why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

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Minobu
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why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

I think there are two paradigms that could crop up here...one being the Shoshu because it is The True Buddha..

Nichiren Shu would have another paradigm...anyone?

can we discuss both or a third please.

I recall when if first left Shoshu and found Zasep Tulku Rinpoche, my Root Guru I was trying to explain to him what we did.

He said well it doesn't really matter for you were chanting to a Buddha...and i said no due to the whole anti Lord Sakyamuni Buddha thing..

He just looked at me weird and said :

He explained all these Buddhist mantras are names of Buddhas...Om Tare Tuttare Ture Svaha is Buddha Goddess Tara
Om Mani Padme Hum is Buddha Avalokiteshvara and so on...

So is MyoHo RenGe Kyo considered a Buddha ...If anyone knows the Nichiren Shu explanation or even TenDai , please let me know.

Weird thing is I never really thought of MyoHo RenGe Kyo being a Buddha till tonight..is it the Eternal Buddha...yes it is...wow...

there ya go folks watching Minobu's brain at play...


the problem with Primordial Buddha is a what came first the chicken or the egg...Like to become a Buddha one has to be a common mortal who eventually attained Buddhahood...


when the whole Stephen Hawkings thing about time being so long and infinite that it eventually bends upon itself and creates a circle...thus once again you are reading this...So I explained this to Rev Nagasaka a Nichiren ShoShu priest and he said it's similar in Buddhism...his words were exactly and i quote..."In Buddhism there is no beginning and no end . But in the beginning of the beginning"...and went silent except for a look and a slight smile...


does this sound coherent to anyone ...
snippets from the gakki library
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47
All beings and their environments in any of the Ten Worlds are themselves entities of Myoho-renge-kyo.
Question: If so, then is it possible to say that all living beings, such as ourselves, are entities of the Mystic Law in its entirety?

Answer: Of course. The sutra says, “This reality [the true aspect of all phenomena] consists of the appearance, nature . . . and their consistency from beginning to end.”1
The Great Teacher Miao-lo comments on this as follows: “The true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds invariably manifest in life and its environment.”2
The mystic principle that is the essential nature of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of ordinary mortals.


ok so how does en entity produce the above quotes?
like an entity is :

en·ti·ty
/ˈen(t)ədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a thing with distinct and independent existence.



is it to do with the actual translation from Jappanese into english that the word entity is not the correct translation ?

ok i'll leave it there..
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Budai »

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is non-different from the Buddha's Dharmakaya body, and it is the inherent goodness within any being, as soon as that Buddha-Nature is brought out by it's chanting, the road to Enlightenment begins. The Primordial Buddha is inherently Enlightened, and since there are infinite Buddhas, there are infinite inherently Enlightened Buddhas of the same quality. The Primordial Buddha is considered the Source of all this Enlightenment and is present within all of these Buddhas, and He is equal to them, and of course He, and they, and you are Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as well. Any Enlightened being should be considered as the Lotus Sutra, and if one is not fully Enlightened but has Bodhisattva or voice-hearer or simply layfollower with good Metta qualities, the inherent goodness that I mentioned as Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is in them, and it Emanates from the Primordial Buddha. The reason Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the ultimate Mantra to chant is because it contains all of the Buddhas and the entire Mystic Law, and the Entire Lotus Sutra in all it's infinite wisdom and realms. Like I said this is any Buddha as well, and present within anyone with goodness in them, but it is fully actualized in the entirety of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. And in it's chanting and in the Gohonzon the possibilities of who you are and what you can do with such Metta are infinite and endless. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is truly the key to what we are meant to live as, and beyond, so we should never let go of it. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

Also, a reason all Buddhas should be regarded as Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, is that although the Lotus Sutra contains all of the Buddhas, they are to be regarded as of the same and one mind.

I must clear away all doubts and perplexities.
There is no discrepancy in the words of the Buddhas


-The Lotus Sutra, Chapter 2, Expedient Means.
Last edited by Budai on Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by tkp67 »

The fact is that the meditation on three thousand realms in a single moment of life and the method of meditation known as threefold contemplation in a single mind are contained within the five characters Myoho-renge-kyo. And these five characters, Myoho-renge-kyo, are also contained within the single life of each of us. Thus T’ien-t’ai’s commentary states: “This Myoho-renge-kyo represents the depths of the secret storehouse of the original state, the enlightenment attained by the Thus Come Ones of the three existences.”10

When we chant this Myoho-renge-kyo, the Buddha of original enlightenment present in our lives becomes manifest. Our bodies and minds are comparable to the storehouse of the teachings, and the word myō is comparable to the seal [that permits the opening of the storehouse]. Thus the commentary of T’ien-t’ai states: “To reveal the depths of the secret storehouse—this is called myō, or wonderful. To define the proper relationship between the provisional and the true—this is termed hō, or the Law. To point to the original enlightenment attained by the Buddha in the far distant past—this is compared to ren, or lotus. To clarify the perfect way of the p.86non-duality of provisional and true—this is compared to ge, or blossom. The voice carries out the work of the Buddha, and this is called kyō, or sutra.”11

And the commentary also states: “Myō is a term used to praise the Law that is beyond ordinary comprehension. Myō is also the Law of the Ten Worlds and the ten factors, the Law that is both provisional and true.”12

Chanting the daimoku, or title, of the Lotus Sutra is the same as carrying out meditation. Ignorant persons may find this difficult to believe. But the second volume of Great Concentration and Insight by T’ien-t’ai has a passage “regarding recitation and silence” in which the word “recitation” refers to recitation of the Lotus Sutra and “silence” to the practice of meditation or contemplation. And again, in the first volume of his Meaning of the Four Teachings, T’ien-t’ai states: “Not only [are such practices as recitation] not a needless waste of effort, they are essential in enabling one to grasp the principle involved.”

The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai was a reincarnation of the bodhisattva Medicine King, and in his commentaries he discussed the merits of reciting the sutra and those of meditation. To begin with, in his commentaries he defined four guidelines for interpreting the words and phrases of the Lotus Sutra, namely, causes and conditions, correlated teachings, theoretical and essential teachings, and observation of the mind. But persons who do not understand the importance of these four types of interpretation are likely to apply only one type of interpretation, turning all their attention to the way in which the passage relates to the theoretical and essential teachings, or turning all their attention to how it relates to observation of the mind.

In the Lotus Sutra, we find the doctrine directly stated, we find it taught through similes, and we find it taught through an explanation of causes and conditions in the past. In passages where the doctrine is directly stated, the original purpose for which the Buddhas appear in the world is set forth, the direct path by which all living beings can attain Buddhahood. And daimoku represents the cause and condition that permits not only us but all living beings to proceed directly to the place of enlightenment.

Therefore T’ien-t’ai in the first volume of his Profound Meaning states: “All the little practices of goodness are gathered together, and one finds one’s destination in the breadth and magnitude of the one vehicle.”13 By “breadth and magnitude” he means that all living beings without exception shall be guided to this goal.

Although this goal may be set forth as the original purpose for which one person, Shakyamuni, made his appearance in the world, yet all beings in the stage of near-perfect enlightenment and below should look up to it and should have faith in this sutra, the Lotus. For this sutra itself is the original purpose for which the Buddhas appear in the world.
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/180

The Doctrines of Three Thousand Realms
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

Brahma wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:40 am Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is non-different from the Buddha's Dharmakaya body, and it is the inherent goodness within any being, as soon as that Buddha-Nature is brought out by it's chanting, the road to Enlightenment begins. The Primordial Buddha is inherently Enlightened, and since there are infinite Buddhas, there are infinite inherently Enlightened Buddhas of the same quality. The Primordial Buddha is considered the Source of all this Enlightenment and is present within all of these Buddhas, and He is equal to them, and of course He, and they, and you are Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as well. Any Enlightened being should be considered as the Lotus Sutra, and if one is not fully Enlightened but has Bodhisattva or voice-hearer or simply layfollower with good Metta qualities, the inherent goodness that I mentioned as Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is in them, and it Emanates from the Primordial Buddha. The reason Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the ultimate Mantra to chant is because it contains all of the Buddhas and the entire Mystic Law, and the Entire Lotus Sutra in all it's infinite wisdom and realms. Like I said this is any Buddha as well, and present within anyone with goodness in them, but it is fully actualized in the entirety of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. And in it's chanting and in the Gohonzon the possibilities of who you are and what you can do with such Metta are infinite and endless. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is truly the key to what we are meant to live as, and beyond, so we should never let go of it. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

Also, a reason all Buddhas should be regarded as Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, is that although the Lotus Sutra contains all of the Buddhas, they are to be regarded as of the same and one mind.

I must clear away all doubts and perplexities.
There is no discrepancy in the words of the Buddhas


-The Lotus Sutra, Chapter 2, Expedient Means.
i like reading you...you have a lot of metta..your take on stuff is interesting and your heart is into this whole process...
but i think this might be a lil off..
t is the inherent goodness within any being
don't get me started about Sunyata and the fact nothing is inherent...
I think thats why Q corrected me when i referred to It as source of all things...

also this was a big thing for me to read a couple of months back..

from The entity of the Mystic Law gosho
on this apparently not secure site warning from google
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47

The mystic principle that is the essential nature of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of ordinary mortals.

These two aspects, the deluded and the enlightened, are indeed two different phenomena, and yet both are workings of the one principle, that is, the essential nature of phenomena, or the true aspect of reality.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

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So is it like we have this Buddha Nature..or actually we are Buddhas and even though we are living Buddhas due to Karma or something we are deluded..
which is interesting...the whole polish your mirror thing makes more sense just now.

i see where lots of practice every day really helps with the understanding stuff.

If we were not Buddhas we could not produce this human form...???

I recall Rinpoche telling us that the Human form is the most desirable due to the Dharma body we develop from the moment we are in the womb...our chakras and channels are superior to the gods for they only have three. I recall three but might be wrong...
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

Minobu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:59 pm
t is the inherent goodness within any being
don't get me started about Sunyata and the fact nothing is inherent...
I think thats why Q corrected me when i referred to It as source of all things...

Actually now that i reread this it does not jive...it's not the source of all things and yet it's part and parcel to all things...???

might be this whole mind thing...which is a step above my pay grade...
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Queequeg »

Stop looking for the source. It will never end.

It is merely thus.

As for Buddha -

"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."
-Vakkali Sutta

Myohorengekyo is the name of the Buddha's ultimate teaching. She who sees Myohorengekyo, sees Buddha; she who sees Buddha, sees Myohorengekyo. Truly seeing Myohorengekyo, one sees Buddha; seeing Buddha one sees Myohorengekyo.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Shoho »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:48 pm Stop looking for the source. It will never end.

It is merely thus.

As for Buddha -

"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."
-Vakkali Sutta

Myohorengekyo is the name of the Buddha's ultimate teaching. She who sees Myohorengekyo, sees Buddha; she who sees Buddha, sees Myohorengekyo. Truly seeing Myohorengekyo, one sees Buddha; seeing Buddha one sees Myohorengekyo.
The Daimoku is the non created triple bodied Buddha of absolute freedom(musa sanjin jijuyu hoshin nyorai)
This refers to the concept of ninpo ittai/ninpo ikka.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:48 pm Stop looking for the source. It will never end.

It is merely thus.

As for Buddha -

"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."
-Vakkali Sutta

Myohorengekyo is the name of the Buddha's ultimate teaching. She who sees Myohorengekyo, sees Buddha; she who sees Buddha, sees Myohorengekyo. Truly seeing Myohorengekyo, one sees Buddha; seeing Buddha one sees Myohorengekyo.
Stop looking for the source. It will never end.
said to the guy with OCD...lol

anyway i think i am unto this whole we are Buddhas...I think this is what Nichiren Shonin meant by i inscribe my life in sumi ink...we are all the same...

Not that He was some special Buddha just a Buddha like you and me...
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

So the Gohonzon is the entity of the law (hottai). It shows the relationship between the Law of Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo and the Original Buddha. The person (original Buddha) and the law (Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo) are one and inseparable. The Gohonzon itself is the "oneness of the person and the law" (ninpo-ikka)[人法一箇]. It embodies this relationship

Nichikan Shonin states,
The Person is in of itself the Law; the Buddha of Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom is in of itself ichinen sanzen. The Law is in of itself the Person; ichinen sanzen is in of itself the Buddha of Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom.

(Seiten, p. 843)
Shoho mentioned "musa sanjin jijuyu hoshin nyorai" or "uncreated triple bodied buddha of absolute freedom"

musa = "uncreated" "unadorned" "original"

sanjin = "three bodies" or "three enlightened properties"

This is why Nichiren Shohsu considers Nichiren Daishonin to be the Original Buddha of Kuon-Ganjo. The Original Buddha is "uncreated" (does not have a "created" body or extraordinary features), this corresponds to Nichiren Daishonin who appeared simply as a "common mortal priest" in Mappo, and because of this common status, he read the Lotus Sutra with his own life (numerous persecutions in the Kanji chapter). Nichiren Daishonin was not adorned with any special features. If he was he would not have been able to fulfill his advent.

The mystic law embodied in the Gohonzon is "uncreated" and "eternal" and is only revealed by Nichiren Daishonin.
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Budai »

Minobu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:59 pm i like reading you...you have a lot of metta..your take on stuff is interesting and your heart is into this whole process...
but i think this might be a lil off..
t is the inherent goodness within any being
don't get me started about Sunyata and the fact nothing is inherent...
I think thats why Q corrected me when i referred to It as source of all things...
Thank you.

By inherent goodness I mean Buddha-Nature, whether fully actualized or not actualized at all, it is there. This essence, this Buddha-Nature is what gives all beings life. It is not the polluted qualities in someone that makes them who they truly are, but their basic goodness, despite however much of that goodness they have. In my first post on this forum I mentioned a Buddhist Monk who attained Enlightenment, and the day that He did He was the happiest person on Earth. He told me, in response to one of my questions, was that everyone Loves, no matter how degraded anyone is, everyone Loves everyone, even if just a little. I inquired on whether mara Loves, and the Enlightened Buddhist replied that yes, even mara Loves, even if just a small amount. Love is the principle on what emptiness is based on, it is it's essance, true emptiness is Love, and it makes us who we are and it is the only thing of value we will ever have. I can understand your point of view, and you are fully correct in it, but in a deeper sense it is Love that makes us who we are, and since it is synonymous with Buddha-Nature, as you know it is Buddha-Nature that is the vastness throughout all of Sunyata, it is only a matter of words and definitions on whether this Buddha-Nature is inherent or not. If you are looking for the Source, it has always been there. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

_johnarundel_ wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:36 pm So the Gohonzon is the entity of the law (hottai). It shows the relationship between the Law of Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo and the Original Buddha. The person (original Buddha) and the law (Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo) are one and inseparable. The Gohonzon itself is the "oneness of the person and the law" (ninpo-ikka)[人法一箇]. It embodies this relationship

Nichikan Shonin states,
The Person is in of itself the Law; the Buddha of Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom is in of itself ichinen sanzen. The Law is in of itself the Person; ichinen sanzen is in of itself the Buddha of Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom.

(Seiten, p. 843)
Shoho mentioned "musa sanjin jijuyu hoshin nyorai" or "uncreated triple bodied buddha of absolute freedom"

musa = "uncreated" "unadorned" "original"

sanjin = "three bodies" or "three enlightened properties"

This is why Nichiren Shohsu considers Nichiren Daishonin to be the Original Buddha of Kuon-Ganjo. The Original Buddha is "uncreated" (does not have a "created" body or extraordinary features), this corresponds to Nichiren Daishonin who appeared simply as a "common mortal priest" in Mappo, and because of this common status, he read the Lotus Sutra with his own life (numerous persecutions in the Kanji chapter). Nichiren Daishonin was not adorned with any special features. If he was he would not have been able to fulfill his advent.

The mystic law embodied in the Gohonzon is "uncreated" and "eternal" and is only revealed by Nichiren Daishonin.
I'm starting to see the Original primordial Buddha as MyoHo RenGe Kyo

This concept of the Buddha and his features, one of which is a four foot penis or something like that , is all metaphor...Indian metaphor..Some say some people can see it others cannot..
If you think The Buddha was wandering around with a four foot penis and the other features...well i dunno John...
where do you get this from anyway...never heard of this...is this a ShoShu thing..

also i recall in the old days there were transient Buddhas , gakki referred to Lord Sakyamuni Buddha as a transient Buddha and The Buddha of Kuon Ganjo as a provisional Buddha...

but i guess all this talk of a Primordial Buddha and stuff i have read finally hit home and i have an idea now about the Eternal Buddha MyoHo RenGe Kyo
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

sorry John you got it right according to the Gakki and Shoshu traditions .

here have a look at it from this gakki link
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/P/124
provisional Buddha [迹仏] ( shakubutsu): Also, transient Buddha. A Buddha who does not reveal his true identity, but assumes a transient status or role in order to save the people. The term is used in contrast with “true Buddha,” a Buddha who has revealed his true identity
but the way you view the whole 32 feature thing i think is also coming from the ShoShu tradition ..

but i never heard of it said this way until now...It's a lone ShoShu concept

So it must strictly be a ShoShu thing they are telling people , i view it as belittling The Lord Buddha Sakyamuni ..in order to bolster ShoShu view.

no mention of it in the gakki...
from
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/94
thirty-two features [三十二相] ( sanjūni-sō): Remarkable physical characteristics attributed to Buddhas, bodhisattvas, Brahmā, Shakra, and wheel-turning kings, symbolizing their superiority over ordinary people. They are (1) flat soles, (2) markings of a thousand-spoked wheel on the soles, (3) long, slender fingers, (4) broad, flat heels, (5) webbed feet and hands, (6) extremely flexible limbs, (7) protuberant insteps, (8) slender legs like those of a deer, (9) hands that extend past the knees even in a standing position, (10) concealed genitals, (11) body height equal to arm span, (12) body hair that turns upward, (13) one hair growing from each pore, (14) golden skin, (15) light radiating from the body, (16) thin pliant skin, (17) well-developed muscles of the hands, feet, shoulders, and nape of neck, (18) well-developed muscles below the armpits, (19) a dignified torso like that of a lion, (20) a large and straight body, (21) substantial shoulders, (22) forty teeth, (23) even teeth, (24) four white fangs, (25) full cheeks like those of a lion, (26) an unexcelled sense of taste, (27) a long broad tongue, (28) a pure and far-reaching voice, (29) eyes the color of blue lotus blossoms, (30) long eyelashes like those of a cow, (31) a knot of flesh on the head like a topknot, and (32) a tuft of white hair between the eyebrows, curling to the right. The descriptions and order of these features differ slightly among the Buddhist scriptures. According to The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom, they are acquired one by one as a result of good causes made over a total of three asamkhya kalpas and one hundred major kalpas. Great Perfection of Wisdom also says that in the case of a wheel-turning king these marks are somewhat vague and unstable, while in the case of a Buddha they are obvious and stable. The Buddha is often referred to as possessing the “thirty-two features and eighty characteristics,” the eighty characteristics being another set of remarkable qualities possessed by Buddhas and bodhisattvas.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by tkp67 »

Also from the same dictionary

true Buddha [本仏] ( hombutsu):

---> http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/
A Buddha in his true identity, in contrast to his transient or provisional identity. This term is applied in two specific ways:
(1) To Shakyamuni Buddha as he describes himself in the “Life Span” (sixteenth) chapter of the Lotus Sutra; that is, as having attained Buddhahood in the remote past, countless kalpas ago. In that chapter, Shakyamuni states: “In all the worlds the heavenly and human beings and asuras all believe that the present Shakyamuni Buddha, after leaving the palace of the Shākyas, seated himself in the place of meditation not far from the city of Gayā and there attained supreme perfect enlightenment. But good men, it has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood.” With this statement, Shakyamuni redefines his identity as a Buddha who originally attained his enlightenment in the remarkably remote past. From the standpoint of the philosophy of the Lotus Sutra, the Shakyamuni who is thought to have attained enlightenment in the current life under the bodhi tree in India is a “provisional Buddha,” or a Buddha in his transient identity. In this provisional identity, Shakyamuni is seen as a temporary manifestation of the true Buddha who employed various temporary, expedient teachings to prepare people to understand his true identity and true teaching and thereby lead them to enlightenment.
From the perspective of the content of the Lotus Sutra, the true Buddha corresponds to the Shakyamuni depicted in the essential teaching (latter half) of the Lotus Sutra, while the Buddha in his transient identity is the Shakyamuni of the theoretical teaching (first half) of the sutra.
(2) As a reference to Nichiren (1222–1282), applied to him traditionally by those in the lineage of his disciple Nikkō. In The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra, T’ien-t’ai (538–597) refers to the true cause and the true effect as the first two of the ten mystic principles of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra based on the revelation of Shakyamuni’s original attainment of enlightenment in the remote past. He associates the true cause with the sentence in the “Life Span” chapter, “Originally I practiced the bodhisattva way, and the life that I acquired then has yet to come to an end,” and the true effect with the sentence “Since I attained Buddhahood, an extremely long period of time has passed.” In the remote past, Shakyamuni practiced the bodhisattva way (the true cause) and attained Buddhahood (the true effect). Shakyamuni never specifically reveals, however, what teaching he originally practiced, the original cause or seed of his Buddhahood.
Regarding this, Nichiren states: “The doctrine of the sowing of the seed and its maturing and harvesting is the very heart and core of the Lotus Sutra. All the Buddhas of the three existences and the ten directions have invariably attained Buddhahood through the seeds represented by the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo” (1015). From this perspective, Nichiren is regarded as the teacher of the true cause, and Shakyamuni as the teacher of the true effect. This is because in the Lotus Sutra Shakyamuni revealed his eternal Buddhahood, the effect of his original bodhisattva practice. He did not, however, reveal the true cause or the nature of the specific practice by which he attained it. Nichiren, on the other hand, revealed the teaching and practice of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which he identified as the true cause that enables all people to attain Buddhahood. This viewpoint identifies Nichiren as the true Buddha.
Nichiren explains the passage of the Lotus Sutra cited above, “It has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood,” in The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings. He says, “‘I in fact’ is explaining that Shakyamuni in fact attained Buddhahood in the inconceivably remote past. The meaning of this chapter, however, is that ‘I’ represents the living beings of the phenomenal world. ‘I’ here refers to each and every being in the Ten Worlds. ‘In fact’ establishes that ‘I’ is a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies. This is what is being called a ‘fact.’ ‘Attained’ refers both to the one who attains and to what is attained. ‘Attain’ means to open or reveal. It is to reveal that the beings of the phenomenal world are Buddhas eternally endowed with the three bodies. ‘Buddhahood’ means being enlightened to this.” Here Nichiren is saying that every being is essentially “a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies,” a true Buddha. In this sense, “true Buddha” refers to the Buddha nature eternally inherent in the lives of all living beings. In The True Aspect of All Phenomena, Nichiren states, “A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha” (384). See also Buddha of beginningless time; Buddha of limitless joy; true cause.

Also

Buddha of beginningless time [久遠元初の自受用身] ( kuonganjo-no-jijuyūshin)

---> http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/84
Also, eternal Buddha, original Buddha, or true Buddha. The Buddha who has been eternally endowed with the three bodies—the Dharma body, the reward body, and the manifested body, thereby embodying the eternal Law or the ultimate truth of life and the universe. This term appears in Nichiren’s (1222–1282) writing given to his successor Nikkō. Titled On the Mystic Principle of the True Cause, it refers to “the Mystic Law, uncreated and eternal, of the Buddha of beginningless time,” and states that the Mystic Law lies in the depths of the “Life Span” (sixteenth) chapter of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha, based on the fact that Nichiren was the first to spread the Mystic Law. According to Nichiren, the Japanese term jijuyūshin literally means the “body that is freely received and used.” The Buddha of beginningless time is also called the Buddha of limitless joy—indicating the Buddha who freely derives boundless joy from the Law while enjoying absolute freedom, and who directly expounds the Law that he realized within his own life. In the “Life Span” chapter, Shakyamuni revealed his attainment of Buddhahood numberless major world system dust particle kalpas in the past. No matter how far in the past, however, it occurred at a fixed point in time and therefore is not eternal. Moreover, he did not clarify the Law or cause that enabled him to attain enlightenment at that time.
In contrast, the Buddha of beginningless time is eternal and also represents eternal life endowed with both the nine worlds and Buddhahood. In The Opening of the Eyes, Nichiren states: “This is the doctrine of original cause and original effect. It reveals that the nine worlds are all present in beginningless Buddhahood and that Buddhahood is inherent in the beginningless nine worlds. This is the true mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, the true hundred worlds and thousand factors, the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” (235). Here “original cause” refers to the “beginningless nine worlds,” and “original effect” to “beginningless Buddhahood.” What Nichiren defined as “the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” is the original state of life. To manifest this state of life is the attainment of Buddhahood for all people. Nichiren established the practice that enables everyone to achieve this by inscribing the Gohonzon, or the object of devotion that embodies this original state of life, and prescribing the invocation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. See also Buddha of limitless joy; true Buddha.
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

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tkp67 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:39 am Also from the same dictionary

true Buddha [本仏] ( hombutsu):

---> http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/
A Buddha in his true identity, in contrast to his transient or provisional identity. This term is applied in two specific ways:
(1) To Shakyamuni Buddha as he describes himself in the “Life Span” (sixteenth) chapter of the Lotus Sutra; that is, as having attained Buddhahood in the remote past, countless kalpas ago. In that chapter, Shakyamuni states: “In all the worlds the heavenly and human beings and asuras all believe that the present Shakyamuni Buddha, after leaving the palace of the Shākyas, seated himself in the place of meditation not far from the city of Gayā and there attained supreme perfect enlightenment. But good men, it has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood.” With this statement, Shakyamuni redefines his identity as a Buddha who originally attained his enlightenment in the remarkably remote past. From the standpoint of the philosophy of the Lotus Sutra, the Shakyamuni who is thought to have attained enlightenment in the current life under the bodhi tree in India is a “provisional Buddha,” or a Buddha in his transient identity. In this provisional identity, Shakyamuni is seen as a temporary manifestation of the true Buddha who employed various temporary, expedient teachings to prepare people to understand his true identity and true teaching and thereby lead them to enlightenment.
From the perspective of the content of the Lotus Sutra, the true Buddha corresponds to the Shakyamuni depicted in the essential teaching (latter half) of the Lotus Sutra, while the Buddha in his transient identity is the Shakyamuni of the theoretical teaching (first half) of the sutra.
(2) As a reference to Nichiren (1222–1282), applied to him traditionally by those in the lineage of his disciple Nikkō. In The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra, T’ien-t’ai (538–597) refers to the true cause and the true effect as the first two of the ten mystic principles of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra based on the revelation of Shakyamuni’s original attainment of enlightenment in the remote past. He associates the true cause with the sentence in the “Life Span” chapter, “Originally I practiced the bodhisattva way, and the life that I acquired then has yet to come to an end,” and the true effect with the sentence “Since I attained Buddhahood, an extremely long period of time has passed.” In the remote past, Shakyamuni practiced the bodhisattva way (the true cause) and attained Buddhahood (the true effect). Shakyamuni never specifically reveals, however, what teaching he originally practiced, the original cause or seed of his Buddhahood.
Regarding this, Nichiren states: “The doctrine of the sowing of the seed and its maturing and harvesting is the very heart and core of the Lotus Sutra. All the Buddhas of the three existences and the ten directions have invariably attained Buddhahood through the seeds represented by the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo” (1015). From this perspective, Nichiren is regarded as the teacher of the true cause, and Shakyamuni as the teacher of the true effect. This is because in the Lotus Sutra Shakyamuni revealed his eternal Buddhahood, the effect of his original bodhisattva practice. He did not, however, reveal the true cause or the nature of the specific practice by which he attained it. Nichiren, on the other hand, revealed the teaching and practice of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which he identified as the true cause that enables all people to attain Buddhahood. This viewpoint identifies Nichiren as the true Buddha.
Nichiren explains the passage of the Lotus Sutra cited above, “It has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood,” in The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings. He says, “‘I in fact’ is explaining that Shakyamuni in fact attained Buddhahood in the inconceivably remote past. The meaning of this chapter, however, is that ‘I’ represents the living beings of the phenomenal world. ‘I’ here refers to each and every being in the Ten Worlds. ‘In fact’ establishes that ‘I’ is a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies. This is what is being called a ‘fact.’ ‘Attained’ refers both to the one who attains and to what is attained. ‘Attain’ means to open or reveal. It is to reveal that the beings of the phenomenal world are Buddhas eternally endowed with the three bodies. ‘Buddhahood’ means being enlightened to this.” Here Nichiren is saying that every being is essentially “a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies,” a true Buddha. In this sense, “true Buddha” refers to the Buddha nature eternally inherent in the lives of all living beings. In The True Aspect of All Phenomena, Nichiren states, “A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha” (384). See also Buddha of beginningless time; Buddha of limitless joy; true cause.

Also

Buddha of beginningless time [久遠元初の自受用身] ( kuonganjo-no-jijuyūshin)

---> http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/84
Also, eternal Buddha, original Buddha, or true Buddha. The Buddha who has been eternally endowed with the three bodies—the Dharma body, the reward body, and the manifested body, thereby embodying the eternal Law or the ultimate truth of life and the universe. This term appears in Nichiren’s (1222–1282) writing given to his successor Nikkō. Titled On the Mystic Principle of the True Cause, it refers to “the Mystic Law, uncreated and eternal, of the Buddha of beginningless time,” and states that the Mystic Law lies in the depths of the “Life Span” (sixteenth) chapter of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha, based on the fact that Nichiren was the first to spread the Mystic Law. According to Nichiren, the Japanese term jijuyūshin literally means the “body that is freely received and used.” The Buddha of beginningless time is also called the Buddha of limitless joy—indicating the Buddha who freely derives boundless joy from the Law while enjoying absolute freedom, and who directly expounds the Law that he realized within his own life. In the “Life Span” chapter, Shakyamuni revealed his attainment of Buddhahood numberless major world system dust particle kalpas in the past. No matter how far in the past, however, it occurred at a fixed point in time and therefore is not eternal. Moreover, he did not clarify the Law or cause that enabled him to attain enlightenment at that time.
In contrast, the Buddha of beginningless time is eternal and also represents eternal life endowed with both the nine worlds and Buddhahood. In The Opening of the Eyes, Nichiren states: “This is the doctrine of original cause and original effect. It reveals that the nine worlds are all present in beginningless Buddhahood and that Buddhahood is inherent in the beginningless nine worlds. This is the true mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, the true hundred worlds and thousand factors, the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” (235). Here “original cause” refers to the “beginningless nine worlds,” and “original effect” to “beginningless Buddhahood.” What Nichiren defined as “the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” is the original state of life. To manifest this state of life is the attainment of Buddhahood for all people. Nichiren established the practice that enables everyone to achieve this by inscribing the Gohonzon, or the object of devotion that embodies this original state of life, and prescribing the invocation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. See also Buddha of limitless joy; true Buddha.

Awe man i could kiss you...thanks i have been looking for this ever since some new people to our little soiree wish to say it was Nichiren Shonin who says He is the True Buddha of Kuon Ganjo when in FACT it was

Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha
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Minobu
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

too bad the taisekiji thread got locked for this would have done nicely there ..we gotta stop fighting over this and just realize it was all due to a person hundreds of years after Nichiren Shonin ..probably meant well and got all emotional and thought it was a good thing..
But think of all the Karma created by this false view..So tell your friends and save them the bother.

Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha
so lets all move on and realize who Nichiren Shonin was: an incarnation of...Bodhisattva Jogyo , exactly who Nichiren Shonin Said He Was
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:10 pm too bad the taisekiji thread got locked for this would have done nicely there ..we gotta stop fighting over this and just realize it was all due to a person hundreds of years after Nichiren Shonin ..probably meant well and got all emotional and thought it was a good thing..
But think of all the Karma created by this false view..So tell your friends and save them the bother.

Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha
so lets all move on and realize who Nichiren Shonin was: an incarnation of...Bodhisattva Jogyo , exactly who Nichiren Shonin Said He Was
Why does it matter to you what Nichiren shoshu believes? You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe. Seems better to just let people believe as they do.

I trust the priesthood. I trust Hokkeko I believe

You don't

Alright
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:21 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:10 pm too bad the taisekiji thread got locked for this would have done nicely there ..we gotta stop fighting over this and just realize it was all due to a person hundreds of years after Nichiren Shonin ..probably meant well and got all emotional and thought it was a good thing..
But think of all the Karma created by this false view..So tell your friends and save them the bother.

Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha
so lets all move on and realize who Nichiren Shonin was: an incarnation of...Bodhisattva Jogyo , exactly who Nichiren Shonin Said He Was
Why does it matter to you what Nichiren shoshu believes? You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe. Seems better to just let people believe as they do.

I trust the priesthood. I trust Hokkeko I believe

You don't

Alright
pot meet kettle
You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe
sure i get it.most of us have been where you are hanging..it is hard to undo ...but what more do you want...it's history...you want to pretend it isn't true...is that what Dharma Wheel is about?


do you believe in Santa Claus..kids do...when they first find out it's not true there is a psychological process put in place.

so why did you not include that all the shoshu members can stop saying Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is a provisional Buddha and start referring to the fact that Nichiren Shonin is Bodhisattva Jogyo and is not this Buddha of Kuon Ganjo..

what ever you want i shall comply..you can't have it one way..

and until the influx of shoshu members arrived here it was like a subject seldom brought up..

and they all seem to have run away and hid...since seeing this
Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha

.peace and love my man.
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:10 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:21 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:10 pm too bad the taisekiji thread got locked for this would have done nicely there ..we gotta stop fighting over this and just realize it was all due to a person hundreds of years after Nichiren Shonin ..probably meant well and got all emotional and thought it was a good thing..
But think of all the Karma created by this false view..So tell your friends and save them the bother.




so lets all move on and realize who Nichiren Shonin was: an incarnation of...Bodhisattva Jogyo , exactly who Nichiren Shonin Said He Was
Why does it matter to you what Nichiren shoshu believes? You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe. Seems better to just let people believe as they do.

I trust the priesthood. I trust Hokkeko I believe

You don't

Alright
pot meet kettle
You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe
sure i get it.most of us have been where you are hanging..it is hard to undo ...but what more do you want...it's history...you want to pretend it isn't true...is that what Dharma Wheel is about?


do you believe in Santa Claus..kids do...when they first find out it's not true there is a psychological process put in place.

so why did you not include that all the shoshu members can stop saying Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is a provisional Buddha and start referring to the fact that Nichiren Shonin is Bodhisattva Jogyo and is not this Buddha of Kuon Ganjo..

what ever you want i shall comply..you can't have it one way..

and until the influx of shoshu members arrived here it was like a subject seldom brought up..

and they all seem to have run away and hid...since seeing this
Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha

.peace and love my man.
I'm not trying to have you believe anything. Your the one trash talking Nichiren shoshu beliefs

repeating your statements for me anyway doesn't do much. I understand your position which is different then what I believe

No plm
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
User avatar
Minobu
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Re: why refer to MyoHo RenGe Kyo as an entity ?

Post by Minobu »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:18 pm
Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:10 pm
Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:21 pm

Why does it matter to you what Nichiren shoshu believes? You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe. Seems better to just let people believe as they do.

I trust the priesthood. I trust Hokkeko I believe

You don't

Alright
pot meet kettle
You keep restating your position but that's not what we believe
sure i get it.most of us have been where you are hanging..it is hard to undo ...but what more do you want...it's history...you want to pretend it isn't true...is that what Dharma Wheel is about?


do you believe in Santa Claus..kids do...when they first find out it's not true there is a psychological process put in place.

so why did you not include that all the shoshu members can stop saying Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is a provisional Buddha and start referring to the fact that Nichiren Shonin is Bodhisattva Jogyo and is not this Buddha of Kuon Ganjo..

what ever you want i shall comply..you can't have it one way..

and until the influx of shoshu members arrived here it was like a subject seldom brought up..

and they all seem to have run away and hid...since seeing this
Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha

.peace and love my man.
I'm not trying to have you believe anything. Your the one trash talking Nichiren shoshu beliefs

repeating your statements for me anyway doesn't do much. I understand your position which is different then what I believe

No plm

whoa!!! trash talking ....i don't think so...it's called debate and backing it up with history in this case...

you sound like someone suffering from Stockholm syndrome...
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