Buddhism's causes of illness

[Minobu]

An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs.

The limbs of a child born of a mother who took thalidomide during pregnancy were malformed. They did not "wither", i.e., shrivel or shrink.

If anyone had "karma" in this example, it was probably the mom.

you know , you never know who might be reading this stuff.

I always said , and maybe this should have been in the shakkabukku thread ...

i always said it is easy to go up to some rich famous beautiful actress and say "wow do you have great Karma"

but to go up to some wretch in a wheelchair cause of some accident that where they lost their legs and say"It's all your fault , it's you karma"

really bad stuff ..this thread is degenerating into a nightmare.

i already said one bad thing to a guy today..

[narhwal90]

Removed a post containing personal comments and excessive quotation.

[illarraza]

An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs.

The limbs of a child born of a mother who took thalidomide during pregnancy were malformed. They did not "wither", i.e., shrivel or shrink.

If anyone had "karma" in this example, it was probably the mom.

National Cancer Institue Metathesaurus..."withered limb", https://ncimeta.nci.nih.gov/ncimbrowser ... pe=synonym

To explain to a lay person, "withered limb" or "withered appendage" is perfectly acceptable. I am a physician. Of course I could have written malformed appendages but this would have described little to a lay audience. Would you have preferred "flipper appendages"?

Mark

[illarraza]

By definition if someone is catatonic they cannot chant. Not only is it a failed thought experiment (which shows the underlying efforts in your consideration of such) but it would prove both Shakyamuni and Nichiren to be unwise and stingy among many other slanders.

This type of over reaching from as a licensed medical professional is negligent.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... a_symptoms

https://www.healthline.com/health/catat ... izophrenia

"Although schizophrenia may be a lifelong condition in some cases, catatonic episodes associated with the condition can be effectively treated by an experienced psychiatric team."

Mark

Ok Mark. That doesn't mean someone is capable of chanting with faith. Entering the practice without regression requires more than a mantra. Nichiren taught as much as did Shakyamuni. There are far greater considerations and implications. Doing less than clinical due diligence could easily be seen as malfeasance against the mentally ill.

Peaceful practices from the lotus sutra comes to mind. Forcing the mentally ill to look into a mirror they may not be prepared to see is not Nichiren buddhism as I understand it. It is not any buddhism as I understand it.

Being a votary of the lotus sutra is voluntary and thus requires volition drive faith. Some of those illness you described do not leave the person suffering them with the capacity to voluntary practice the LS. This does not leave them bereft liberation or even LS practices but it does not mean their mind is manifesting the realms by choice or means of karma.

All that is required to attain Buddhahood now or in the future, is one moment of joy in the Lifespan of the Tathagata (another explanation of the Law of Namu myoho renge kyo). If, as Nagarjuna and Nichiren taught, even a dung beetle exposed to the Lotus Sutra can attain the way, then of course, a human being even having catatonic schizophrenia:

"The scripture known as the Nirvana Sutra lists the beings that have been able to attain the way through the Lotus Sutra, and the list includes such filthy creatures as dung beetles, vipers, and scorpions. To express the wonderful power of the Lotus Sutra, Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna says that it enables even such creatures as dung beetles to attain Buddhahood*." -The writing, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, is an authenticated (1280) writing of Nichiren with his stamp and signature written to Nichigenyo and her husband, Shijo Kingo.

*This statement is found in The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom.

Mark

[illarraza]

Someone wrote: "... If anyone had "karma" in this example, it was probably the mom."

I think, it was mom's and child's collective karma

Mark

[PadmaVonSamba]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

[Malcolm]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

Some illnesses are; some are not.

[Hazel]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

Some illnesses are; some are not.

Is that true of a certain set of illnesses or rather is it true of certain instances of any illness?

[Minobu]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

it's simple.

you get ill you get better. you get ill again you get better again..

i don't think you understand Karma at all..nor emptiness , nor the concept of self.

You need to chant The Daimoku.

try the gakki for a few years and open your mind to Buddhist theory and practice.

[Minobu]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

Some illnesses are; some are not.

so what is the cause malcolm, of an illness not due to Karma.

what is the cause of suffering malcolm.

when is suffering or happiness not down to a cause malcolm.

[Minobu]

This is the section of DW where Buddha teaches and shows us posts where people show themselves .

i went weird once and did not know why i was saying some weird thing about add ons if you recall...It was awhile before i actually googled it and wondered why in one post i posted like a knew and then all of a sudden i went blank...unfortunately the post where i mentioned i don't understand why i went blank glitched out after a week or so and the sentence disappeared...

but i learned a lot about the other posters..it was an eye opener..

So i put it down to the Nichiren section doing it's magik..

cause and effect...Confiscious and Lao Tzu were wise sages and yet they did not understand cause and effect.

when Buddhism entered china those schools adopted Buddhist thought..

[Malcolm]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

Some illnesses are; some are not.

Is that true of a certain set of illnesses or rather is it true of certain instances of any illness?

Both a certain set and certain instances.

[Malcolm]

If illness is the result of karma, then all medicine blocks karma.

Some illnesses are; some are not.

so what is the cause malcolm, of an illness not due to Karma.

Three humors, vāta, pitta, and kapha. The cause of those are desire, hatred, and ignorance.

You can read about this in the Suvarnaprabhasa Sūtra, and other places. The latter sūtra has a chapter, chapter 16, devoted to discussing illnesses and their causes.

https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/tea ... 07lttr.pdf

[Minobu]

Some illnesses are; some are not.

so what is the cause malcolm, of an illness not due to Karma.

Three humors, vāta, pitta, and kapha. The cause of those are desire, hatred, and ignorance.

You can read about this in the Suvarnaprabhasa Sūtra, and other places. The latter sūtra has a chapter, chapter 16, devoted to discussing illnesses and their causes.

https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/tea ... 07lttr.pdf

i don't know if is this is willful of you being obtuse .

some diseases are caused by the bile being out of sync,, others the wind is out of sync..some illness are due to all sorts of different ailments of the body and mind.

but all Malcolm , all have their origins in Karmic cause and effect.

I'm amazed that you cannot fathom the most simple of Buddhist teachings, but then again maybe i dunno.. have to double down due to a past written thing of yours...but it is the weirdest thing you ever doubled down on.

you really need to to try some Nichiren practice...you have no idea what you are saying here.

to deny cause and effect....it's like something out of i dunno some inane new age text.

all effects are due to karma in sentients.

[Shotenzenjin]

I've really faught internal battles over this question regarding going deaf and blind and what I lost. I understand it's karma, but through it I've been brought to the dharma which must also be karma. And I've come to terms with it. After some very long nights.

[reiun]

An example of a physical illness with a karmic cause is a thalidomide child with withered limbs.

The limbs of a child born of a mother who took thalidomide during pregnancy were malformed. They did not "wither", i.e., shrivel or shrink.

If anyone had "karma" in this example, it was probably the mom.

National Cancer Institue Metathesaurus..."withered limb", https://ncimeta.nci.nih.gov/ncimbrowser ... pe=synonym

To explain to a lay person, "withered limb" or "withered appendage" is perfectly acceptable. I am a physician. Of course I could have written malformed appendages but this would have described little to a lay audience. Would you have preferred "flipper appendages"?

Mark

This is assuming that a lay audience is too stupid to understand the word "malformed ". I wouldn't deem this arrogant, but I believe it is an underestimation of the intelligence of ordinary people on your part. Better to be accurate.
In this example, "withered" is not acceptable, because it is not accurate. Thus, you clearly misdiagnose/mislead/misunderstand.

[PadmaVonSamba]

to deny cause and effect....it's like something out of i dunno some inane new age text.

all effects are due to karma in sentients.

Everything occurs due to cause and effect. Nobody is denying that.
But it doesn’t mean that whatever happens to a person is the product of (caused by) their individual, previous intentions.

There is a popular new age idea that karma is some kind of systems of rewards and punishments dealt out by the universe, and that furthermore, everything one experiences is an expression of that. I don’t think buddhist teachings support this view.

[Malcolm]

but all Malcolm , all [Illnesses] have their origins in Karmic cause and effect.

No, they don't. But there is no point in arguing with you about it. Unlike you, I studied Tibetan Medicine for many years, and have a degree in it. Tibetan Medicine is based on Buddhist sūtras and Buddhist medical texts like the Aṣṭangahridayasamhita. I just don't have it in me to argue with laymen about the causes of Illness according to the Buddha.

[Minobu]

but all Malcolm , all [Illnesses] have their origins in Karmic cause and effect.

No, they don't. But there is no point in arguing with you about it. Unlike you, I studied Tibetan Medicine for many years, and have a degree in it. Tibetan Medicine is based on Buddhist sūtras and Buddhist medical texts like the Aṣṭangahridayasamhita. I just don't have it in me to argue with laymen about the causes of Illness according to the Buddha.

I would never deny the value in medicines . Or the diagnosis of a physician.
I am not discussing treatments or ailments , the work of physicians.

What I am saying is that you have lost sight of the cause and the conditions that occur to sentients is all due to Karma.

With merit one finds a good doctor .

Without merit the illness goes undiagnosed , or worst the work of inadequate physicians or even quackery.., and death or a long lengthy suffering occurs.


Always when i did any sort of Daimonku for illness, or Medicine Buddha i would never refuse a doctor or just rely on practice and be foolish..
In fact my own wife has many ailments..she is into The Bible and Jesus.

I constantly pray for her to get the best doctors..and she does...really and truly a marvel...Her sister always ends up wanting the specialists we find...so many times...

anyway , concerning Buddhism ,you remind of this passage in the Gosho
The Opening of the Eyes

On “Great Concentration and Insight” comments on this passage as follows: “Though they are monks, they destroy the teachings of Buddhism. Some break the precepts and return to lay life, as Wei Yüan-sung did. Then, as laymen, they work to destroy the teachings of Buddhism. Men of this kind steal and usurp the correct teachings of Buddhism and use them to supplement and bolster the erroneous writings. The passage on ‘twisting what is lofty . . .’ means that, adopting the outlook of the Taoists, they try to place Buddhism and Taoism on the same level, to make equals of the correct and the erroneous, though reason tells us that this could never be. Having once been followers of Buddhist teachings, they steal what is correct and use it to bolster what is incorrect. They twist the lofty eighty thousand teachings of the twelve divisions of the Buddhist canon and force them into the mean context of Lao Tzu’s two chapters and five thousand words, using them to interpret the base and mistaken teachings of that text. This is what is meant by ‘destroying what is exalted and dragging it down among the base.’” These comments should be carefully noted, for they explain the meaning of the foregoing description of events.

you can read it in it's entirety here
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... Part%20One

[PadmaVonSamba]

all [Illnesses] have their origins in Karmic cause and effect.
........
I am not discussing treatments or ailments, the work of physicians.
.........
With merit one finds a good doctor.

So, if you have enough negative karma to make you sick, you’ll get sick, but if you have enough positive karma to get a good doctor, you’ll get a doctor who can help you fight the effects of your negative karma?

Am I understanding this correctly?