Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Malcolm
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

illarraza wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 pmso i have made it a point to emulate Nichiren and see the results.
:popcorn:
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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This is the kind of thread that makes me wanna stay away from nichiren buddhism
narhwal90
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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illarraza wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 pm
narhwal90 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:19 pm
illarraza wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:01 am

They are one in the same. Praise of the Lotus Sutra is an important part of the practice. Some things are apparent. For example, there are 119 exhortations to violence in the Q'uran and not one exhortation to violence in the Lotus Sutra. Why would a Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhist ever compare favorably the Q'uran to the Lotus Sutra? Yet some do. I am a basketball aficionado. When discussing the greatest basketball players, the conversation turns to Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain,Bill Russell, Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird, for example. Who will argue that the 12th men on their teams are some of the greatest to ever play the game? Who can even remember their names? Likewise, the Lotus Sutra is the most profound, wonderful, redeeming, curative, splendid Sutra. Regarding non-exclusivism, Nichiren teaches the following:
That is an interesting point. I don't care in the least about basketball or sports in general. I recognize a few of those names from news headlines but don't know anything about them; I have other priorities, other interests. Why should a practitioner who has other interests and different focus, not convinced by the supremacy argument or Tiantai's sutra classification be swayed?
Where the Lotus Sutra talks about it's superiority should suffice. Where Tientai teachings agree with Nichiren's, they should be accepted but where they diverge, Nichiren is the teacher for the Latter Day. He teaches that laymen need not perform break and subdue practice but nowhere in his teachings nor in the Lotus Sutra do they countenance slander. They consider slander, mere disbelief in the Lotus Sutra, let alone arguing that the Muryogu kyo, the Greater and Lesser Amida Sutras, the Sutras of the Wisdom period or the Flower Garland Sutra is equal to the Lotus Sutra.It is enough for a layman to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo and support those who put their lives and reputation on the line performing the Forceful Practices (usually priests). Some criticize me, "you are not a priest" but i counter that i don't see many priests performing the forceful practices, so i have made it a point to emulate Nichiren and see the results. Since I personally have not experienced punishment, as far as I can tell, I will continue the course. Please remember that even the foolish if they maintain steadfast faith are assured Enlightenment but Enlightenment will allude even the the most knowledgeable, if they fail to have steadfast faith,
Doesn't suffice for me. Many sutras make many claims. I don't believe or disbelieve the Lotus Sutra, to me it is a method of handling and interpreting the mind; instruction on how to view practice. Other sutras instruct in other ways. To judge is to grasp, project and misunderstand.

To me, Nichiren is a teacher, there are many others. Stating that does not denigrate Nichiren in the least. Clearly you have a different view, which is fine with me.

I will take a risk of offending and go out on this limb since it has been on my mind for some time; watching you has been very interesting. From my perspective your methods are a perfect example of the poison drum; we (meaning not just me) see endless hostility and animosity from you towards other Nichiren schools (not to mention all other schools and religions), as well as frequent sowing of discord; but that intense grasping at the Lotus Sutra may well have its protective effect. I have little doubt that your practice also brings you courage and solace.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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Placeholder for a post not accepted because of excessive quotation, please see Nichiren forum posting rules https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=26060
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by Budai »

I am a Nichiren Buddhist who embraces all of Buddhism as what I believe to be the Correct Way, and I find Buddhist Truths in all Paths that truly come from Shakyamuni's Teachings, as well as the Mystic Law within all of Maitri and Compassion.

In the Lotus Sutra I believe it is clearly stated that the Buddha's purpose is to teach and convert the Bodhisattvas, and it is known to us that Bodhisattvas are found all along Mahāyāna, Vajrayana, and Theravada Buddhism. Therefore I believe that the Buddha was referring to Mahāyāna, Theravada, and Vajrayana as the three "Expedient" vehicles that are preached as One Great Vehicle by Him. He clearly says that there is only one Vehicle, and that He has never and would never be guilty of greed or stinginess in converting someone with a lesser Vehicle. Yet we have so many Buddhas, clearly, all across Vajrayana, Theravada, and Mahāyāna, and of course they are also not guilty of using a lesser Vehicle. Therefore when the Buddha preaches that there is only one Vehicle and that there is not two or three, I believe He is referring to the Great Vehicle (including Mahāyāna, Theravada, and Vajrayana, and not just limited to one of them) used to convert all to His Teachings in Buddhism, fully formulated and found in The Lotus Sutra. In that way Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is for everyone, and so is by far the reading and recitation of the Lotus Sutra, and it is especially for all Buddhists if they choose to take up such a great Path and work. It is not simply for a certain sect of Buddhism, and I believe to propigate such a message is true Kosen-Rufu. I have met a Theravada Buddhist who achieved Enlightenment by chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, and constant meditation, and that day He was the happiest person on Earth.

So if we accept the words of the Lotus Sutra, we accept the words of Shakyamuni, that no Buddhism is false. If it's Buddhism, it's always infused with the Mystic Law of the Lotus Sutra, and therefore always beneficial. There may have been a Spiritual battle for Nichiren against heretical monks of His day, but what His work and chanting, as well as propagation of the Lotus Sutra has done is balance out the problems with certain Buddhist Schools, and now the entirety of the Buddhist world lives in honour, because everyone has been working together, despite Mappo. So I urge everyone to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo if it's something they want to do, they don't have to even commit to it, it's a beautiful Mantra that can bring out the best feelings of Bodhicitta, and I believe it is for all Buddhists!

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
In the Buddha lands of the ten directions
there is only the Law of the one vehicle,
there are not two, there are not three,
except when the Buddha preaches so as an expedient means,
merely employing provisional names and terms
in order to conduct and guide living beings
and preach to them the Buddha wisdom.

He himself testifies to the unsurpassed way,
the Great Vehicle, the Law in which all things are equal.
If I used a lesser vehicle
to convert even one person,
I would be guilty of stinginess and greed,
but such a thing would be impossible.
If a person will believe and take refuge in the Buddha,
the Thus Come One will never deceive him,
nor will he ever show greed or jealousy,
for he has rooted out evil from among the phenomena.
-The Lotus Sutra, Chapter 2, Expedient Means.
Last edited by Budai on Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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narhwal90 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:50 pm
Doesn't suffice for me. Many sutras make many claims. I don't believe or disbelieve the Lotus Sutra, to me it is a method of handling and interpreting the mind; instruction on how to view practice. Other sutras instruct in other ways. To judge is to grasp, project and misunderstand.

To me, Nichiren is a teacher, there are many others. Stating that does not denigrate Nichiren in the least. Clearly you have a different view, which is fine with me.

I will take a risk of offending and go out on this limb since it has been on my mind for some time; watching you has been very interesting. From my perspective your methods are a perfect example of the poison drum; we (meaning not just me) see endless hostility and animosity from you towards other Nichiren schools (not to mention all other schools and religions), as well as frequent sowing of discord; but that intense grasping at the Lotus Sutra may well have its protective effect. I have little doubt that your practice also brings you courage and solace.
I have spent a great deal of time considering this matter as well.

What it does is forces people to address their understanding of the Lotus sutra. It was meant to be used in times when Buddhist teachings as well as religious teachings are used against each other to the detriment of the sentient beings they are meant to benefit. It does so with incredible economy of effort to achieve this over a population within a given time period thus the superiority. The buddha put the dictate of superiority within the sutra by encapsulating immeasurable meanings of his own enlightenment within.

According to my teacher when these teachings came west they grew quickly but with out enough supervision to assure they did not deviate from the essence of the sutra itself. While this can be seen from a negative perspective can it be said to have failed according to the intent? That is to say the propagation of Buddhism has taken centuries to over millennium to reach the population. Within the last couple hundred years humanity has interconnected past traditional boundaries. I think the rapid propagation to that size demographic could not have been done with the surgical precision hoped for. It lacks cognizance of the depth of suffering and decadence people of this age express. It expects like capacity. This does not resemble the compassion that drove Shakyamuni to seek an answer for all suffering.

To look at it from the perspective of the time Shakyamuni lived it is important to keep in mind the society and their religious caste system. To understand the time and the true nature of provisional teachings it helps to understand the perspective of those he taught directly. The three fold sutra mentions that Bodhisattva Mahasattva had completed Brahmin practices before encountering this sutra. This is a very important concept because it underlines the Shakyamuni's cause.

In today's degenerate age there many people are distanced from the concept of these past practices there is a huge lack in context. The same lack of context can be seen in application of Nichiren's perspective centuries ago to 2020. It misses the point of the sutra. It also it forces the concept of nihilism making the sutra difficult to understand at face value forcing the poison drum. How much harder would it be to open the minds of those who don't believe in agency whatsoever. External or internal. This is the challenge that these teachings encountered. They are still being propagated even in light of this. This illustrates transcendental capacities and potency.

There hasn't been a predicate upon which to observe cause and effect and understand it as such. These dialogs actually create the opportunity to understand this sutra with clarity as well as understand the intent and depth of Nichiren's own tradition.

The ignorance this tradition has revealed is to be expected. It is the ultimate disservice to the buddha to think his ultimate teaching should be as easy to propagate as it is to get impulse items at 7/11. The fact that it has been encountered at all is an immeasurable gift. This is why I make a point of asking for a measurement when people cast claims of doubt or comparison. If this sutra contained metrics that could measure such things it would not be the ultimate representation of perfect and supreme enlightenment.

To discount the value of this sutra is simply a lack of understanding it. To distill buddhism to any one ordinary view is the very thing nichiren seeks to correct. Our own ordinary view of buddhism from our own perspective is naturally provisional. It is naturally relative. Not only the mind but societies are conditioned accordingly to see understand through life provision. How would people know Japan in the same way if the name did not describe specific provinces? This is such a pervasive function of the mind that the Lotus is required because even paths are provisional.

Lastly this sutra teaches at the assembly that the cause and effect of Shakyamui's enlightenment is thus. I do believe that the ultimate proof of this sutra is that it is impossible to prove otherwise limiting conclusions the typical conclusions as simply manifestations of doubt.

Shakabuku and shoju accomplish the same thing. They are correction. It is like swimming in the cold ocean, jump in or go in slowly the purpose is the same. The way they are viewed differs but not the cause and effect. Just the time it takes to evoke that change. I mention this because correction in the moment or correction over a period of time can be done with the same level of respect and compassion. I feel this is ultimately the facet of eliminating disparaging within our own mind that Nichiren speaks of. That provision will always be variable and there should be no attachment to provision among practitioners even though it is most surely an important aspect of our existence. I do feel as though attachment to provision is the catalyst to negative dialog within this tradition. If it can be addressed I think there can be more fruitful participation within it.

:anjali:
mansurhirbi87
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

a very nice article related to Nichiren "exclusivism" :

https://www.nichirenbayarea.org/real-li ... ur-dictums
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Minobu
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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I agree with the concept of misappropriating ideals from what Nichiren Daishonin actually taught in order to bring bad light upon the man and His Teachings.

The royal court and the politico's of the time hated this man . The exiles and attempts to His life are proof.
I think a lot of history has been rewritten by these people in order to save what they think is True Buddhist Thought and Practice at the time of Nichiren Daishonin.

Too much was at stake for these people holding unto deathbed wishes for paradise.

Nichiren Daishonin was more upset with what Tendai morphed into and is now . An intellectual trip from what i gather. He took the teachings of TenTai and finished their intent.

He brought the means to understand Buddha Nature and enabled a peasant like me well into the future to enter The Stream .

people who look for an intellectual road to Buddhahood forget entirely the value of the story of Shariputra.

Shariputra's approach is to be avoided.

Not that intellect is a bad thing ...lol...Lord Manjushri Buddha is a whole other ball of wax as far as knowledge is concerned.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Hi Everone!

Nichiren Daishonin was clear on mixing teachings. He states in "Reply to Ueno" ("Ueno dono-gohenji"),
To mix other practices with this Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is a grave error. A lamp will be useless after the sun rises. How can dewdrops be beneficial once the rain falls? Should one feed a newborn baby with anything other than its mother’s milk? Good medicine works by itself; there is no need to add other medicine.

(Gosho, p. 1219)
I believe it is important that we follow what the Daishonin actually taught. To attain Buddhahood in Mappo, we must consistently do gongyo and chant Daimoku to the Gohonzon with strong faith and conduct shakubuku - refuting slander and revealing the truth.

Three of the 14 slanders include arrogance, arbitrary egotistical judgment, and shallow self-satisfied understanding. We must always be on guard against these. If we disregard what Nichiren Daishonin taught about mixing practices and doing shakubuku, we are committing the 14 slanders. We are arrogantly putting our own ideas and opinions over that of the Daishonin, as well as Shakyamuni Buddha Tiantai, Miaole, and Dengyo.

The Great Teacher Tiantai stated in "Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra ("Hokke genji"):
The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.
In the gosho, Nichiren Daishonin teaches that in the evil age of the Latter Day of the Law we must do shakubuku, not shoju. Nichiren Daishonin and Nikko Shonin both taught the importance of strongly refuting slander. After the Daishonin's death, five senior priests (goroso) abandoned the practice of shakubuku in favor of shoju out of fear of reprisal from the Kamakura government. Nikko Shonin strongly admonished them for this.

Thus, it is important in Mappo to do shakubku and not mix the Daishonin's Buddhism with provisional teachings.
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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Minobu wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:16 pm Nichiren Daishonin was more upset with what Tendai morphed into and is now . An intellectual trip from what i gather. He took the teachings of TenTai and finished their intent.

He brought the means to understand Buddha Nature and enabled a peasant like me well into the future to enter The Stream .
Yes but ultimately I believe he wanted a vehicle that looks identical from the outside, is the one vehicle, is practiced as such but reconciles path and teaches the differential as required according to cause, capacity and conditions. Those minds that are not satisfied with the simplicity of certain doctrine are drawn to another. Both zen and TenTai for example seem to have different means on the spectrum of practice that have their own appeal. Nichiren practitioners represent this variety with the demographics here. I don't believe Nichiren saw peasant mind, ruler mind or scholar mind as more or less worthy. Rather their worth is universal.

IMHO this is one of the most critical parts of the assembly. All those in attendance represented a different cause, capacity and condition but were all in attendance all the same. All the attributes of the buddha's enlightenment were held in some part by those in attendance. If we eliminate the concept of individuality then the buddha had exuded all his attributes to the assembly hiding them in plain site among the attendants.

This would lead to the credence of the statement I am always in the saha world because aspects of his enlightenment are manifest all around us in various forms.

Is this part of what he meant by the saha world and the pure world being one in the same?

:anjali:
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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_johnarundel_ wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:46 pm Hi Everone!

Nichiren Daishonin was clear on mixing teachings. He states in "Reply to Ueno" ("Ueno dono-gohenji"),
To mix other practices with this Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is a grave error. A lamp will be useless after the sun rises. How can dewdrops be beneficial once the rain falls? Should one feed a newborn baby with anything other than its mother’s milk? Good medicine works by itself; there is no need to add other medicine.

(Gosho, p. 1219)
I believe it is important that we follow what the Daishonin actually taught. To attain Buddhahood in Mappo, we must consistently do gongyo and chant Daimoku to the Gohonzon with strong faith and conduct shakubuku - refuting slander and revealing the truth.

Three of the 14 slanders include arrogance, arbitrary egotistical judgment, and shallow self-satisfied understanding. We must always be on guard against these. If we disregard what Nichiren Daishonin taught about mixing practices and doing shakubuku, we are committing the 14 slanders. We are arrogantly putting our own ideas and opinions over that of the Daishonin, as well as Shakyamuni Buddha Tiantai, Miaole, and Dengyo.

The Great Teacher Tiantai stated in "Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra ("Hokke genji"):
The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.
In the gosho, Nichiren Daishonin teaches that in the evil age of the Latter Day of the Law we must do shakubuku, not shoju. Nichiren Daishonin and Nikko Shonin both taught the importance of strongly refuting slander. After the Daishonin's death, five senior priests (goroso) abandoned the practice of shakubuku in favor of shoju out of fear of reprisal from the Kamakura government. Nikko Shonin strongly admonished them for this.

Thus, it is important in Mappo to do shakubku and not mix the Daishonin's Buddhism with provisional teachings.
I believe it worthy of its own thread and respectfully feel that the topic is not simply black and white as presented which seems to be a fundamental issue the application of these teachings in 2020.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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If one reads Nichiren's writings Nichiren and the Lotus and study the function of cause and effect it becomes apparent that in order for expedient means are meant to be discarded they must first be understood as such.

Without them being understood within each individual's life as such one cannot attempt to reveal the absolute.

That is the problem with the degenerate age. There is no provision because people don't believe in external agency and many blame the use of any agency within the mind, even its own as a malignancy. While the provisional exists and is expressed all around us it is still no longer as easily understood.

Deep within the writings he explains this and that for this teaching to be effective both must happen.

Imagine how unreasonable it would seem to expect provision to be established and forced against itself in less than one generation of prorogation and then forcing "break and subdue". How can you teach someone mutual possession of realms they don't conceive as such?
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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_johnarundel_ wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:46 pm Hi Everone!

Nichiren Daishonin was clear on mixing teachings. He states in "Reply to Ueno" ("Ueno dono-gohenji"),
To mix other practices with this Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is a grave error. A lamp will be useless after the sun rises. How can dewdrops be beneficial once the rain falls? Should one feed a newborn baby with anything other than its mother’s milk? Good medicine works by itself; there is no need to add other medicine.

(Gosho, p. 1219)
I believe it is important that we follow what the Daishonin actually taught. To attain Buddhahood in Mappo, we must consistently do gongyo and chant Daimoku to the Gohonzon with strong faith and conduct shakubuku - refuting slander and revealing the truth.

Three of the 14 slanders include arrogance, arbitrary egotistical judgment, and shallow self-satisfied understanding. We must always be on guard against these. If we disregard what Nichiren Daishonin taught about mixing practices and doing shakubuku, we are committing the 14 slanders. We are arrogantly putting our own ideas and opinions over that of the Daishonin, as well as Shakyamuni Buddha Tiantai, Miaole, and Dengyo.

The Great Teacher Tiantai stated in "Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra ("Hokke genji"):
The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.
In the gosho, Nichiren Daishonin teaches that in the evil age of the Latter Day of the Law we must do shakubuku, not shoju. Nichiren Daishonin and Nikko Shonin both taught the importance of strongly refuting slander. After the Daishonin's death, five senior priests (goroso) abandoned the practice of shakubuku in favor of shoju out of fear of reprisal from the Kamakura government. Nikko Shonin strongly admonished them for this.

Thus, it is important in Mappo to do shakubku and not mix the Daishonin's Buddhism with provisional teachings.
Problem that arises is how one interprets the idea of what Nichiren Shonin was conveying. What and where is his anger directed at.

I say anger cause that’s the tone of the interpretation
So like is it Buddhism He attacking and calling it mixing. How would Nichiren Shonin detach himself from Buddhism?

So it don’t think it’s Buddhism He is addressing here.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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Minobu wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:41 pm Problem that arises is how one interprets the idea of what Nichiren Shonin was conveying. What and where is his anger directed at.

I say anger cause that’s the tone of the interpretation
So like is it Buddhism He attacking and calling it mixing. How would Nichiren Shonin detach himself from Buddhism?

So it don’t think it’s Buddhism He is addressing here.
I don't think he was angry, I think that a votary of the lotus sutra acts as a mirror to the minds who interpret his words.

Our age is an age of anger and hunger so the words of the votary will be seen as such at face value yet plants a deeper seed which is why one might be drawn back to the same teaching. There is more to it than appears but it is hard to articulate might describe this.

Although this is not to say the urgency isn't absolutely real. Nichiren was no different than Shakaymuni as far as being the "father" of this world. That is all of his teachings should be considered in that light, as if a father is doing everything he can to save all of his children even those who are at odds with one another and are reliant on each other to escape. In fact a better analogy in the degenerate age would be the children are burning their own house down and blocking the doors and locking each other in and each things they are from a different family.

This is the problem to be pondered and the heart it should be approached from. These are all my children. I am all their fathers. These are all my parents, these are all my teachers, these are all my buddha I am the child to all of these.

The negative emotions expressed by many are simply reflective of a degeneracy everyone possesses equal ownership over. There isn't one savior who will do it for us. The true purpose of this sutra is to impart the boundless storehouse of buddha wisdom one and all without exception. That is why attempting to discuss it now online also encounters a huge paradigm shift which is a big topic on its own.

:anjali:
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

i guess the topic about Nichiren's exclusivism is a very important one.
I disagree a little bit with Minubu about the role the intelect has in Nichiren buddhism, although, of course, i know that the opennes to the not educated people practice and achieve buddhahood is something amazing in Nichiren as to Shinran too, maybe Dogen too.
Nichiren himself was a kind of intelectual of his time and i think he would
Another point more related to other Nichiren branchs is : the monks , theorically, study a lot and their role is teach to the others but where are their books, their translations ?????? By the way i have almost the same criticism to Gakkai. i think they should have in all kaikans or big centers a departament to study more profoundly. Beside it Gakkai is resposible to a lot of translations, to make Nichiren buddhism accesible to simple and humble people (almost sure to West general), etc
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

There are a number of highly intellectual gosho Nichiren wrote to other Tendai monks- the 18 Perfections for example

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/331

its interesting reading but it seems a bit like a sales pitch- Nichiren explaining how his doctrine is expressed in this obscure Tendai doctrine.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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Here is my thoughts about minds and intellect.

Intellect evokes grasping, it employs hypothesis, it formulates ideas from external stimulus and data. As grand as intellect can express itself it is not wisdom. Wisdom does not require verbose and complex intellect.It simply needs awareness.

Nichiren could appeal to all minds equally. The teachings are as complex and simple required by the practitioner and scale perfectly within these dynamics.

Often the most intellectual minds have the greatest difficulty placing themselves in a seat of awareness for even a moment because the agency of their intelligence is so difficult to escape. In the degenerate age it can lead to great reward and accolades which do not necessarily equate to virtue or benefit buddhist practice yet society rewards and lauds this behavior making it even harder to parse obfuscation from clarity.

If we look at the application of this teaching in accordance to mind it was also pragmatically crafted so it could be maintained and propagated even by those who had no resource for written materials past bare minimums. It scales to cause, condition and capacity. It also employs an absolute genius level of economy of efforts for a maximum benefit in seeking the perfect and supreme enlightenment of Shakyamuni within one's own life.

At some point as foretold in the sutra and writings jealous and hatred rise in light of this sutra. This is because all provision has a conceptual diametric opposite. Good and evil, dark and light, birth and death. All these things. So when a mind first encounters the daimoku it appeals to provision. If one is overly attached to that provision the sutra exposes this. This would lend to the phenomenon of people seeing differences such as intellect, education, wealth as actually meaningful in regards to buddhist practice.

Shakyamuni left a seat were all those things were already in his possession and abandoned all those things to make himself equal with all sentient beings. If he was so compelled to forgo all these things in his existence so one might know the Lotus sutra that is one's own life how can one expect to understand this teaching if one compares human value according to such metrics?

i know how deeply ingrained and how difficult questioning some of these subtle biases on an individual level can be. It does seem essential in regards to understanding this teaching.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

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mansurhirbi87 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:38 am i guess the topic about Nichiren's exclusivism is a very important one.
I disagree a little bit with Minubu about the role the intelect has in Nichiren buddhism,
To be precise my attitude on Nichiren shonin is that he was an intellectual. He could debate with anyone on any level and never lose.

so if you think Nichiren was some kind of shrub your mistaken...
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:10 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:41 pm Problem that arises is how one interprets the idea of what Nichiren Shonin was conveying. What and where is his anger directed at.

I say anger cause that’s the tone of the interpretation
So like is it Buddhism He attacking and calling it mixing. How would Nichiren Shonin detach himself from Buddhism?

So it don’t think it’s Buddhism He is addressing here.
I don't think he was angry, I think that a votary of the lotus sutra acts as a mirror to the minds who interpret his words.

Our age is an age of anger and hunger so the words of the votary will be seen as such at face value yet plants a deeper seed which is why one might be drawn back to the same teaching. There is more to it than appears but it is hard to articulate might describe this.

Although this is not to say the urgency isn't absolutely real. Nichiren was no different than Shakaymuni as far as being the "father" of this world. That is all of his teachings should be considered in that light, as if a father is doing everything he can to save all of his children even those who are at odds with one another and are reliant on each other to escape. In fact a better analogy in the degenerate age would be the children are burning their own house down and blocking the doors and locking each other in and each things they are from a different family.

This is the problem to be pondered and the heart it should be approached from. These are all my children. I am all their fathers. These are all my parents, these are all my teachers, these are all my buddha I am the child to all of these.

The negative emotions expressed by many are simply reflective of a degeneracy everyone possesses equal ownership over. There isn't one savior who will do it for us. The true purpose of this sutra is to impart the boundless storehouse of buddha wisdom one and all without exception. That is why attempting to discuss it now online also encounters a huge paradigm shift which is a big topic on its own.

:anjali:
The Mutual Possession of the Ten Worlds demonstrates that the World of Anger exists in the World of Buddha. The Anger of Buddhahood or Bodhisattvahood is a very real aspect of being, especially when seeing the teachings destroyed. One may call it righteous anger.
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Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:26 am
tkp67 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:10 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:41 pm Problem that arises is how one interprets the idea of what Nichiren Shonin was conveying. What and where is his anger directed at.

I say anger cause that’s the tone of the interpretation
So like is it Buddhism He attacking and calling it mixing. How would Nichiren Shonin detach himself from Buddhism?

So it don’t think it’s Buddhism He is addressing here.
I don't think he was angry, I think that a votary of the lotus sutra acts as a mirror to the minds who interpret his words.

Our age is an age of anger and hunger so the words of the votary will be seen as such at face value yet plants a deeper seed which is why one might be drawn back to the same teaching. There is more to it than appears but it is hard to articulate might describe this.

Although this is not to say the urgency isn't absolutely real. Nichiren was no different than Shakaymuni as far as being the "father" of this world. That is all of his teachings should be considered in that light, as if a father is doing everything he can to save all of his children even those who are at odds with one another and are reliant on each other to escape. In fact a better analogy in the degenerate age would be the children are burning their own house down and blocking the doors and locking each other in and each things they are from a different family.

This is the problem to be pondered and the heart it should be approached from. These are all my children. I am all their fathers. These are all my parents, these are all my teachers, these are all my buddha I am the child to all of these.

The negative emotions expressed by many are simply reflective of a degeneracy everyone possesses equal ownership over. There isn't one savior who will do it for us. The true purpose of this sutra is to impart the boundless storehouse of buddha wisdom one and all without exception. That is why attempting to discuss it now online also encounters a huge paradigm shift which is a big topic on its own.

:anjali:
The Mutual Possession of the Ten Worlds demonstrates that the World of Anger exists in the World of Buddha. The Anger of Buddhahood or Bodhisattvahood is a very real aspect of being, especially when seeing the teachings destroyed. One may call it righteous anger.
Yet that rudimentary perspective falls apart under the inspection of the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni's existence which is the very basis for mutual possession of the ten realms.

Possession of the ten realms is understanding how one's own mind manifests these realms in one's own mind and the mind of others not in possession of the ten realms. That marks Shakyamuni's behavior as a human being after his enlightenment. Attempting to infuse the properties of the lower realms as a facet of mutual possession does not teach it as thus or more specifically as Shakyamuni's enlightenment but rather it simply becomes a teaching of the realm of anger.
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