesses of human beings may be divided into two general categories, the first of which is illness of the body. Physical diseases comprise one hundred and one disorders of the earth element, one hundred and one imbalances of the water element, one hundred and one disturbances of the fire element, and one hundred and one disharmonies of the wind element,2 a total of four hundred and four maladies. These illnesses do not require a Buddha to cure them. Skilled physicians such as Water Holder and Water Carrier, Jīvaka, and Pien Ch’üeh prescribed medicines that never failed to heal physical sickness.

The second category is illness of the mind. These illnesses arise from the three poisons and are of eighty-four thousand kinds. They are beyond the healing powers of the two deities and the three ascetics [of Brahmanism] or the six non-Buddhist teachers. Medicines prescribed by Shen Nung and Huang Ti are even less effective.

Illnesses of the mind differ greatly in severity. The eighty-four thousand kinds of illnesses of the mind that arise from the three poisons and that afflict ordinary people of the six paths can be treated by the Buddha of Hinayana and his teachings in the Āgama sutras, or by the scholars and teachers of the Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, and Precepts schools. However, if these Hinayana practitioners, in following their teachings, should turn against the Mahayana, or, even though they may not oppose Mahayana Buddhism, if the Hinayana countries think themselves equal to the Mahayana countries, the people will be plagued by sickness. If one attempts to cure such illnesses with Hinayana Buddhism, they will only become worse. They can be treated only by the votaries of the Mahayana sutras. Even within the Mahayana, if adherents of the Flower Garland, Profound Secrets, Wisdom, Mahāvairochana, and other provisional Mahayana sutras confuse the inferior with the superior, and insist that the teachings of their schools are equal to or even surpass the Lotus Sutra, and if the ruler and others in high positions come to accept their assertion, then the three poisons and eighty-four thousand illnesses will all arise. Then, if those followers should try to cure these illnesses with the provisional Mahayana sutras on which they rely, the sicknesses will become all the more serious. Even if they try to use the Lotus Sutra, their efforts will fail because, although the sutra itself is supreme, the practitioners are persons who hold distorted views."

An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs. There are several ways chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo will cure this karmic disease. The patient will encounter the finest rehabilitation physicians and physical therapists and will obtain state of the art prosthesis. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn without limbs. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.

The most serious illnesses of the mind are catatonic schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, recurrent, severe, and Bipolar I disorder. As with the thalidomide child, as long as the person chants Namu myoho renge kyo, he or she will encounter the best psychiatrist and most efficacious medicines. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn with a mental illenss. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.

The person who slanders the Lotus Sutra, the Eternal Buddha or the Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra and who develops a malignancy, a severe automimmune disease, a stroke or some other difficult to cure maladie, should he or she repent of their slander and come to embrace the Mystic Law, the Eternal Buddha and the Supreme Votary, they will follow in the footsteps of King Ajatashatru.
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Karma is one of the most misunderstood concepts.
Not only is it misunderstood, but people generally do not know the history of the concept, and how it changed within the Indian religious context, (important for really understanding what karma describes, and how karma functions) but also there is a lot of new-age stuff just piled on top of it. Also a lot of superstitious crap that goes around.

There is a very good teaching called “What’s Karma Got To Do With It?” Available as a podcast produced by Urban Dharma in North Carolina.
EMPTIFUL.
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tkp67
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

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An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs. There are several ways chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo will cure this karmic disease. The patient will encounter the finest rehabilitation physicians and physical therapists and will obtain state of the art prosthesis. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn without limbs. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.

The most serious illnesses of the mind are catatonic schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, recurrent, severe, and Bipolar I disorder. As with the thalidomide child, as long as the person chants Namu myoho renge kyo, he or she will encounter the best psychiatrist and most efficacious medicines. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn with a mental illenss. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.
By definition if someone is catatonic they cannot chant. Not only is it a failed thought experiment (which shows the underlying efforts in your consideration of such) but it would prove both Shakyamuni and Nichiren to be unwise and stingy among many other slanders.

This type of over reaching from as a licensed medical professional is negligent.
illarraza
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:54 pm
An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs. There are several ways chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo will cure this karmic disease. The patient will encounter the finest rehabilitation physicians and physical therapists and will obtain state of the art prosthesis. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn without limbs. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.

The most serious illnesses of the mind are catatonic schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, recurrent, severe, and Bipolar I disorder. As with the thalidomide child, as long as the person chants Namu myoho renge kyo, he or she will encounter the best psychiatrist and most efficacious medicines. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn with a mental illenss. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.
By definition if someone is catatonic they cannot chant. Not only is it a failed thought experiment (which shows the underlying efforts in your consideration of such) but it would prove both Shakyamuni and Nichiren to be unwise and stingy among many other slanders.

This type of over reaching from as a licensed medical professional is negligent.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... a_symptoms

https://www.healthline.com/health/catat ... izophrenia

"Although schizophrenia may be a lifelong condition in some cases, catatonic episodes associated with the condition can be effectively treated by an experienced psychiatric team."

Mark
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 pm
tkp67 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:54 pm
An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs. There are several ways chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo will cure this karmic disease. The patient will encounter the finest rehabilitation physicians and physical therapists and will obtain state of the art prosthesis. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn without limbs. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.

The most serious illnesses of the mind are catatonic schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, recurrent, severe, and Bipolar I disorder. As with the thalidomide child, as long as the person chants Namu myoho renge kyo, he or she will encounter the best psychiatrist and most efficacious medicines. More importantly, never again, in lifetime after lifetime, will this person be reborn with a mental illenss. With absolute faith in the Mystic Law, this person will realize peace and security in this very life, will obtain Pure and Perfect Enlightenment and will actualize Joy, Purity, True Self and Eternity in this lifetime and every lifetime far into the most distant future.
By definition if someone is catatonic they cannot chant. Not only is it a failed thought experiment (which shows the underlying efforts in your consideration of such) but it would prove both Shakyamuni and Nichiren to be unwise and stingy among many other slanders.

This type of over reaching from as a licensed medical professional is negligent.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... a_symptoms

https://www.healthline.com/health/catat ... izophrenia

"Although schizophrenia may be a lifelong condition in some cases, catatonic episodes associated with the condition can be effectively treated by an experienced psychiatric team."

Mark
Ok Mark. That doesn't mean someone is capable of chanting with faith. Entering the practice without regression requires more than a mantra. Nichiren taught as much as did Shakyamuni. There are far greater considerations and implications. Doing less than clinical due diligence could easily be seen as malfeasance against the mentally ill.

Peaceful practices from the lotus sutra comes to mind. Forcing the mentally ill to look into a mirror they may not be prepared to see is not Nichiren buddhism as I understand it. It is not any buddhism as I understand it.

Being a votary of the lotus sutra is voluntary and thus requires volition drive faith. Some of those illness you described do not leave the person suffering them with the capacity to voluntary practice the LS. This does not leave them bereft liberation or even LS practices but it does not mean their mind is manifesting the realms by choice or means of karma.
reiun
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Re: Buddhism's causes of illness

Post by reiun »

illarraza wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:31 pm An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs.
The limbs of a child born of a mother who took thalidomide during pregnancy were malformed. They did not "wither", i.e., shrivel or shrink.

If anyone had "karma" in this example, it was probably the mom.
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