Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Malcolm
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 am No I said the buddha said as much.
The Buddha never said in any sutra or tantra anywhere that he makes sentient beings equal.
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Queequeg
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Queequeg »

Minobu wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:16 am
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:46 am
Minobu wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:39 pm
So he said Lord Sakyamuni's students were harvested ? ...i get that..i believe that it makes sense...then in mappo though the whole Buddha of kuon ganjo plants the seed for first time is off ...no?

like Nichiren said we only get Tathagatagarbha after hearing Odaimoku?

thats weird.

it's important cause if He did say that then He also implies like people don't carry the seed to Buddhahood ..
Yeah. Its a unique interpretation.
so hopefully third time is a charm..

you are definitely saying Nichiren Taught that during Mappo no one has the Buddha nature till they hear the ODaimoku..

well thats amazing if it is true.

i think it is an interpretation thing cause it makes zero sense.
You should read it. Object of Contemplation for Observing the Mind.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Minobu
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Minobu »

Queequeg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 3:27 am
Minobu wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:16 am
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:46 am

Yeah. Its a unique interpretation.
so hopefully third time is a charm..

you are definitely saying Nichiren Taught that during Mappo no one has the Buddha nature till they hear the ODaimoku..

well thats amazing if it is true.

i think it is an interpretation thing cause it makes zero sense.
You should read it. Object of Contemplation for Observing the Mind.
i will
but i doubt it will answer my question i so asked you directly.

i just cannot believe Nichiren would teach that the Buddha nature is absent till you hear the ODaimoku.

I believe that when one hears the ODaimoku he is set upon the path..

anyway what do i know of these things...thats why i ask...

so i shall retire to the gosho "Object of Contemplation for Observing the Mind"

looks rather lengthy and i do not read these without concentration difficulties ...so see you back here on the fourth of july and i shall celebrate liberation along with my american brothers and sisters.


did i ever tell you i think the forefathers of America were the workings of human evolution...

it's like some DNA memory from past big bangs came into play...

You know star stuff..
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tkp67
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by tkp67 »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:01 am
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 am No I said the buddha said as much.
The Buddha never said in any sutra or tantra anywhere that he makes sentient beings equal.
For your review
Shariputra, you should know
that at the start I took a vow,
hoping to make all persons
equal to me, without any distinction between us,
and what I long ago hoped for
has now been fulfilled.
I have converted all living beings
and caused them all to enter the buddha way.
If when I encounter living beings
I were in all cases to teach them the buddha way,
those without wisdom would become confused
and in their bewilderment would fail to accept my teachings.
Malcolm
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:54 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:01 am
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 am No I said the buddha said as much.
The Buddha never said in any sutra or tantra anywhere that he makes sentient beings equal.
For your review
Shariputra, you should know
that at the start I took a vow,
hoping to make all persons
equal to me, without any distinction between us,
and what I long ago hoped for
has now been fulfilled.
I have converted all living beings
and caused them all to enter the buddha way.
If when I encounter living beings
I were in all cases to teach them the buddha way,
those without wisdom would become confused
and in their bewilderment would fail to accept my teachings.
You still miss the point. All sentient beings have the same potential. That is not given to them by a Buddha. It’s connate, not fabricated. When the Buddha in the LS predicted all beings to full buddhahood, all beings were already in possession of the potential to becomes Buddhas. That’s what ekayana means. There is no special sauce.
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Queequeg
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Queequeg »

tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:54 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:01 am
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:50 am No I said the buddha said as much.
The Buddha never said in any sutra or tantra anywhere that he makes sentient beings equal.
For your review
Shariputra, you should know
that at the start I took a vow,
hoping to make all persons
equal to me, without any distinction between us,
and what I long ago hoped for
has now been fulfilled.
I have converted all living beings
and caused them all to enter the buddha way.
If when I encounter living beings
I were in all cases to teach them the buddha way,
those without wisdom would become confused
and in their bewilderment would fail to accept my teachings.
This appears to conflict with Nichiren's idea that the people of Mappo receive the seed for the first time by hearing the Daimoku. In this passage, Shakyamuni is stating that he has already formed a relationship with all beings since the remote past.

Again, though, its not that sentient beings are equal to the Buddha because of the qualities that make them sentient beings - delusion, attachment, aversion - its because they have buddhanature. But because sentient beings are deluded, they do not see their buddhanature, and so continue to course in samsara. The Buddha is constantly leading beings to awakening, leading beings to awaken and attain buddhahood. The Buddha also states in the Lotus that the True Aspect can only be shared between Buddhas and tells Shariputra to stop asking about it.

I am sorry, but your interpretation is completely off and not even found in Nichiren's teachings. These are the kinds of things I am referring to when I say you just make it up.
Last edited by Queequeg on Tue May 25, 2021 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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tkp67
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by tkp67 »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:59 pm
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:54 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:01 am

The Buddha never said in any sutra or tantra anywhere that he makes sentient beings equal.
For your review
Shariputra, you should know
that at the start I took a vow,
hoping to make all persons
equal to me, without any distinction between us,
and what I long ago hoped for
has now been fulfilled.
I have converted all living beings
and caused them all to enter the buddha way.
If when I encounter living beings
I were in all cases to teach them the buddha way,
those without wisdom would become confused
and in their bewilderment would fail to accept my teachings.
You still miss the point. All sentient beings have the same potential. That is not given to them by a Buddha. It’s connate, not fabricated. When the Buddha in the LS predicted all beings to full buddhahood, all beings were already in possession of the potential to becomes Buddhas. That’s what ekayana means. There is no special sauce.
Namdrol. I understand what you are saying succinctly. It does not read differently in my mind than yours.

HOWEVER

Nichiren teaches one conforms to the purview of Shakyamuni through the proxy of his practice. Every aspect of Shakyamuni's enlightenment is endowed to the practitioner.

There is no "attainment" it is just an entry and one advances according to one's own capacity, conditions and causes. The expounding in Nichiren's practice is chanting daimoku.

Personally when I come across misunderstanding I chant daimoku to shakabuku my own ignorance. I don't think it is carte blanche for "being Shakyamnui"

As I interpret it, it is the compass point on a map for one's own development and those of like practices within the same auspices.

The militant facet appears to be a poorly translated cultural appropriation. Seems appropriate for a country like the USA that it would be embraced as such. I don't think it has to be seen as outwardly aggressive.

Nichiren teaches the adaptation of "Shakyamuni's" perspective as one's own. I understand the quandary.

The teacher of the law chapter of the LS reports the following.
If a person expounds this sutra,
p.207he should enter the thus come one’s room,
put on the thus come one’s robe,
sit in the thus come one’s seat,
confront the assembly without fear
and broadly expound it for them, making distinctions.
Great pity and compassion are the room,
gentleness and patience are the robe,
the emptiness of all phenomena is the seat,
and from that position he should expound the Law for them.
If when a person expounds this sutra
there is someone who speaks ill of and reviles him
or attacks him with swords and staves, tiles and stones,
he should think of the Buddha and for that reason be patient.
In a thousand, ten thousand, a million lands
I will manifest my pure and durable body
and for immeasurable millions of kalpas
will expound the Law for living beings.
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tkp67
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by tkp67 »

It is important to remember Shakyammuni dedicated his ordinary existence to revealing that potential.

If it was of primary importance he would not have behaved in a like manner.

Perhaps it is more than a potential but humans are so corrupt in nature that it can't be understood directly.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by narhwal90 »

Vajrayana influences in Nichiren split off as hopefully productive conversation. Please ask a moderator to unlock this thread if there is something more to add.
Malcolm
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:10 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:59 pm
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:54 pm

For your review

You still miss the point. All sentient beings have the same potential. That is not given to them by a Buddha. It’s connate, not fabricated. When the Buddha in the LS predicted all beings to full buddhahood, all beings were already in possession of the potential to becomes Buddhas. That’s what ekayana means. There is no special sauce.
I understand what you are saying succinctly. It does not read differently in my mind than yours.
The translation for that passage you are using as a proof text is incorrect. The Watson translation is deprecated, and full of inaccuracies. Therefore, your idea about this passage and its reading are simply incorrect.

It correctly reads:

"“Just as I saw and just as I thought,
And just as I resolved in the past,
My aspirations have been fulfilled
And I teach enlightenment and buddhahood."

As long as you guys keep relying on substandard scholarship, you will be subject to serious deviations in your understanding of the Dharma.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by narhwal90 »

BDK's edition generally agrees with Watson. 84000's edition reads differently;

2. 87
This is what I think of, Sariputra:
How may all beings become
Possessed of a body with the thirty-two signs
And be self-luminous, self-arising knowers of the world?\u2019 {60}

2. 88
Just as I saw and just as I thought,
And just as I resolved in the past,
My aspirations have been fulfilled
And I teach enlightenment and buddhahood. 131 {61}

2. 89
If, Sarisuta, I were to say to beings,
Develop the desire for buddhahood,\u2019
All who are ignorant would be bewildered 132
And they would not follow my good advice. {62}
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Minobu »

Queequeg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:54 pm
Minobu wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 4:20 am i just cannot believe Nichiren would teach that the Buddha nature is absent till you hear the ODaimoku.
Yes. It doesn't make sense. That's why it seems to refer only to one aspect of the Buddhanature - the ability to perceive it, which is initiated when you hear the teaching for the first time. In that same text Nichiren explains the Gohonzon. Its the moment of transmission of the Daimoku. When one sits before the mandala and invokes the Daimoku, one is at the ceremony in the air receiving the teaching.

It also doesn't make sense because he and his followers are supposed to be Bodhisattvas of the Earth who already received the teaching in the remote past.

Arguably there is some transcendence of time.

As Malcolm suggested a while ago, and as Vasubandhu commented, the ceremony in the air may be Shakyamuni in Samboghakaya form teaching in Akanistha.
ok so i started to read the gosho Object of Contemplation for Observing the Mind.

so i got to the part where He talks of Buddha nature being in plants and even a pebble.

so For me that means He sees it as all ready there in everything..

so this concept of Him actually teaching in mappo it is different and you recieve it only when you hear the ODaimoku seems an interpretive thing...

As for the Bodhisattvas of the Earth..

I was walking along english Bay Beach in Vancouver when a classmate of mine from montreal approached me...when he got in front of me, i was straight and it was afternoon, i just fell flat on my back...literally FLOORED .. i got up he looked perplexed and the conversation immediately went to him telling me about ?Nam Myoho renGe Kyo...I never heard of it before and i explained that i Do ™ ( always turns T M into that )and you are not supposed to say mantras out loud...anyway he left and soon after that experience i became obsessed with moving myself and parents to toronto...and that where i got shakkabukkued...


So i dunno...that was odd eh..


i think The BOA get dumbed down into almost morons at times...speaking for myself..also speaking for myself , take on karma to purify the world...

from birth i have had a nightmare existence...
My genius brother who won scholarships to a private exclusive high school and Mcgill...used to smother me in the crib...when i learned to talk it stopped when he threatened me with thw smothers...he put a firecracker on my belly when i was like 3 or for in front of his friends for lols...i did not cry i ran home...it was a rough area..he melted rubber plastic toy on my hand..did all sorts....my entire life has had people screwing me over like no tomorrow...well i did sort of bug up me brother when i was a teen...but anyway...siblings eh

i have never retaliated nor had any hatred to them..in fact when i started Buddhism i learnt to thank them for this was me expiating some form of Karma...

point is i don't think cause we are all morons doesn't mean we are not BOA...i think my life is actually quite special and different from ordinary citizens of the world...lots of mystical stuff happens all the time for me...

anyway..i don;t believe Nichiren actually taught that we get the actual Buddha nature only when we first hear the words...

but who knows ..i will finish reading the Object of Contemplation for Observing the Mind.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

narhwal90 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:57 pm 84000's edition reads differently;
It reads correctly.

Illarazza's idea that the Buddha specially blessed Kumarajiva's mind to produce a translation that is the real intent of the sūtra is like the idea of fundamentalist Christians that the translation group that produced the King James Bible was anointed by God to their task. In other words, complete hooey.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Queequeg »

tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:10 pm The militant facet appears to be a poorly translated cultural appropriation. Seems appropriate for a country like the USA that it would be embraced as such. I don't think it has to be seen as outwardly aggressive.
Oh, no. Nichiren sounds even harsher in Japanese.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

narhwal90 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:57 pm BDK's edition generally agrees with Watson. 84000's edition reads differently;
Inaccurate is inaccurate.

In order to have an accurate translation, one would need to have Kumarajiva's original (since his recension has been subject to anonymous editing), The Tibetan, which was made from an 8th century Sanskrit version, and a Nepalese copy, plus any readings found in the Sutrasammucaya, etc. Otherwise, what one ends up with is misunderstanding piled on mistranslations piled on misreadings.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Minobu »

The point to my previous post is thus.

It is how i lived my life.

Everyone tries to screw me over...seriously...only my present wife and one of her sons and two grandsons have not.
But How i react to them is one of mystery to me..

...I don't seek revenge, i don't hate i only wish good upon them .

so i believe yes i live as a bodhisattva would..watched as miracles are constantly produced in my life...

both legs have been broken , my face has been broken , a cop smashed my nose to the side of my face for no reason...

and still..i'm happy and accept it all..

Also Q i don't think you are right in your assessment of Nichiren shonin and have missed the entire point..

so carry on with M and do your thing.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by illarraza »

The original manuscript of the Kanjin Honzon Sho [True Object of Worship] is designated a National Treasure by the Japanese government and is kept in the treasure storehouse of the Hokekyoju Temple in Ichikawa City, Japan. The document is considered crucial to the understanding of Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren refers to the treatise as being of the "utmost importance".

The Kanjin Honzon Sho from the Major Works of the SGI is translated from the Gosho Zenshu which is the modern Japanese translation of the original Chinese and medieval Japanese Gosho translated by Nichiren Shoshu priests. One should note that the Nichiren Shoshu and the SGI are the only Nichiren sects that advocate Nichiren as True Buddha and the only sects that rely on Gosho Zenshu. The Major Works translation reads:

"The “Teacher of the Law” chapter of the Lotus Sutra states, “Since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?” The “Treasure Tower” chapter states, “They [the Buddhas] make certain that the Law will long endure. . . . [The Thus Come One Many Treasures, I myself ], and these emanation Buddhas who have gathered here, surely know this is our aim.” Look at what the “Encouraging Devotion” and “Peaceful Practices” chapters state about the future. The theoretical teaching was preached for the people after Shakyamuni Buddha’s passing.

As regards the essential teaching, it was addressed exclusively to the people early in the Latter Day of the Law. On the surface, the Buddha seems to have preached this teaching for the enlightenment of the people of his day; he planted the seeds of Buddhahood in their lives in the remote past [numberless major world system dust particle kalpas ago] and nurtured the seeds through his preaching as the sixteenth son of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence [major world system dust particle kalpas ago] and through the first four flavors of teachings and the theoretical teaching in this life. Then with the essential teaching he brought his followers to the stage of near-perfect enlightenment and finally to that of perfect enlightenment.

In actuality, however, the essential teaching bears no resemblance whatsoever to the theoretical teaching. The preparation, revelation, and transmission of the essential teaching are intended entirely for the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law. The essential teaching of Shakyamuni’s lifetime and that revealed at the beginning of the Latter Day are both pure and perfect [in that both lead directly to Buddhahood]. Shakyamuni’s, however, is the Buddhism of the harvest, and this is the Buddhism of sowing. The core of his teaching is one chapter and two halves, and the core of mine is the five characters of the daimoku alone." Kanjin Honzon Sho (SGI Major Works ) pp 169-170

The Kanjin Honzon from the NOPPA translation of the Nichiren Shu is translated directly from the Showa Tehon which is a copy of the original collection of Gosho written in Chinese and medieval Japanese. The NOPPA translation reads.

"It is stated in the tenth chapter of the Lotus Sutra, 'The Teacher of the Dharma': 'This sutra has aroused much hatred and jealousy even in the lifetime of the Buddha. How much more can this be expected after His death!' And in the eleventh chapter, 'Appearance of the Stupa of Treasures': 'Taho Buddha and the Buddhas in manifestation (funjin Buddhas) from all the worlds in the universe gathered together to make this dharma live forever....Buddhas in manifestation should remember My (the Buddha's) intention to keep on spreading the dharma forever.'You may find similar statements in the thirteen chapter, 'Encouragement for Upholding this Sutra', and fourteenth chapter, 'Peaceful Practices'. They show that the theoretical section of the Lotus Sutra is directed to those in the beginning of the Latter Age.

The essential section of the Lotus Sutra is preached solely for those living in the beginning of the Latter Age. At first glance it appears that the seed of Buddhahood was planted in them by the Eternal Buddha in the eternal past or 500 dust particle kalpa ago. The seed germinated and grew within them with the help of all the sutras from the Lotus Sutra preached by the sixteenth prince of Daitsuchisho Buddha in 3,000 dust particle kalpa in the past to all those preached by Sakyamuni in his life before the Lotus Sutra and the theoretical section of the Lotus Sutra. Finally the essential section of the Lotus Sutra enabled them to attain Buddhahood.

On closer examination, however, the essential section differs from the theoretical section. That is to say the essential section, all through the prologue, the main discourse, and the epilogue, was preached for those people in the beginning of the Latter Age of the Decadent Dharma. The teaching of the essential section during the lifetime of Sakyamuni Buddha and that which would spread in the beginning of the Latter Age are likewise absolutely perfect. However the former is for attaining enlightenment, whereas the latter is for sowing the seed of Buddhahood. While the former is crystallized in the sixteenth chapter, 'Duration of the Life of the Buddha', with half a chapter each preceding and following it, the latter is solely embodied in the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo, the title of the Lotus Sutra." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) pp 120 - 122;


What was referred to by Nichiren as "the teaching for attaining enlightenment" [MW - Buddhism of the Harvest] is the teaching by the historical Buddha during his lifetime, i.e., his spoken words to his disciples. In the Age of Mappo we can only rely on the Lotus Sutra but the manner of its faith, practice, and propagation in the Age of Mappo differs from that done by the historical Buddha during his lifetime. We rely on the Daimoku transmitted by the Buddha to the Bodhisattvas from underground who are commissioned to expound the Lotus Sutra in this Age of Mappo. In Chapter 15 of the Lotus Sutra, the various provisional Bodhisattvas from this and other worlds ask to expound the Lotus Sutra. However, the Buddha demurs saying, "I do not want you to uphold this sutra..."

Nichiren, referencing Tien-tai, discusses this rejection: "After all, Sakyamuni Buddha could not reveal his innermost enlightenment, or the great dharma hidden in the lines of the Duration of the Life of the Buddha Chapter [Chapter 16] to those great bodhisattvas from other worlds who had been guided by the teaching of the theoretical section."

Nichiren continues, explaining that in this Age of Mappo, the essence of the Lotus Sutra, Myo Ho Renge Kyo is taught to the people by the Bodhisattvas from underground, who are the original disciples of Sakyamuni Buddha:

"Lands at the beginning of the Latter Age slander the true dharma and those who live there have poor capacity for comprehension and faith in Buddhism. Therefore, instead of relying on Buddhas from other worlds, the Buddha called out great bodhisattvas from underground to entrust them with the task of transmitting the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo, the essence of the 'Duration of the Life of the Buddha' chapter, to the people in this world. It meant also that those guided by the teaching of the theoretical section were not the original disciples of Sakyamuni Buddha." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) p 126; MW 173.

"Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples of the Buddha since the eternal past, who had sprung up from underground." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) p 140; MW 176.

"Tien-tai comments on this in his 'Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra': Following 'Thereupon Sakyamuni Buddha said to the host of bodhisattvas' is the third section of the chapter on the Divine Powers, summarizing the essence of the Lotus Sutra and transmitting it to the bodhisattvas from underground." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) p 142; MW I:76.

"The manifestation of the ten divine powers in the 21st chapter on the 'Divine Powers' is for the sake of transmitting the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge Kyo to the four bodhisattvas of Jogyo, Muhengyo, Jyogyo and Anryugyo, representing the host of bodhisattvas who had sprung from underground." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) p 142; MW I:76-77.

Nichiren goes on to explain that the time had only just arrived for the bodhisattvas from underground to appear and propagate Myoho Renge Kyo, the excellent medicine for the Latter Age:

"Now we are at the beginning of the Latter Age of the Decadent Dharma, when Hinayana teachings strike down Mahayana teachings, provisional teachings destroy true teachings, east is taken for west and west for east, and heaven and earth are upside down. Under these circumstances, the four ranks of bodhisattva-teachers who preach the theoretical section of the Lotus Sutra remain in hiding. Gods desert the land which they are supposed to protect. Then, for the first time, those bodhisattvas from underground appear in this world to encourage ignorant people to take the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo, the excellent medicine of the Latter Age. Many ignorant people would fall into hell by slandering the five characters, but they would be saved eventually. (NOPPA) pp. 143

The meaning of the Buddhism of the Sowing and the Buddhism of the Harvest is not that there are two different Buddhisms, the Buddhism of Shakyamuni and the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin. It means that this Latter Day is for sowing the seeds of Buddhahood, not for harvesting the seeds.
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by Malcolm »

illarraza wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:45 pm
"Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five characters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples of the Buddha since the eternal past, who had sprung up from underground." Kanjin Honzon Sho, Nichiren Shu (NOPPA 1991) p 140; MW 176.
Really, in Chinese characters? Ancient or modern? In Kanji?
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by tkp67 »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:45 pm
tkp67 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:10 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:59 pm

You still miss the point. All sentient beings have the same potential. That is not given to them by a Buddha. It’s connate, not fabricated. When the Buddha in the LS predicted all beings to full buddhahood, all beings were already in possession of the potential to becomes Buddhas. That’s what ekayana means. There is no special sauce.
I understand what you are saying succinctly. It does not read differently in my mind than yours.
The translation for that passage you are using as a proof text is incorrect. The Watson translation is deprecated, and full of inaccuracies. Therefore, your idea about this passage and its reading are simply incorrect.

It correctly reads:

"“Just as I saw and just as I thought,
And just as I resolved in the past,
My aspirations have been fulfilled
And I teach enlightenment and buddhahood."

As long as you guys keep relying on substandard scholarship, you will be subject to serious deviations in your understanding of the Dharma.
And he saw all phenomena are uniformly empty , tranquil , without birth , without extinction which translates to equal or without distinction

this is why the four standards where taught
They are also defined as those bodhisattvas who follow the four standards: (1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.
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tkp67
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Re: Did Nichiren Shonin create an entirely different Buddhism for our time

Post by tkp67 »

Queequeg wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:22 pm
tkp67 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:10 pm
You must never think that any of the eighty thousand sacred teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha’s lifetime or any of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas of the ten directions and three existences are outside yourself. Your practice of the Buddhist teachings will not relieve you of the sufferings of birth and death in the least unless you perceive the true nature of your life. If you seek enlightenment outside yourself, then your performing even ten thousand practices and ten thousand good deeds will be in vain. It is like the case of a poor man who spends night and day counting his neighbor’s wealth but gains not even half a coin. That is why the T’ien-t’ai school’s commentary states, “Unless p.4one perceives the nature of one’s life, one cannot eradicate one’s grave offenses.”2 This passage implies that, unless one perceives the nature of one’s life, one’s practice will become an endless, painful austerity.
Nichiren was teaching about buddha nature. If you follow up on that reference to that "Tientai school's commentary", this would be clear.
observation of the mind [観心] ( kanjin): To perceive or awaken to the ultimate reality inherent in one’s life. Also, the method of practice that makes this possible. In contrast with doctrinal study of the Buddhist sutras, observation of the mind means to perceive in the depths of one’s being the truth that is beyond verbal explanation. Observing the mind is particularly stressed in T’ien-t’ai’s practice, in which meditation is focused on the true nature of the mind rather than upon some exterior object. In Great Concentration and Insight, T’ien-t’ai (538–597) taught meditation to perceive “the region of the unfathomable,” which is interpreted as either the unification of the three truths in a single mind or three thousand realms in a single moment of life. This means, in essence, to perceive one’s inherent Buddhahood, which is the goal of the T’ien-t’ai system of meditation.
Nichiren (1222–1282) defined T’ien-t’ai’s observation of the mind as follows: “The observation of the mind means to observe one’s own mind and to find the Ten Worlds within it” (356). Nichikan, the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, interpreted the above statement in his Exegesis on “The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind” as follows: “‘To observe one’s own mind’ means to believe in the Gohonzon [the object of devotion in Nichiren’s teaching]. ‘To find the Ten Worlds within it’ means to chant [the daimoku of] the Mystic Law. If only you believe in the Gohonzon and chant the Mystic Law, then the Ten Worlds of the Gohonzon will become the Ten Worlds of your own life.” This interpretation is based on the passage from Nichiren’s Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind that reads: “Shakyamuni’s practices and the virtues he consequently attained are all contained within the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo. If we believe in these five characters, we will naturally be granted the same benefits as he was” (365). In Nichiren’s teaching, the observation of the mind means to believe in the Gohonzon, the embodiment of three thousand realms in a single moment of life, and chant the daimoku. This is the teaching that embracing the Gohonzon is in itself observing one’s own mind, i.e., attaining enlightenment.
Observation of the mind also means to interpret the sutras from the viewpoint of the truth one realizes in one’s life. In Nichiren’s teaching, it means to read the sutras from the viewpoint of the principle of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Last edited by tkp67 on Tue May 25, 2021 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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