Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

bcol01
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by bcol01 »

Would love your thoughts on this.
User avatar
Shotenzenjin
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:23 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

That depends on sect and school

For Nichiren shoshu true buddhism, it encompasses everything you need to attain Buddhahood in this life

All other teachings are provisional. Mixing different schools or paths will only lead to confusion.

As for other school or sect teachings others will Post their position which differs.

.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11227
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Queequeg »

Reword that question - as a living being, is it ok to seek advice about life from others?

Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
bcol01
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by bcol01 »

Thank you Quee! Btw, nice new profile pic lol
Queequeg wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:07 am Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
User avatar
Shotenzenjin
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:23 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Queequeg wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:07 am Reword that question - as a living being, is it ok to seek advice about life from others?

Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
Interesting.
Isn't "all you need" also the claim of vajrayana and budhism itself?

I'm curious as I dont know the answer. how would vajrayana lama, and gurus take a student who Also wanted to practice Nichiren?
Last edited by Shotenzenjin on Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

Nichiren teaches to evaluate everything from the perspective of the lotus sutra including provisional teachings. He encourages investigation of all teachings buddhist and non buddhist teachings alike. So inquiry and understanding is reasonable if the lotus is that as a basis for comparison and understanding. I was taught the lotus he is referring to is one's own life. However as times have changed so have some perspectives. I don't believe them to be inappropriate but one must decide for one's self.

My teacher also imparted onto me that we should propagate the true teachings only and not the provisional. I had been bringing some provisional aspects into conversation with others for perspective. He objected and I explained that the provisional teachings are familial and that I reconciliation of the provisional to the true as it has been in my life was essential to me. Instead of a direct answer he asked me then "so it is filial piety?"

Now I will think about this a while and filed it in the back cabinet of my mind. At some point I came to the personal conclusion that this reconciliation was fine and respecting the teachings of others appropriate. However they are relative to my family and those I am connected to through those provisional teachings. If I attached outwardly or integrated them to the teachings of Nichiren it would associate the teachings to a provision could be problematic.

This is where the description of function within these phenomenon becomes so dominant in this practice.
The twelfth is called the perfection of the provisional [the nine worlds] and the true [Buddhahood] because, when one realizes the doctrines of the Lotus Sutra, one will find that one’s life is true and at the same time provisional, provisional and at the same time true. Provisional and true are mutually identical, without lack or deficiency, and therefore they represent the Law that is endowed with the three bodies. Hence this is the Law that is constantly preached and set forth by the Buddhas. [Hence the identity of the true and the provisional is called lotus.]
“The ninth is called the perfection of benefits because Myoho-renge-kyo is endowed with the benefits of all practices, and possesses the superlative effectiveness of the three powers [the power of the Law, the power of the Buddha, and the power of faith]. [Hence the benefits are called lotus.]
“The sixth is called the perfection of all the various teachings because the lotus of original enlightenment, which represents the Buddhas’ inner enlightenment, is adorned with all teachings and is lacking or deficient in nothing. [Hence all the various teachings are called lotus.]
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 11689
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:21 am
Queequeg wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:07 am Reword that question - as a living being, is it ok to seek advice about life from others?

Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
Interesting.
Isn't "all you need" also the claim of vajrayana and budhism itself?

I'm curious as I dont know the answer. how would vajrayana lama, and gurus take a student who Also wanted to practice Nichiren?
Many would have no problem with it. I actually know a number of SGI people and Pureland people who became Vajrayana practitioners and were never discouraged from their previous practice. Minus a few orthodox types, plenty of Vajrayana lamas tend to be pretty hands off with that kind of thing, in my experience. Most of my teachers also encouraged my interest in Zen, rather than discouraging it, or were neutral.

There's a -huge- variety of types of teachers in Vajrayana though, you can find Lamas saying the exact opposite of eachother all the time.

As far as it being "all you need"..again that's hard to answer, because Vajrayana is literally 1000's of complex practices, as well as some simple and minimal ones, it's not a single practice approach at all. It is typically not sectarian in the same way as other vehicles though. Where it is often sectarian tends to be in the area of philosophical tenets and insisting on certain types of praxis. It is triumphalist too of course, but no moreso than any other vehicle in my opinion.

So in short, the answer to your frist question is basically "no"..particularly because Vajrayana is acknowledged as not being for everyone in the first place. It's what people with the karma for it need, and what people without that karma don't need.

I don't know if the OP cares about what non-Nichiren folk would say here, but honestly there are good arguments for only sticking to one practice, especially if it is disturbing your practice to listen to other teachings. That said, I think that people need narrow and wider paths in Dharma depending on their dispositions. There is nothing wrong with narrow when it is what benefits the most.

I always wonder with these questions, does the culture of Nichiren permit you to simply ask a teacher what they think? I would take the opinion of a teacher who I deeply trusted over anyone on a forum, regardless of their grasp of doctrine.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:51 am I always wonder with these questions, does the culture of Nichiren permit you to simply ask a teacher what they think? I would take the opinion of a teacher who I deeply trusted over anyone on a forum, regardless of their grasp of doctrine.
I have intense conversations with my teacher. His provisional background is the diametric opposite of mine. To the point that if we only had that aspect compatibility would be tough.

However the respect and gratitude that we have for each other through these teachings we we speak it is as if the benefits of his perspective are mine and mine his without having to experience them.

One of the biggest things I noticed which is easy to share is he is very much a true teaching, no mind to the provisional at all. Meanwhile my life has been steeped in provision. I think it underlines an important function for him and I in this relationship.

He was very clear years ago that dialog behind closed doors was not propagation but conversation in open groups should be treated as such.

Seems to have a great regard of respect for the indoctrinated mind
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3363
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Minobu »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:51 am but honestly there are good arguments for only sticking to one practice, especially if it is disturbing your practice to listen to other teachings.
This is something i have struggled with and Johnny's quote right here...makes it all clear...i could go on but that ...that is it...

Now I think it has been said here by another and i have to agree...The problem in the new surge of Nichiren ismS ...non study of other Buddhist doctrines is an edict...they give this as to the reason
Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:47 am That depends on sect and school

For Nichiren shoshu true buddhism, it encompasses everything you need to attain Buddhahood in this life

All other teachings are provisional. Mixing different schools or paths will only lead to confusion.

As for other school or sect teachings others will Post their position which differs.

.
...which is weird cause Nichiren thirsted for knowledge...too much don't need to know anything in shoshu. and Gakki.. ...why ...is it a control thing?...

French Canadians were purposely held back in education in order to keep them a working class...make that a below working class ...
The roman Catholic church and the French aristocracy kept the education standards well below the average North american High school....thats like early last century and those days are now forgotten ...but they were held back ...the church reason was the more educated the more atheist...and the aristocracy wanted to use the cheap uneducated labour...

same with Nichiren...why keep everyone ignorant when Nichiren would be more of learn it all kind of guy..

always be warey of people who tell you only to study their dogma...especially if there is a hint their dogma is different than the Original.
User avatar
Shotenzenjin
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:23 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:51 am
Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:21 am
Queequeg wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:07 am Reword that question - as a living being, is it ok to seek advice about life from others?

Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
Interesting.
Isn't "all you need" also the claim of vajrayana and budhism itself?

I'm curious as I dont know the answer. how would vajrayana lama, and gurus take a student who Also wanted to practice Nichiren?
Many would have no problem with it. I actually know a number of SGI people and Pureland people who became Vajrayana practitioners and were never discouraged from their previous practice. Minus a few orthodox types, plenty of Vajrayana lamas tend to be pretty hands off with that kind of thing, in my experience. Most of my teachers also encouraged my interest in Zen, rather than discouraging it, or were neutral.

There's a -huge- variety of types of teachers in Vajrayana though, you can find Lamas saying the exact opposite of eachother all the time.

As far as it being "all you need"..again that's hard to answer, because Vajrayana is literally 1000's of complex practices, as well as some simple and minimal ones, it's not a single practice approach at all. It is typically not sectarian in the same way as other vehicles though. Where it is often sectarian tends to be in the area of philosophical tenets and insisting on certain types of praxis. It is triumphalist too of course, but no moreso than any other vehicle in my opinion.

So in short, the answer to your frist question is basically "no"..particularly because Vajrayana is acknowledged as not being for everyone in the first place. It's what people with the karma for it need, and what people without that karma don't need.

I don't know if the OP cares about what non-Nichiren folk would say here, but honestly there are good arguments for only sticking to one practice, especially if it is disturbing your practice to listen to other teachings. That said, I think that people need narrow and wider paths in Dharma depending on their dispositions. There is nothing wrong with narrow when it is what benefits the most.

I always wonder with these questions, does the culture of Nichiren permit you to simply ask a teacher what they think? I would take the opinion of a teacher who I deeply trusted over anyone on a forum, regardless of their grasp of doctrine.
Thank you for such a good reply Johnny
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

Minobu wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:53 am
Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:47 am That depends on sect and school

For Nichiren shoshu true buddhism, it encompasses everything you need to attain Buddhahood in this life

All other teachings are provisional. Mixing different schools or paths will only lead to confusion.

As for other school or sect teachings others will Post their position which differs.

.
...which is weird cause Nichiren thirsted for knowledge...too much don't need to know anything in shoshu. and Gakki.. ...why ...is it a control thing?...

French Canadians were purposely held back in education in order to keep them a working class...make that a below working class ...
The roman Catholic church and the French aristocracy kept the education standards well below the average North american High school....thats like early last century and those days are now forgotten ...but they were held back ...the church reason was the more educated the more atheist...and the aristocracy wanted to use the cheap uneducated labour...

same with Nichiren...why keep everyone ignorant when Nichiren would be more of learn it all kind of guy..

always be warey of people who tell you only to study their dogma...especially if there is a hint their dogma is different than the Original.

I have a take on this. I think for most people who are learning about buddhism the first time anything less direct loses the ability to develop good practice.

I spent months to years considering some of these things. Sometimes by choice and sometimes because I couldn't get in touch with my teacher.

I came to the conclusion that if my teacher did not spend 45 years as focused as he was I would never have known this teaching.

If I didn't spend the time I did trying to understand provision in between I would not be prepared to understand his position or my own.

We both needed to function as is for my benefit of leaning this teaching and his benefit of sharing it.

It is one of the reasons I really feel it so important to work from a point of commonality and respect among us.

Almost like a transformer (I know its a bit cliche) the lotus of our individual lives reflects the lotus of lives as sentient beings. Both individual and both same but neither individual and neither same or something to that effect.

:anjali:
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3363
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Minobu »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:02 am
Minobu wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:53 am
Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:47 am That depends on sect and school

For Nichiren shoshu true buddhism, it encompasses everything you need to attain Buddhahood in this life

All other teachings are provisional. Mixing different schools or paths will only lead to confusion.

As for other school or sect teachings others will Post their position which differs.

.
...which is weird cause Nichiren thirsted for knowledge...too much don't need to know anything in shoshu. and Gakki.. ...why ...is it a control thing?...

French Canadians were purposely held back in education in order to keep them a working class...make that a below working class ...
The roman Catholic church and the French aristocracy kept the education standards well below the average North american High school....thats like early last century and those days are now forgotten ...but they were held back ...the church reason was the more educated the more atheist...and the aristocracy wanted to use the cheap uneducated labour...

same with Nichiren...why keep everyone ignorant when Nichiren would be more of learn it all kind of guy..

always be warey of people who tell you only to study their dogma...especially if there is a hint their dogma is different than the Original.

I have a take on this. I think for most people who are learning about buddhism the first time anything less direct loses the ability to develop good practice.

I spent months to years considering some of these things. Sometimes by choice and sometimes because I couldn't get in touch with my teacher.

I came to the conclusion that if my teacher did not spend 45 years as focused as he was I would never have known this teaching.

If I didn't spend the time I did trying to understand provision in between I would not be prepared to understand his position or my own.

We both needed to function as is for my benefit of leaning this teaching and his benefit of sharing it.

It is one of the reasons I really feel it so important to work from a point of commonality and respect among us.

Almost like a transformer (I know its a bit cliche) the lotus of our individual lives reflects the lotus of lives as sentient beings. Both individual and both same but neither individual and neither same or something to that effect.

:anjali:
so are you going to address my post ?

that being learning as much of other Buddhist schools is the right and best thing for you to do ?
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

I really prefer to leave it open. Nichiren encouraged learning everything. Of course it becomes a impossible proposition. I think the meaning that is meant to be derived is that it is going to unfold according to cause, capacity and condition. In fact I think this is simply what has happened, is happening and will happen in the future. It will be varied and personal for all of us. If we deviate in the process or make mistakes this is natural. This has happened, is happening and will happen in the future.

That is the point about buddhism and ordinary beings being the same. Our individual lives as they have manifest to this point is our own individual path. Nichiren doesn't teach from the perspective of this path, he teaches from the perspective of buddahood as it pertains to this path. That is our own individual lives.

Thus the golden words of the world honored one, all buddhas are enlighten by this sutra. That is our lives is the cause and provision for the true aspect. Our lives as they are. Twists, turns, straight paths and all things in between.

Reminds me of something I have read here. To paraphrase Even the butchers and prostitutes are nothing but total bliss.
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

If I understand Nichiren he expected families and local provinces to fulfill the intimacy of provincal teachings so he didn't want to identify them by name because it would cause rivalry. I think perhaps the need still stands today.

I might be wrong. :shrug:
narhwal90
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by narhwal90 »

I've found there is no fundamental incompatibility from a Zen standpoint, I think the only limitations arise from how strongly ideas and expectations are grasped. When in the zen sangha meetings I try to keep the Nichiren references tangential- raised when relevant, and the reverse in Nichiren-land. I've had a few conversations with the roshi about Nichiren in contrast with Zen, part of developing rapport. It seems straightforward to develop both a Zen practice and a Nichiren practice according to the respective norms. As to provisional vs ultimate perhaps the right move is to make up your own mind if the question is important to you.

"right" vs "best" seems pretty hard to define, what is the metric?

I like JD's point; if seeking another tradition undermines your Nichiren practice then that might be a good reason to not continue.
User avatar
_johnarundel_
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:00 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Hi!

There is nothing wrong with having knowledge. But understand that different schools can view the teachings of the Buddha differently, and have different classifications of teachings.

The purpose of the study is to develop our faith and help our practice. If reading and studying other school's doctrines impedes our practice of the Daishonin's Buddhism, then it is obviousoly not good. However, if you just want a broader understadning of Buddhism or just want to know specifics of other schools, then it's obviously fine.

But it is always good to remember that Nichiren Daishonin taught faith first, practice second, and study third. Deep faith in the Gohonzon of the Three Great Secret Laws and the practice of chanting Daimoku is essential for attaining Buddhahood in the age of the Latter Day of the Law. Thus, it is important that our study must help inform and deepen our faith and practice.

I will leave Nikko Shonin's guidance on this matter

Nikko Shonin teaches in his "Twenty-Six Admonitions" ("Nikko yuikai okimon")
Article 10: Unless you have a thorough understanding of, and firm faith in, the teachings [of Nichiren Daishonin], you should not study T'ien-t'ai's doctrines.

Article 11: Followers of this school should engrave the teachings of the Gosho in their lives and thereby inherit the ultimate principles expounded by the master. Then, if they have any leisure time, they should inquire into the doctrine of the T'ien-t'ai school.

(Gosho Zenshu, p. 1619)
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
Jingtoo2
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:18 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Jingtoo2 »

With reference to the point raised about the Vajrayana and Pureland there are Vajrayana people who practice Pureland almost exclusively, although this is almost always confined to Asian students and is hardly practised in European Vajrayana circles.

My teacher taught that all forms of Buddhist practice are provisional. They are all skillful means. It’s a question of finding your best fit.
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

Nichiren has very specific reasons for his apocalyptic warnings. Nichiren reveals that MINIMALLY it is unwise to compare these teachings with others without basis. Without bringing the concept of superior into the mix it is important to realize they are not all identical. Even if one where to regard them as equal because they are all the golden words of the world honored one they are not identical. Yet even under that basis there are differences. So even under the basis of equal it is clear this does not mean that they are the same.

The conundrum in understanding this from Nichiren's perspective. Nichiren's classification was based on the dissemination through his own mastery of the other traditions. So for one to make the same case from these teachings one requires a level of mastery as a basis. Even then this is still subjective and to the aspects of a person's life namely cause, conditions and capacity.

However Nichiren made this possible through daimoku. The hardest aspect of this teaching for anyone to believe but is the absolute truth is that the Lotus Sutra and more importantly the daimoku and gohonzon is that they aren't "just words". They are, in and of themselves, performing the function of the buddha as well.

Nichren taught this and endowed these teachings with functions. It can't be realized through provisional teachings but those provisional teachings are preparatory in regards to the lotus sutra as they were during the first 40 years after the buddhas enlightenment and as they were now. They don't in and of themselves perform these functions. They simply point. Nichiren saying as much is just words and one can understand it just as words but this does not mean function is not present or that they don't function. If they display the true aspect it can only be understood between buddhas so it won't be realized or recognized in one's cognition even though it is concurring.

So for me the question becomes whose wisdom do I trust? My own or that of Nichiren Daishonin? Apparently I have made my own choice. The point is these teachings are meant to help discriminate before the wherewithal to do so is developed. Without absolute trust and faith in Nichiren's teachings they can't be made a basis. I believe this is one of the points Nichiren is making.
Although Great Concentration and Insight quotes passages from various sutras preached prior to the Lotus Sutra and from the sacred texts of the non-Buddhist teachings, it is not espousing the ideas contained in these earlier sutras or non-Buddhist texts. It borrows passages from these texts but at the same time rejects the principles taught therein. [As Miao-lo says], “The setting is that of the earlier texts, but the wisdom is invariably that set forth in the perfect teaching.”7 That is, although there are quotations from various sutras such as the Questions of Manjushrī, the Great Correct and Equal Dhāranīs, or the Invocation of Perceiver of the World’s Sounds, and the four forms of meditation are discussed, the principles set forth therein are invariably those of the Lotus Sutra. . [As Miao-lo says], “Various texts from here and there are quoted to make up a single composition, but the true meaning of the work in the end refers solely to the two sutras [the Lotus Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra].”8

Great Concentration and Insight consists of ten chapters entitled “Overall Meaning,” “Explaining Terminology,” “Characteristics of the Essence,” “Encompassing the Doctrines,” “Partial and Perfect,” “Preparatory Practices,” “Correct Meditation,” “Effect and Reward,” “Setting Forth Teachings,” and “Pointing Out the Goal.”

[As Great Concentration and Insight says] the first six chapters are based on the sutras. These six chapters, from “Overall Meaning” through “Preparatory Practices,” take up the first four volumes of the work. The wonderful understanding described therein sets forth the doctrine of the Lotus Sutra’s theoretical teaching.

The seventh chapter, “Correct Meditation,” establishes the correct practice based on the wonderful understanding, and deals with the ten objects and ten meditations, the practice of the essential teaching. The exposition of the doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life begins with this chapter.

This doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life is not to be found in the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra, much less in any of the sutras preached prior to the Lotus. Although this doctrine derives from the ten factors, which represent the true aspect of all phenomena, as set forth in the concise replacement of the three vehicles with the one vehicle [in the “Expedient Means” chapter of the Lotus Sutra], its meaning is made clear only in the essential teaching.

In the case of the sutras preached before the Lotus, one uses the theoretical teaching to explain the meaning of the words. And in the case of the theoretical teaching, one uses the essential teaching to explain the meaning of the words. Only in the case of the essential teaching does one use the actual words themselves to explain the meaning.

There are many different kinds of p.379practices in the perfect teaching. Counting grains of sand and contemplating the great ocean are among them,9 as of course are the practice of reciting the sutras that preceded the Lotus and intoning the names of Amida Buddha and the other Buddhas.

These, however, are practices to be carried out on particular occasions or at particular times. The true perfect teaching practice is to keep the mouth constantly reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, whatever the occasion, and to keep the mind fixed on the meditation on the three thousand realms in a single moment of life. This is the practice and understanding of persons of wisdom. For the ordinary lay believers of Japan, however, it is sufficient if they concentrate solely on the recitation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

The name will invariably invoke all the blessings of the thing itself. It has been said that there are seventeen names for the Lotus Sutra,10 but these are names that are common to other writings as well. The particular name of the sutra, that by which all the Buddhas of the three existences of past, present, and future invoke it, is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

Amida, Shakyamuni, and all the other Buddhas, when they were creating the cause for the attainment of enlightenment, invariably fixed their minds on the practice of concentration and insight, and with their mouths they invariably recited Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo = One dedicates themselves to the lotus of the wonderful law - which is inclusive of all buddhist practices via the buddha of the three times and ten directions. Even though it may seem just a mental designation the realms themselves could be reduced to a simple product of mind. However people aren't born and choose to abide in samsara out of enlightened volition. Thus mental declarations designations can be understood as also evoking function. That is they are cause for effect.
The ninety-six non-Buddhist schools derived from the rules of conduct laid down by the monk Buddha Wisdom,11 and the slanders against the Lotus Sutra in Japan began when wide acceptance was given to the view that the perfect teaching of the Lotus Sutra and that of the pre-Lotus sutras are identical. What a sad day that was!

The non-Buddhists declared that this world is characterized by eternity, happiness, self, and purity, but the Buddha appeared in the world to proclaim that it is in fact characterized by suffering, non-substantiality, impermanence, and non-self. The persons of the two vehicles, voice-hearers and cause-awakened ones, then became unduly attached to the concept of non-substantiality and failed to advance to an understanding of the great vehicle, or Mahayana, teachings, and so the Buddha admonished them by declaring that the five cardinal sins too are the seeds of Buddhahood, that the countless dusts and troubles of earthly desires are also the seeds of the Thus Come One, warning them that the “good doctrine” of the two vehicles would never lead to the attainment of Buddhahood.

The concepts of eternity, happiness, p.380self, and purity as expounded by the non-Buddhists were erroneous, but there was nothing wrong with these terms themselves. However, the Buddha condemned these terms to show that their concepts were wrong. [In Mahayana] evil too can constitute the seed that leads to Buddhahood, and of course good can do so as well. However, when it came to the persons of the two vehicles, though the Buddha granted that they were capable of evil, he would not grant that they were capable of good.12

The Nembutsu that is practiced in the world today is a Nembutsu that will destroy the Lotus Sutra throughout this country. Though it may be a “good” practice, and one that is theoretically sound, one should condemn its name.

This is because the Buddhist teachings should conform to what is suitable for the particular country. In India, there were states wholly devoted to the Hinayana teachings, states wholly devoted to the Mahayana teachings, and states in which both Hinayana and Mahayana were pursued. The teachings differed according to the state. And China is the same in nature.

But Japan is a country suitable only for the Mahayana teachings, and among these, the teaching of the one vehicle [of the Lotus Sutra]. Even the teachings of the three Mahayana schools, the Flower Garland
Without basis classifications are subjective and humanity will not know that these teachings come from the same source and cannot be led to emancipation because of perceived differences that arise when teachings are not understood as being derived from the same source.

The ultimate source is the primordial buddha. This is where of course more controversy arises if one tries to limit the concept to any one given name or tradition. I like to refer the to Lotus itself when it says all buddha are enlightened by this sutra. if I understand it correctly this means they understand this through the auspices that represents the lotus that is their own life. If I look at it from Nichiren's measure everyone in the line of succession from Shakyamuni to Nichiren himself is recognized and honored.

Does this mean one should do the same from the perspective of one's own life according to the paths one knows?

"What shall we say, shall we call it by a name. As well to count the angels dancing on a pin "
tkp67
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by tkp67 »

It is as if Nichiren is saying that unless buddhists of different traditions, causes, capacities and conditions understand that ultimately they share the same basis they will continue to doubt the true teaching and never leave the provisional path instead they will be defined by it.

Since both provision and the true need to be realized for buddha hood both provisional and true need to be understood without bias to either one or the other in our own lives and as we view it in the lives of others.

Without none of the various individual perspectives express the qualities of the world honored one's complete enlightenment such as equanimity.

Note the designation world honored one. Could that be translated as the basis we should all look to when evaluating province as the world designates all provinces. Could this be one reason Nichiren makes it of such importance to point to the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni?
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11227
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Is it ok as a Nichiren Buddhist to seek Buddhist advice about life from other schools (Tibetan, etc)?

Post by Queequeg »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:21 am
Queequeg wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:07 am Reword that question - as a living being, is it ok to seek advice about life from others?

Beware of anyone who says they're all you need.

Use your judgment. Make inquiries and judge answers for yourself. Asking questions and getting answers doesn't require commitment. If the person answering demands such compliance, consider it a red flag.

Safeguard the truth; find out for yourself:
https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
Interesting.
Isn't "all you need" also the claim of vajrayana and budhism itself?

I'm curious as I dont know the answer. how would vajrayana lama, and gurus take a student who Also wanted to practice Nichiren?
JD answered on Vajrayana.

As for Buddhism in general - see the Canki Sutta that I linked above.

Anyway, my answer was not addressed to the true believers. It was addressed to those who might be struggling under the spell of the true believers. The ground will not split open and swallow you alive into avici just for earnestly following your curiosity about life.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”