how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

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Minobu
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

in a nutshell

MyoHo RenGe Kyo is the Title of the Lotus Sutra..

Namu MyoHo RenGe Kyo is the entity.

it's like the devotional aspect is the key for the Title to become a Living Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha inside you.

you can toss the whole thing away if your think The Eternal Buddha is someone other than Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha .

it was the Namu issue that brought me finally full circle to believe in the way Nichiren Shonin taught us to believe.

weird huh .
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:02 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:01 pm No characters are dropped

Are you purposely being dense?

No characters are dropped

dense?
because we know for sure people blurred out the U ..
when you chant do you focus on Namu as being there or do you just nam and don't bother with the U..like it is not even on your mind at all ?

anyway my question is valid..is the secound Kanji letter needed in order to arrive at the desired meaning


if you are going to drop the u sound you are left with only Nam ..
when taught to chant nam MRK no mention that the U is silent...
due to it being blurred away from people after the Daishonin ..

i don't know about you but the video i showed of the ShoShu priest teaching us to chant...he teaches it without U ..
so like when you say no one is dropping it ...you are being deceitful ..and if people don't bend to your paradigm there are dense..

nice one SZ

you either say it or you don't

you either teach people that Nichiren chanted Nam MRK or Namu MRK

my deal is this:

i no longer look at the ODaimoku the same..

it's like this for me now...

first let's realize the Name of The Entity ...it's Namu MyoHo RenGe Kyo ....not MyoHo RenGe Kyo ...

so it's like before i nam'ed MyoHo RenGe Kyo

now i nam Namu MyoHo RenGe Kyo ..

i look at the Entity this way now...


so i devote and take refuge in the Whole 7 characters...

it's a subtle difference...

What character is being dropped minobu?

What's the difference between a Kanji character and a sound?

In Nichiren Shoshu we chant both nam (the majority) and namu in certain times during gongyo.

No Kanji character is dropped.

What in the above do you have difficulty understanding?
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:16 pm
What character is being dropped minobu?

What's the difference between a Kanji character and a sound?

In Nichiren Shoshu we chant both nam (the majority) and namu in certain times during gongyo.

No Kanji character is dropped.

What in the above do you have difficulty understanding?
Ok you cannot ask:
What's the difference between a Kanji character and a sound?
Thats like disregarding the meaning and listen to various accents pronounce nam or namu ..or u ...for that matter...

You see Kanji are these lil tings called pictograms me mon...pictures for the mind's eye...and intellectuals to create discussion mon...

take it from there mon ...stretch dat ting....
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

It was a straight forward question.

No characters are dropped. That is no Kanji is dropped.

It's already been shown to you

Did you ever chant namu during soka gakki NSA gongyo?

I know that you spent some years with soka gakki why I'm asking.

Different paths and schools will chant differently, difference it's what makes the world go round...

Nothing to get twisted up over. Really
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Does it spin your gears that the Daimoku can also be signed in American sign language?

It can and it is

I sign it t all the time.

Just another perspective for you
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:23 am It was a straight forward question.

No characters are dropped. That is no Kanji is dropped.

It's already been shown to you

Did you ever chant namu during soka gakki NSA gongyo?

I know that you spent some years with soka gakki why I'm asking.

Different paths and schools will chant differently, difference it's what makes the world go round...

Nothing to get twisted up over. Really
If you don’t sound the u or say it’s ok to drop the u means the same thing.
The excuse that it just gets blurred out because sheeple say it is because they are chanting fast doesn’t count if you actually teach it is ok to just say nam. In that case you not only dropped the u but teach and right down that how to chant is nam MRK.

Have you ever seen instructions to chant without the u kanji being sounded. For that means it is no longer the case it is their just blurred out in fast chanting.

So if you teach someone in writing that it is nam and not namu. You dropped the u.

This reminds of people not giving a tinker’s toss about changes made in various sects after the death of the Master.

Some people just go with what ever gang they are affiliated with. And then defend the absurd notion that just because it’s not there and dropped doesn’t mean it’s not there or dropped. Like they won’t even admit that something has been done to bring you to this level of denial.
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Minobu
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Is their anybody out there that can explain to me this. Why is it people write down nam MyoHo RenGe Kyo and tell you to chant like this, and the say no one is dropping the u kanji.

I mean this is like right out of double think 1984.
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Minobu
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

If this is true

I heard the gakki dropped namu altogether in gongyo.

If that’s true. Well

So is it true?
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

So I’m done with this.
Unto other changes made to what Nichiren taught. And did not teach.

Unfortunately these changes are so ingrained now sheeple refuse to allow for doubt. They are told if they question it’s slander. Like what I was accused of for discussing namu issues.

I think it might be part and parcel to The whole Nichiren learning experience. He dug deep into what was available in order to come to His conclusions.
It’s natural to do the same.

The fact you end up with changes demands you buck up and seek the truth.

Nowhere do Nichiren teach to accept blindly. If your sect seems dodgy about stuff and you refuse to consider.

Is that the role Nichiren wanted to play.

I mean take the Eternal Buddha and it’s confusion about it brought on by one obscure sect. One sect after His death says such and such.

Are we not supposed to hound it out till it is solved.

The older I get and the more I realize I don’t know stuff the more I want to learn.

I get the whole formula made up to accommodate Nichiren being Honbutsu. And it is possible but is it real. Was it manufactured with Buddhist concepts to back it up.

I get those concepts. But just because it’s plausible doesn’t make it real.

Too much hiding ones head in the sand to stay loyal.

And Mara dances with joy
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:57 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:23 am It was a straight forward question.

No characters are dropped. That is no Kanji is dropped.

It's already been shown to you

Did you ever chant namu during soka gakki NSA gongyo?

I know that you spent some years with soka gakki why I'm asking.

Different paths and schools will chant differently, difference it's what makes the world go round...

Nothing to get twisted up over. Really
If you don’t sound the u or say it’s ok to drop the u means the same thing.
The excuse that it just gets blurred out because sheeple say it is because they are chanting fast doesn’t count if you actually teach it is ok to just say nam. In that case you not only dropped the u but teach and right down that how to chant is nam MRK.

Have you ever seen instructions to chant without the u kanji being sounded. For that means it is no longer the case it is their just blurred out in fast chanting.

So if you teach someone in writing that it is nam and not namu. You dropped the u.

This reminds of people not giving a tinker’s toss about changes made in various sects after the death of the Master.

Some people just go with what ever gang they are affiliated with. And then defend the absurd notion that just because it’s not there and dropped doesn’t mean it’s not there or dropped. Like they won’t even admit that something has been done to bring you to this level of denial.
If you don't get it by now minobu you simply won't get it. its been explained to you. Repeatedly. In various ways

Probably best to move on

Alright minobu
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:23 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:57 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:23 am It was a straight forward question.

No characters are dropped. That is no Kanji is dropped.

It's already been shown to you

Did you ever chant namu during soka gakki NSA gongyo?

I know that you spent some years with soka gakki why I'm asking.

Different paths and schools will chant differently, difference it's what makes the world go round...

Nothing to get twisted up over. Really
If you don’t sound the u or say it’s ok to drop the u means the same thing.
The excuse that it just gets blurred out because sheeple say it is because they are chanting fast doesn’t count if you actually teach it is ok to just say nam. In that case you not only dropped the u but teach and right down that how to chant is nam MRK.

Have you ever seen instructions to chant without the u kanji being sounded. For that means it is no longer the case it is their just blurred out in fast chanting.

So if you teach someone in writing that it is nam and not namu. You dropped the u.

This reminds of people not giving a tinker’s toss about changes made in various sects after the death of the Master.

Some people just go with what ever gang they are affiliated with. And then defend the absurd notion that just because it’s not there and dropped doesn’t mean it’s not there or dropped. Like they won’t even admit that something has been done to bring you to this level of denial.
If you don't get it by now minobu you simply won't get it. its been explained to you. Repeatedly. In various ways

Probably best to move on

Alright minobu
so you want me to brush it under the rug ..

you won't even answer the simple questions put forth to you and only wish to stop talking about it...pretend it is ok with a group mentality.

this is all part of the disease that hit this Buddhism...
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:25 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:23 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:57 pm
If you don’t sound the u or say it’s ok to drop the u means the same thing.
The excuse that it just gets blurred out because sheeple say it is because they are chanting fast doesn’t count if you actually teach it is ok to just say nam. In that case you not only dropped the u but teach and right down that how to chant is nam MRK.

Have you ever seen instructions to chant without the u kanji being sounded. For that means it is no longer the case it is their just blurred out in fast chanting.

So if you teach someone in writing that it is nam and not namu. You dropped the u.

This reminds of people not giving a tinker’s toss about changes made in various sects after the death of the Master.

Some people just go with what ever gang they are affiliated with. And then defend the absurd notion that just because it’s not there and dropped doesn’t mean it’s not there or dropped. Like they won’t even admit that something has been done to bring you to this level of denial.
If you don't get it by now minobu you simply won't get it. its been explained to you. Repeatedly. In various ways

Probably best to move on

Alright minobu
so you want me to brush it under the rug ..

you won't even answer the simple questions put forth to you and only wish to stop talking about it...pretend it is ok with a group mentality.

this is all part of the disease that hit this Buddhism...
I've answered your question as did others here.

I just don't have any other way to put it to you regarding nam and namu.

Maybe others have more to say on it.

I'm preety well done with trying to explain it to you.

No hard feelings.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:31 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:25 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:23 pm

If you don't get it by now minobu you simply won't get it. its been explained to you. Repeatedly. In various ways

Probably best to move on

Alright minobu
so you want me to brush it under the rug ..

you won't even answer the simple questions put forth to you and only wish to stop talking about it...pretend it is ok with a group mentality.

this is all part of the disease that hit this Buddhism...
I've answered your question as did others here.

I just don't have any other way to put it to you regarding nam and namu.

Maybe others have more to say on it.

I'm preety well done with trying to explain it to you.

No hard feelings.
show me where you answered my qusetions in this thread on the matter..

all you do is deny the fact you don't teach people to chant as originally taught..

you are in a sect that changed the teachings drastically and now you deny that you don't teach people to chant nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you teach them to chant namu myoho renge kyo as did the Master Saint Nichiren shonin.

you need to read the part where Lord Sakyamuni Buddha says to question authority .and always ask questions.

this is Your Guru Buddha...bow before Him when chanting to Gohonzon.

you will feel better and this is the aid to mental illness.
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:38 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:31 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:25 pm

so you want me to brush it under the rug ..

you won't even answer the simple questions put forth to you and only wish to stop talking about it...pretend it is ok with a group mentality.

this is all part of the disease that hit this Buddhism...
I've answered your question as did others here.

I just don't have any other way to put it to you regarding nam and namu.

Maybe others have more to say on it.

I'm preety well done with trying to explain it to you.

No hard feelings.
show me where you answered my qusetions in this thread on the matter..

all you do is deny the fact you don't teach people to chant as originally taught..

you are in a sect that changed the teachings drastically and now you deny that you don't teach people to chant nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you teach them to chant namu myoho renge kyo as did the Master Saint Nichiren shonin.

you need to read the part where Lord Sakyamuni Buddha says to question authority .and always ask questions.

this is Your Guru Buddha...bow before Him when chanting to Gohonzon.

you will feel better and this is the aid to mental illness.
Alright minobu
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:41 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:38 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:31 pm

I've answered your question as did others here.

I just don't have any other way to put it to you regarding nam and namu.

Maybe others have more to say on it.

I'm preety well done with trying to explain it to you.

No hard feelings.
show me where you answered my qusetions in this thread on the matter..

all you do is deny the fact you don't teach people to chant as originally taught..

you are in a sect that changed the teachings drastically and now you deny that you don't teach people to chant nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you teach them to chant namu myoho renge kyo as did the Master Saint Nichiren shonin.

you need to read the part where Lord Sakyamuni Buddha says to question authority .and always ask questions.

this is Your Guru Buddha...bow before Him when chanting to Gohonzon.

you will feel better and this is the aid to mental illness.
Alright minobu
\cool so you are at least going to try to chant like Nichiren Shonin did and to Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha as The Eternal Buddha depicted on Gohonzon..

very good SZ...it takes a brave first step to at least try...

i'm proud of you. The gods and all the Buddhas will see to it you get reward for your efforts and they will all rejoice for you...your ignorance will melt away like snow...revealing the beauty of your reality with Gohonzon.
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:36 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:41 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:38 pm

show me where you answered my qusetions in this thread on the matter..

all you do is deny the fact you don't teach people to chant as originally taught..

you are in a sect that changed the teachings drastically and now you deny that you don't teach people to chant nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you teach them to chant namu myoho renge kyo as did the Master Saint Nichiren shonin.

you need to read the part where Lord Sakyamuni Buddha says to question authority .and always ask questions.

this is Your Guru Buddha...bow before Him when chanting to Gohonzon.

you will feel better and this is the aid to mental illness.
Alright minobu
\cool so you are at least going to try to chant like Nichiren Shonin did and to Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha as The Eternal Buddha depicted on Gohonzon..

very good SZ...it takes a brave first step to at least try...

i'm proud of you. The gods and all the Buddhas will see to it you get reward for your efforts and they will all rejoice for you...your ignorance will melt away like snow...revealing the beauty of your reality with Gohonzon.
I chant the way my school and path chants.

I trust my school and path. And those who lead it.

As for you I have not issues regarding how you chant. You chant how ever you wish.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:36 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:41 pm

Alright minobu
\cool so you are at least going to try to chant like Nichiren Shonin did and to Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha as The Eternal Buddha depicted on Gohonzon..

very good SZ...it takes a brave first step to at least try...

i'm proud of you. The gods and all the Buddhas will see to it you get reward for your efforts and they will all rejoice for you...your ignorance will melt away like snow...revealing the beauty of your reality with Gohonzon.
I chant the way my school and path chants.

I trust my school and path. And those who lead it.

As for you I have not issues regarding how you chant. You chant how ever you wish.
oh....

well thats depressing..i was so sure you finally thought it time to give it a try...

So what about at least you are chanting to Lord Sakyamuni as The Eternal Buddha...you got that right at least...

in time the other will make sense to you as long as you stay the course and chant with at least the proper understanding...

motive is a big thing...and wanting to do the practice properly is motive...
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:07 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:36 pm

\cool so you are at least going to try to chant like Nichiren Shonin did and to Lord Guru Sakyamuni Buddha as The Eternal Buddha depicted on Gohonzon..

very good SZ...it takes a brave first step to at least try...

i'm proud of you. The gods and all the Buddhas will see to it you get reward for your efforts and they will all rejoice for you...your ignorance will melt away like snow...revealing the beauty of your reality with Gohonzon.
I chant the way my school and path chants.

I trust my school and path. And those who lead it.

As for you I have not issues regarding how you chant. You chant how ever you wish.
oh....

well thats depressing..i was so sure you finally thought it time to give it a try...

So what about at least you are chanting to Lord Sakyamuni as The Eternal Buddha...you got that right at least...

in time the other will make sense to you as long as you stay the course and chant with at least the proper understanding...

motive is a big thing...and wanting to do the practice properly is motive...

Give what a try minobu?

Don't misrepresent me. I've been clear in my posts if anything in my post is unclear just ask for clarification. Don't misrepresent me.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by narhwal90 »

Please keep the discussion civil or I will lock the thread.
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Re: how changes affect us in Nichiren Shonin's denominations

Post by Minobu »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:23 am 南: な = "na"
無: む = "mu"

Might the "m" in "nam" be considered a contraction of 無 rather than an elimination of it? The "m" sound is part of 無 rather than 南.

If both "it's" and "it is" are considered valid, might both "nam" and "namu" be considered valid?
I've been having trouble trying to say NA Mu Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo as fast as possible so the u sound disappears..

it won't happen for me. You try it....

then just now whilst chanting i recalled this post..

the Kanji are NA and Mu ...


ok also fair the well everyone ..it's been nice...
I wasn't going to post anymore btw us this is it...

oddly enough ....

but it sums me up...a stickler for the original pure teachings...
i want to thank Illarazza.. trust me he is a gem and should be listened to..not muzzled ..

also big shout out to tkp67 who brought me to a more compassionate place of reverence for anyone practicing or trying to practice This Buddhism .

He also should not be muzzled or made fun of his art ..he produces Nichiren Shonin's teachings as an internet art form...i get him..

:heart: :group: :heart:
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