How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

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bcol01
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How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by bcol01 »

I don't want to be political here, but piggy-backing off of the recent Presidential debate had me wondering; how important is right speech in the Nichiren context? Shouldn't we be mindful of how we engage with others and how we speak? I would love your take on this. This isn't necessarily about the debate, it's just what prompted me to ask this question, since divisive speech seems to be so prevalent now more than ever. I'd love your take!
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:33 pm I don't want to be political here, but piggy-backing off of the recent Presidential debate had me wondering; how important is right speech in the Nichiren context? Shouldn't we be mindful of how we engage with others and how we speak? I would love your take on this. This isn't necessarily about the debate, it's just what prompted me to ask this question, since divisive speech seems to be so prevalent now more than ever. I'd love your take!
well i for one suffer from foot on type disease.

the problem is when you state something from one school and it completely goes against the teaching of the other schools of Nichiren , like for instance when discussing a gosho, it causes angst ..all levels of angst on both sides.

the discussion i just found in the Nichiren shoshu section from google on honbutsu ...is a prime example of a discussion done properly. no arguments just facts.

we can all learn from reading that one top to bottom.
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

you do end up creating karma when you start with the name calling...lucky for me my entity is not constipated and i rid myself immediately of the karma through suffering ..i mentioned this somewhere where recently i saw myself feel like i needed to be hospitalized it was so bad...
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:33 pm I don't want to be political here, but piggy-backing off of the recent Presidential debate had me wondering; how important is right speech in the Nichiren context? Shouldn't we be mindful of how we engage with others and how we speak? I would love your take on this. This isn't necessarily about the debate, it's just what prompted me to ask this question, since divisive speech seems to be so prevalent now more than ever. I'd love your take!
well i for one suffer from foot on type disease.

the problem is when you state something from one school and it completely goes against the teaching of the other schools of Nichiren , like for instance when discussing a gosho, it causes angst ..all levels of angst on both sides.

the discussion i just found in the Nichiren shoshu section from google on honbutsu ...is a prime example of a discussion done properly. no arguments just facts.

we can all learn from reading that one top to bottom.
Your obsession with us is fascinating. Ii give you that. Do we keep you up at night too?

that thread while a good one is more interpretation then what you claim.

Now your interpretation is far different then others but it's still an interpretation nonetheless

Anyway......
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:30 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:33 pm I don't want to be political here, but piggy-backing off of the recent Presidential debate had me wondering; how important is right speech in the Nichiren context? Shouldn't we be mindful of how we engage with others and how we speak? I would love your take on this. This isn't necessarily about the debate, it's just what prompted me to ask this question, since divisive speech seems to be so prevalent now more than ever. I'd love your take!
well i for one suffer from foot on type disease.

the problem is when you state something from one school and it completely goes against the teaching of the other schools of Nichiren , like for instance when discussing a gosho, it causes angst ..all levels of angst on both sides.

the discussion i just found in the Nichiren shoshu section from google on honbutsu ...is a prime example of a discussion done properly. no arguments just facts.

we can all learn from reading that one top to bottom.
Your obsession with us is fascinating. Ii give you that. Do we keep you up at night too?

that thread while a good one is more interpretation then what you claim.

Now your interpretation is far different then others but it's still an interpretation nonetheless

Anyway......
You are the one obsessed with me.
I used the thread as an example how two opposing views can be discussed without argument.
You make yourself look nuts and it isn’t helping in the efforts to have civilized discussion instead of this rut you won’t let go of.
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:02 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:30 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
well i for one suffer from foot on type disease.

the problem is when you state something from one school and it completely goes against the teaching of the other schools of Nichiren , like for instance when discussing a gosho, it causes angst ..all levels of angst on both sides.

the discussion i just found in the Nichiren shoshu section from google on honbutsu ...is a prime example of a discussion done properly. no arguments just facts.

we can all learn from reading that one top to bottom.
Your obsession with us is fascinating. Ii give you that. Do we keep you up at night too?

that thread while a good one is more interpretation then what you claim.

Now your interpretation is far different then others but it's still an interpretation nonetheless

Anyway......
You are the one obsessed with me.
I used the thread as an example how two opposing views can be discussed without argument.
You make yourself look nuts and it isn’t helping in the efforts to have civilized discussion instead of this rut you won’t let go of.
Mention us see us minobu.
It's only fair.

As for obsession it's rather clear given the amount of posts you make about a school you dont belong too.

So the question is why concern yourself so much with us?

Anyway...
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:06 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:02 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:30 pm

Your obsession with us is fascinating. Ii give you that. Do we keep you up at night too?

that thread while a good one is more interpretation then what you claim.

Now your interpretation is far different then others but it's still an interpretation nonetheless

Anyway......
You are the one obsessed with me.
I used the thread as an example how two opposing views can be discussed without argument.
You make yourself look nuts and it isn’t helping in the efforts to have civilized discussion instead of this rut you won’t let go of.
Mention us see us minobu.
It's only fair.

As for obsession it's rather clear given the amount of posts you make about a school you dont belong too.

So the question is why concern yourself so much with us?

Anyway...
the thread is beyound surreal...

what do you think my motivation in my respond to the Op was or is ?
why do you think i came to post something about what your concerned i am right now..?


do you know how many people actually respond in Nichiren ...Do you have any idea that only at mpst 12 people actually read this...the rest are mistakes...


john and i were pm about honbutsu...and the honbutsu explaination came up for me today on google ...cause i forgot what the terms mean...for they are meaningless to me in the sense i don't care if i know them.........so then all the nightmare about that and this long standing member here bcol01creates a thread....i know bcol01 and this is an attempt to help is all...you challenge me with your pety understanding ....bah hum bug...

so the google search brought up Q's stuff on top of google page...i read it ...posted in it after reasding the whole thread...and then used it when bcol01 comes to our aid...with down in the trenches stuff...

shame on you SZ ....stop ..please stop...your obsession that sees me as some Babba Yagga is an illusion born of hatred in you...one of the ten worlds ...or at least one of the ten worlds that sounds like hatred...
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:39 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:06 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:02 pm
You are the one obsessed with me.
I used the thread as an example how two opposing views can be discussed without argument.
You make yourself look nuts and it isn’t helping in the efforts to have civilized discussion instead of this rut you won’t let go of.
Mention us see us minobu.
It's only fair.

As for obsession it's rather clear given the amount of posts you make about a school you dont belong too.

So the question is why concern yourself so much with us?

Anyway...
the thread is beyound surreal...

what do you think my motivation in my respond to the Op was or is ?
why do you think i came to post something about what your concerned i am right now..?


do you know how many people actually respond in Nichiren ...Do you have any idea that only at mpst 12 people actually read this...the rest are mistakes...


john and i were pm about honbutsu...and the honbutsu explaination came up for me today on google ...cause i forgot what the terms mean...for they are meaningless to me in the sense i don't care if i know them.........so then all the nightmare about that and this long standing member here bcol01creates a thread....i know bcol01 and this is an attempt to help is all...you challenge me with your pety understanding ....bah hum bug...

so the google search brought up Q's stuff on top of google page...i read it ...posted in it after reasding the whole thread...and then used it when bcol01 comes to our aid...with down in the trenches stuff...

shame on you SZ ....stop ..please stop...your obsession that sees me as some Babba Yagga is an illusion born of hatred in you...one of the ten worlds ...or at least one of the ten worlds that sounds like hatred...
Sheesh calm down minobu it's just a thread on the internet. Don't get so upright.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

anyway it was actual quite a cool thing...

for past couple of days been mulling over honbetsu...i don't even know these terms anymore...so i google it and DW comes up...but it was the way it is discussed with class....John has this attribute...He ooozes class online ...and we need that in the nichiren section...

so like i see his post shobutsu and honbutsu..and google it before gongyo and i just go o wow...all that nightmare...all the real nichiren nightmare stuff...aired out recently.....and then bcol01 makes this thread...i could not resist..just showing the difference,,

it can be like zen here at times...sometimes it's the stick and others it's the rhyme.
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:43 am anyway it was actual quite a cool thing...

for past couple of days been mulling over honbetsu...i don't even know these terms anymore...so i google it and DW comes up...but it was the way it is discussed with class....John has this attribute...He ooozes class online ...and we need that in the nichiren section...

so like i see his post shobutsu and honbutsu..and google it before gongyo and i just go o wow...all that nightmare...all the real nichiren nightmare stuff...aired out recently.....and then bcol01 makes this thread...i could not resist..just showing the difference,,

it can be like zen here at times...sometimes it's the stick and others it's the rhyme.
Alright..
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
bcol01
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by bcol01 »

With all due respect, can we please stick to the OP?
Shotenzenjin wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:14 am
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:39 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:06 pm

Mention us see us minobu.
It's only fair.

As for obsession it's rather clear given the amount of posts you make about a school you dont belong too.

So the question is why concern yourself so much with us?

Anyway...
the thread is beyound surreal...

what do you think my motivation in my respond to the Op was or is ?
why do you think i came to post something about what your concerned i am right now..?


do you know how many people actually respond in Nichiren ...Do you have any idea that only at mpst 12 people actually read this...the rest are mistakes...


john and i were pm about honbutsu...and the honbutsu explaination came up for me today on google ...cause i forgot what the terms mean...for they are meaningless to me in the sense i don't care if i know them.........so then all the nightmare about that and this long standing member here bcol01creates a thread....i know bcol01 and this is an attempt to help is all...you challenge me with your pety understanding ....bah hum bug...

so the google search brought up Q's stuff on top of google page...i read it ...posted in it after reasding the whole thread...and then used it when bcol01 comes to our aid...with down in the trenches stuff...

shame on you SZ ....stop ..please stop...your obsession that sees me as some Babba Yagga is an illusion born of hatred in you...one of the ten worlds ...or at least one of the ten worlds that sounds like hatred...
Sheesh calm down minobu it's just a thread on the internet. Don't get so upright.
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

so where did it go off the rails...i thought i gave some input in my first post..
all karma is based on right speech right action right thought...
it's weird how this section the past few weeks..turned into the same crap biden and trump did...it's all over every talk show and news...it is a very vital thing to bring to a head ...it reflects the riots in the streets, black lives matter, cops killing children....it all comes down to not respecting one another..and here this thread is like art resembling life... read the thread...all these arguments, especially what happened on television last night...is people thinking that everything everyone else says or does is to do with them..it's got to be related to them...the true definition of paranoia ..
megla mania...in politics trump has brought it all down to such a level ...but then again Biden lost the farm too...so what does that say about all of american politics...the dems are just as crazy...they could have done good with Bernie and Warren...instead they go for this decrepit old guy who lost his mind somewhere...

so yeah your thread is art imitating life...
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:09 am With all due respect, can we please stick to the OP?
Shotenzenjin wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:14 am
Minobu wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:39 pm
the thread is beyound surreal...

what do you think my motivation in my respond to the Op was or is ?
why do you think i came to post something about what your concerned i am right now..?


do you know how many people actually respond in Nichiren ...Do you have any idea that only at mpst 12 people actually read this...the rest are mistakes...


john and i were pm about honbutsu...and the honbutsu explaination came up for me today on google ...cause i forgot what the terms mean...for they are meaningless to me in the sense i don't care if i know them.........so then all the nightmare about that and this long standing member here bcol01creates a thread....i know bcol01 and this is an attempt to help is all...you challenge me with your pety understanding ....bah hum bug...

so the google search brought up Q's stuff on top of google page...i read it ...posted in it after reasding the whole thread...and then used it when bcol01 comes to our aid...with down in the trenches stuff...

shame on you SZ ....stop ..please stop...your obsession that sees me as some Babba Yagga is an illusion born of hatred in you...one of the ten worlds ...or at least one of the ten worlds that sounds like hatred...
Sheesh calm down minobu it's just a thread on the internet. Don't get so upright.
That's one way to look at sure.

Another way is when an individual mentions another's religion or school of it. As you did in this thread. Then It's only natural that a member of such would have input on that given thread or post which references his faith. That's only fair.

Anyway.

Let's move along..
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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_johnarundel_
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Hi!

I think right speech and kindness in the way one speaks to others is a very fundamental aspect to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.

Everything Nichiren Daishonin taught and did derived from deep compassion and kindness.

This question reminds me of Bodhisattva Fukyo, who is mentioned in the 20th Chapter of the Lotus Sutra. I have mentioned him here before. Fukyo or Jofukyo means "never disparaging" or "never despise." Bodhisattva Fukyo bowed in reverence to everyone he met, as he believed them all to be potential Buddhas. Many of these people, who were quite arrogant, could not understood Bodhisattva Fukyo and mocked and abused him. Despite this, he treated everyone with kindness and respect no matter what, staying true to the principle that every single one of use can attain Buddhahood. Nichiren Daishonin often identified himself with this particular Bodhisattva, as he himself encountered persecution for teaching the true Law to save all mankind in Mappo.

When we encounter others, our views on politics and other hot button issues will invariably differ. But one thing we all have in common is that we have the Buddha-nature inherent in our lives, and by practicing the mystic Law, we can attain enlightenment.

Thus, we should always be kind to anyone we meet, and this is obviously reflected in the way we speak to them.


https://www.nst.org/articles/tales-from ... tva-fukyo/
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
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Minobu
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by Minobu »

Amen to that brother
It’s quite possible that we all have some form of bodhisattva nature or one of the bodhisttva’s nature’s that are underlying our being.

And see I told ya John has class.

SZ I can’t help if I declare my bent as you declare yours.
I don’t go at you personally ever time you mention something about your sect. This thread is ruined due to your vendetta towards me.
I’ve pointed out that I had this epiphany that the different sects are necessary to accommodate different needs of people. And this Nichiren section downstairs is always been an open discussion mainly with Nichiren people. Others pop in but are not of the body.

I look at DW as a true place where dharma is teaching. I get a lil mystical about it at times. And can see different members inspired to write that sparks others into thinking.
It’s not just a forum SZ
bcol01
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by bcol01 »

Thank you for your input. I have not read Chapter 20. In fact, I haven't read much of the Lotus Sutra at all...yet. From what I have heard about Nichiren, he did seem to respect others, even if they acted arrogant, etc, because as you mentioned, he realized that everyone wihout exception had the Buddha nature, so they had potential to realize it and therefore, deserved compassion. Thanks again :) nmrk friend!

_johnarundel_ wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:41 am Hi!

I think right speech and kindness in the way one speaks to others is a very fundamental aspect to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.

Everything Nichiren Daishonin taught and did derived from deep compassion and kindness.

This question reminds me of Bodhisattva Fukyo, who is mentioned in the 20th Chapter of the Lotus Sutra. I have mentioned him here before. Fukyo or Jofukyo means "never disparaging" or "never despise." Bodhisattva Fukyo bowed in reverence to everyone he met, as he believed them all to be potential Buddhas. Many of these people, who were quite arrogant, could not understood Bodhisattva Fukyo and mocked and abused him. Despite this, he treated everyone with kindness and respect no matter what, staying true to the principle that every single one of use can attain Buddhahood. Nichiren Daishonin often identified himself with this particular Bodhisattva, as he himself encountered persecution for teaching the true Law to save all mankind in Mappo.

When we encounter others, our views on politics and other hot button issues will invariably differ. But one thing we all have in common is that we have the Buddha-nature inherent in our lives, and by practicing the mystic Law, we can attain enlightenment.

Thus, we should always be kind to anyone we meet, and this is obviously reflected in the way we speak to them.


https://www.nst.org/articles/tales-from ... tva-fukyo/
tkp67
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by tkp67 »

Something to keep in mind.

This disdain we have for the actions of others is a reflection of the judgement we reserve for ourselves. Compassion for others is a reflection for the compassion we have for ourselves.
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_johnarundel_
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

bcol01 wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:05 pm Thank you for your input. I have not read Chapter 20. In fact, I haven't read much of the Lotus Sutra at all...yet. From what I have heard about Nichiren, he did seem to respect others, even if they acted arrogant, etc, because as you mentioned, he realized that everyone wihout exception had the Buddha nature, so they had potential to realize it and therefore, deserved compassion. Thanks again :) nmrk friend!
Hi!

Yes, you are right.

Devadatta was Shakyamuni Buddha's cousin, who committed three of the five cardinal sins, and fell into the hell of incessant suffering. Even Devadatta was able to attain Buddhahood in the Lotus Sutra. Thus even the most evil men can eventually become Buddhas, as the Buddha nature is inherent in their lives. So, as you said everyone deserves compassion.

Personally, if I am ever dealing with someone I don't like very much or they are behaving rudely towards me, I try my best to keep in mind that they also possess the Buddha-nature within them, and remember how Bodhisattva Fukyo behaved towards people. Becoming angry towards others only causes us to accumulate negative karma, which in turn becomes obstacles to our own enlightenment and prevents us from being goods examples as practitioners of the Daishonin's Buddhism.

As you said, everyone deserves compassion. And this is key to practicing and propagating the Law in Mappo.


Glad we had the oppurtunity to discuss this. Looking forward to talking more!

Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo :twothumbsup:
Last edited by _johnarundel_ on Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
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_johnarundel_
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Re: How important is compassion and respect when it comes to speech?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Minobu wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:23 pm Amen to that brother
It’s quite possible that we all have some form of bodhisattva nature or one of the bodhisttva’s nature’s that are underlying our being.

And see I told ya John has class.

SZ I can’t help if I declare my bent as you declare yours.
I don’t go at you personally ever time you mention something about your sect. This thread is ruined due to your vendetta towards me.
I’ve pointed out that I had this epiphany that the different sects are necessary to accommodate different needs of people. And this Nichiren section downstairs is always been an open discussion mainly with Nichiren people. Others pop in but are not of the body.

I look at DW as a true place where dharma is teaching. I get a lil mystical about it at times. And can see different members inspired to write that sparks others into thinking.
It’s not just a forum SZ

Thanks Minobu!
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
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