What is the history of the daimoku?

bcol01
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by bcol01 »

Who originally thought of it, and why do people believe that this phrase merits enlightenment and benefits?
If it's truly Buddhist at all, why didn't the Buddha teach about the daimoku specifically, or am I just not getting something here? :shrug:
narhwal90
Posts: 1094
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by narhwal90 »

As context, but not as authority, there is the wiki article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namu_My%C ... e_Ky%C5%8D

suggesting origins dating back to Saicho. I suggest getting a copy of Stone's "Original Enlightenment and the Transformation of Medieval Japanese Buddhism"- available from amazon et al and not expensive, it takes up the origins of the Kamakura single-practice schools, how they evolved, how they have changed over time. It is an easy book to make headway in, and quite informative.
Shoho
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:06 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Shoho »

I would be careful to check the sources that are listed as some of them are not listed correctly. Also it seems that it is written with a rather anti shoshu tilt.
Gassho
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

Shoho wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:54 pm I would be careful to check the sources that are listed as some of them are not listed correctly. Also it seems that it is written with a rather anti shoshu tilt.
Gassho
hi , you are new here so hi...

what anti shoshu tilt..i could not see any.
and wiki is a bit bent at times
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

Shoho wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:54 pm I would be careful to check the sources that are listed as some of them are not listed correctly. Also it seems that it is written with a rather anti shoshu tilt.
Gassho
Some might say... Shoshu is the odd man out.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

bcol01 wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:07 am Who originally thought of it,
As a single practice - Nichiren.
As a non-exclusive invocation - at least back to Tendai Daishi (Zhiyi); maybe his teacher.
and why do people believe that this phrase merits enlightenment and benefits?
That's an awkward phrasing. Do you mean, "leads to enlightenment and benefits?"

1. The name encompasses the entirety. Nichiren wrote something to the effect, all of Japan is contained in the two characters that make up the name of the nation : 日本. Likewise, the title of the sutras encompass the entirety of their content and are the essence of the teachings. One of the three major works of Tendai Daishi (Zhiyi) is an explanation of the title, "妙法蓮華経". The title is the essence of the teaching. "Myohorengekyo" is the title of the Lotus Sutra and its essence.

2. The Lotus proclaims that it is the ultimate teaching of the Buddha. All Buddhas appear and teach to expound this teaching. All teachings of the Buddha are derivative and based on this teaching. This is why it is called the Ekayana - the Single Vehicle - in contrast to the Three Vehicles - Sravakayana, Pratyekabuddhayana, Bodhisattvayana - which are at once versions of the Ekayana and preparatory teachings for the Ekayana.

3. By receiving the Ekayana, one is irreversibly on the path to Buddhahood. Just as the Three Vehicles are versions of and preparation for the Ekayana, the path to Buddhahood is both an expression of Buddhahood and Buddhahood itself. We experience time as a sequential chain of mind-moments; however, just as a lotus seed in the mud grows in stages into a blossoming lotus plant, a bodhisattva in the world grows in stages into buddha. Any distinctions in the development are rather arbitrary, though substantial. But, every buddha starts as a bodhisattva treading the path to buddhahood, so distinctions between the stages of bodhisattva, and bodhisattva and Buddha, are both substantial and arbitrary. This is particularly illustrated by great bodhisattvas like Avalokitesvara, Manjusri, Samantabhadra, etc. who are already fully awakened beings who appear as bodhisattvas in order to save beings.

This is where one may feel they are stretched to the limits of credulity (difficult to understand, difficult to believe) - by simply receiving the seed of the Ekayana, one is, in the scheme of boundless samsara, on the verge of bodhi. Even three eons is the blink of an eye in the context of boundless samsara. Nichiren taught and believed that simply by receiving the Daimoku - without disparaging it - one irreversibly enters the path. Moreover, even if one does disparage it, one has made an indelible connection with the teaching that will culminate in buddhahood eventually.
If it's truly Buddhist at all, why didn't the Buddha teach about the daimoku specifically,
The Daimoku is a truly Buddhist teaching. The Buddha taught many things, including the Lotus Sutra. He taught Buddhasmrti - the practice of keeping the Buddha in mind. Daimoku is basically a buddhasmrti practice. According to the Lotus Schools, and Nichiren in particular, the Daimoku is synonymous with the complete, boundless identity of the Buddha as revealed in the Lotus Sutra. For Nichiren Buddhists, the main practice is to be mindful of the Daimoku, ie. the Buddha of the Essential Section of the Lotus Sutra.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
User avatar
Bois de Santal
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:01 am
Location: La Manche

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Bois de Santal »

Minobu wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:25 pm
Shoho wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:54 pm I would be careful to check the sources that are listed as some of them are not listed correctly. Also it seems that it is written with a rather anti shoshu tilt.
Gassho
hi , you are new here so hi...

what anti shoshu tilt..i could not see any.
and wiki is a bit bent at times
I don't see an anti-shoshu tilt at all. Rather a well balanced article, all in all. But if there are errors in there perhaps a thread should be opened here so that we can discuss them.
Shoho
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:06 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Shoho »

Hi.
The reason I said the book by j. Stone is anti shoshu is she makes statements about shoshu doctrine that leave out the reasons why the doctrine is a ‘strong’ interpretation.
I don’t have every English translation of the kanjin honzon sho,
(I have the Nichiren shu and the first gakkai). The shu hasthe part about shijo shogaku, the gakkai one doesn’t.
They both leave out the parts(there are four of them)about kyoji. These parts explain why Shoshu doctrine claims Nichiren is the eternal buddha.

又本門十四品の一経に序正流通有り、涌出品の半品を序分と為し寿量品と前後の二半と此れを正宗と為す、其の余は流通分なり、其の教主を論ずれば始成正覚の釈尊に非ず、所説の法門も亦天地の如し、十界久遠の上に国土世間既に顕われ一念三千殆んど竹膜を隔つ、又迹門並びに前四味・無量義経・涅槃経等の三説は悉く随他意の易信易解・本門は三説の外の難信難解・随自意なり”
観心本尊抄 STN p.154

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in buddhagaya. accordingly, what is preached here differs from what was preached before as clearly as heaven and earth.....

脇士
Basic Meaning: assistants of the buddha on each side
Senses:
Bodhisattvas, arhats, and others who stand at both sides of a Buddha.

始成正覺
Basic Meaning: first attainment of enlightenment
Senses:
The enlightenment of the Buddha 成正覺 under the Bodhi Tree.
Shoho
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:06 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Shoho »

Forgot to say where this quote is from
Noppa Doctrine 2, page 152
STN page 154
Gosho zenshu page 248
Showa shintei page 969
Gassho
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

Shoho wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:14 pm Hi.
The reason I said the book by j. Stone is anti shoshu is she makes statements about shoshu doctrine that leave out the reasons why the doctrine is a ‘strong’ interpretation.
I don’t have every English translation of the kanjin honzon sho,
(I have the Nichiren shu and the first gakkai). The shu hasthe part about shijo shogaku, the gakkai one doesn’t.
They both leave out the parts(there are four of them)about kyoji. These parts explain why Shoshu doctrine claims Nichiren is the eternal buddha.

又本門十四品の一経に序正流通有り、涌出品の半品を序分と為し寿量品と前後の二半と此れを正宗と為す、其の余は流通分なり、其の教主を論ずれば始成正覚の釈尊に非ず、所説の法門も亦天地の如し、十界久遠の上に国土世間既に顕われ一念三千殆んど竹膜を隔つ、又迹門並びに前四味・無量義経・涅槃経等の三説は悉く随他意の易信易解・本門は三説の外の難信難解・随自意なり”
観心本尊抄 STN p.154

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in buddhagaya. accordingly, what is preached here differs from what was preached before as clearly as heaven and earth.....

脇士
Basic Meaning: assistants of the buddha on each side
Senses:
Bodhisattvas, arhats, and others who stand at both sides of a Buddha.

始成正覺
Basic Meaning: first attainment of enlightenment
Senses:
The enlightenment of the Buddha 成正覺 under the Bodhi Tree.

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in bodh gaya.
I used spell check for Bodh Gaya
Due to the fact this is all Mahayana teaching , The Lotus Sutra was retrieved by Lord Buddha Nagarjuna from the Ocean Floor with the aid of Nagas.
We also don't adhere to the Theavadian concept of Buddha attaining enlightenment for the first time under The Bohdi Tree. His life , Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is all theatre written and directed by Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And two things here are vital.

Lord Sakyamuni Buddha revealed when exactly He first attained Buddhahood.

And secoundly we all our part and parcel living and dwelling in His universal Mandala through His Dharma Kaya Body...like everyone..is surrounded and being imbued by IT.

Ok so like MyHo RenGE is the Source...The source produces both defilement and enlightenment when IT is neither...

So if someone believes Nichiren Shonin is a direct product of MyoHo RenGe and in fact is the Primordial Buddha "Is OK " No big whoop ...but once you deny Who's Mandala we are in ...you really are going to damage yourself and others around you...For we are in the Palm of Lord MahaVairocana . Who is An Emanation of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And one must understand as I am sure Nichiren Shonin knew What exactly is This Mandall of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha's I am talking about...

For moi when i gaze at Nichiren's Signature on my online version of the Shutei gohonzon ...all i have ...propped up on a HP printer covered in the bag it came in , When I gaze at That I see someone as worthy as The other masters and Buddha mentioned on Gohonzon...

It Is His Art and Craft ,A Buddhist Master,,His Life was not Theatre ...
It Was And Is Always ..... Living Buddhist Art.
User avatar
_johnarundel_
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:00 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by _johnarundel_ »

Minobu wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:37 am Ok so like MyHo RenGE is the Source...The source produces both defilement and enlightenment when IT is neither...

So if someone believes Nichiren Shonin is a direct product of MyoHo RenGe and in fact is the Primordial Buddha "Is OK " No big whoop .



For moi when i gaze at Nichiren's Signature on my online version of the Shutei gohonzon ...all i have ...propped up on a HP printer covered in the bag it came in , When I gaze at That I see someone as worthy as The other masters and Buddha mentioned on Gohonzon...


Hi!

So, I think this concerns the principle of the "Oneness of the Person and the Law" (ninpo-ikka)(人法一箇).

This indicates the the Gohonzon in terms of the person and the Gohonzon in terms of the Law are one and inseperable. The person is Nichiren Daishonin and the Law is Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo. Thus the seven characters of Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo and the life of the Daishonin are not two seperate things, but a single entity.

Concerning the Gohonzon of the Oneness of the Person and the Law, Nichiren Daishonin states in "Reply to Kyo'o" ("Kyo'o dono gohenji"),
I, Nichiren, with sumi ink, have infused my life into the Gohonzon. So believe in it. The will of the Buddha is the Lotus sutra, but the spirit of Nichiren is nothing than Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo

(Gosho, p. 685)
So when we talk about Myoho-Renge-Kyo, it is in itself inseparable from the Daishonin's life. Thus, the Gohonzon is entity of ichinen sanzen and manifests the "Oneness of the Person and the Law."
"The five characters of Myoho-Renge-Kyo are the core of the Lotus Sutra and the origin of all Buddhas throughout the entire world. Upon seeing the signs that these five characters now must be propagated, I, Nichiren, have set the precedent, today, at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law."

- Nichiren Daishonin, “Shuju onfurumai-gosho” 種種御振舞御書


https://www.nichirenshoshu.or.jp/eng/daishonin.html
Shoho
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:06 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Shoho »

Minobu wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:37 am
Shoho wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:14 pm Hi.
The reason I said the book by j. Stone is anti shoshu is she makes statements about shoshu doctrine that leave out the reasons why the doctrine is a ‘strong’ interpretation.
I don’t have every English translation of the kanjin honzon sho,
(I have the Nichiren shu and the first gakkai). The shu hasthe part about shijo shogaku, the gakkai one doesn’t.
They both leave out the parts(there are four of them)about kyoji. These parts explain why Shoshu doctrine claims Nichiren is the eternal buddha.

又本門十四品の一経に序正流通有り、涌出品の半品を序分と為し寿量品と前後の二半と此れを正宗と為す、其の余は流通分なり、其の教主を論ずれば始成正覚の釈尊に非ず、所説の法門も亦天地の如し、十界久遠の上に国土世間既に顕われ一念三千殆んど竹膜を隔つ、又迹門並びに前四味・無量義経・涅槃経等の三説は悉く随他意の易信易解・本門は三説の外の難信難解・随自意なり”
観心本尊抄 STN p.154

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in buddhagaya. accordingly, what is preached here differs from what was preached before as clearly as heaven and earth.....

脇士
Basic Meaning: assistants of the buddha on each side
Senses:
Bodhisattvas, arhats, and others who stand at both sides of a Buddha.

始成正覺
Basic Meaning: first attainment of enlightenment
Senses:
The enlightenment of the Buddha 成正覺 under the Bodhi Tree.

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in bodh gaya.
I used spell check for Bodh Gaya
Due to the fact this is all Mahayana teaching , The Lotus Sutra was retrieved by Lord Buddha Nagarjuna from the Ocean Floor with the aid of Nagas.
We also don't adhere to the Theavadian concept of Buddha attaining enlightenment for the first time under The Bohdi Tree. His life , Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is all theatre written and directed by Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And two things here are vital.

Lord Sakyamuni Buddha revealed when exactly He first attained Buddhahood.

And secoundly we all our part and parcel living and dwelling in His universal Mandala through His Dharma Kaya Body...like everyone..is surrounded and being imbued by IT.

Ok so like MyHo RenGE is the Source...The source produces both defilement and enlightenment when IT is neither...

So if someone believes Nichiren Shonin is a direct product of MyoHo RenGe and in fact is the Primordial Buddha "Is OK " No big whoop ...but once you deny Who's Mandala we are in ...you really are going to damage yourself and others around you...For we are in the Palm of Lord MahaVairocana . Who is An Emanation of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And one must understand as I am sure Nichiren Shonin knew What exactly is This Mandall of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha's I am talking about...

For moi when i gaze at Nichiren's Signature on my online version of the Shutei gohonzon ...all i have ...propped up on a HP printer covered in the bag it came in , When I gaze at That I see someone as worthy as The other masters and Buddha mentioned on Gohonzon...

It Is His Art and Craft ,A Buddhist Master,,His Life was not Theatre ...
It Was And Is Always ..... Living Buddhist Art.
The Kanjin Honzon Sho explains that this concept is untenable.
It states that when the Shakyamuni that attained enlightenment in India disappears so do all the other Buddhas as well as their lands.
This is the eternal pure land. And there is only one Buddha in a Buddha land.
These ideas regarding Nichirens doctrine came about due to bad doctrines perpetuated by money hungry slanderers.
Gassho
正法
‘Do you really know what you know you know?’
Daevid Allen-Gong
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

_johnarundel_ wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:38 am
Minobu wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:37 am Ok so like MyHo RenGE is the Source...The source produces both defilement and enlightenment when IT is neither...

So if someone believes Nichiren Shonin is a direct product of MyoHo RenGe and in fact is the Primordial Buddha "Is OK " No big whoop .



For moi when i gaze at Nichiren's Signature on my online version of the Shutei gohonzon ...all i have ...propped up on a HP printer covered in the bag it came in , When I gaze at That I see someone as worthy as The other masters and Buddha mentioned on Gohonzon...


Hi!

So, I think this concerns the principle of the "Oneness of the Person and the Law" (ninpo-ikka)(人法一箇).

This indicates the the Gohonzon in terms of the person and the Gohonzon in terms of the Law are one and inseperable. The person is Nichiren Daishonin and the Law is Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo. Thus the seven characters of Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo and the life of the Daishonin are not two seperate things, but a single entity.

Concerning the Gohonzon of the Oneness of the Person and the Law, Nichiren Daishonin states in "Reply to Kyo'o" ("Kyo'o dono gohenji"),
I, Nichiren, with sumi ink, have infused my life into the Gohonzon. So believe in it. The will of the Buddha is the Lotus sutra, but the spirit of Nichiren is nothing than Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo

(Gosho, p. 685)
So when we talk about Myoho-Renge-Kyo, it is in itself inseparable from the Daishonin's life. Thus, the Gohonzon is entity of ichinen sanzen and manifests the "Oneness of the Person and the Law."
This indicates the the Gohonzon in terms of the person and the Gohonzon in terms of the Law are one and inseperable. The person is Nichiren Daishonin and the Law is Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo. Thus the seven characters of Na-Mu-Myo-Ho-Re-Ge-Kyo and the life of the Daishonin are not two seperate things, but a single entity.
First up there is absolutely no difference between Nichiren shonin being one with the Law and any other sentient being being inseparable from MyoHo RenGe..
Once you start down this road of forcing yourself to believe that Nichiren Shonin is the True Buddha everything that I have learned is ruined.

it's like when some person tells a lie...and then they tell it again..eventually 35 years later they forget it was a lie and think it reality.

Now you will never understand the reality you live in...it has been taken away from you with inane paradigms ....Sorry but i will be harsh and use words like inane to wake you from your coma ...
Thus, the Gohonzon is entity of ichinen sanzen and manifests the "Oneness of the Person and the Law."
Only if you look upon it as Lord Sakyamuni Buddha's Mandala ...You must have faith as the Daishonin teaches...Mara is at play here...always has since the inception of these ruinous concepts of The DaiGohonzon and all that that entails and this Nichiren is The Eternal Buddha when in fact the only Eternal Buddha that always was and always will be MyoHo RenGe...But I go a step further and claim that once one attains Buddhahood they are indistinguishable from MyoHo RenGe and their present state...

The Daigohonzon is not of Nichiren Shonin's hand...it was not produced at His time , the actual tool to plane and create the end product of wood did not exist during His Time..
And why would He not talk of it ..You have to twist Gosho in order to get any understanding of your paradigm...It makes like there is this super Gohonzon...it really annoys me for i see the damage these concepts due...They Ruin the beauty of what Lotus Buddhism is and all who strived to bring it to our reality.


the whole sumi ink thing has been taken out of context...The way ShoShu uses this is so vague ...None of these shoshu only school of thoughts are plain to see, and so they are twisted , like a side show carny act..smoke and mirrors.

This is the Nichiren section and if i sound harsh it is only because since you got here all you do is try to reinforce these ruinous concepts .
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

Shoho wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:19 am
Minobu wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:37 am
Shoho wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:14 pm Hi.
The reason I said the book by j. Stone is anti shoshu is she makes statements about shoshu doctrine that leave out the reasons why the doctrine is a ‘strong’ interpretation.
I don’t have every English translation of the kanjin honzon sho,
(I have the Nichiren shu and the first gakkai). The shu hasthe part about shijo shogaku, the gakkai one doesn’t.
They both leave out the parts(there are four of them)about kyoji. These parts explain why Shoshu doctrine claims Nichiren is the eternal buddha.

又本門十四品の一経に序正流通有り、涌出品の半品を序分と為し寿量品と前後の二半と此れを正宗と為す、其の余は流通分なり、其の教主を論ずれば始成正覚の釈尊に非ず、所説の法門も亦天地の如し、十界久遠の上に国土世間既に顕われ一念三千殆んど竹膜を隔つ、又迹門並びに前四味・無量義経・涅槃経等の三説は悉く随他意の易信易解・本門は三説の外の難信難解・随自意なり”
観心本尊抄 STN p.154

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in buddhagaya. accordingly, what is preached here differs from what was preached before as clearly as heaven and earth.....

脇士
Basic Meaning: assistants of the buddha on each side
Senses:
Bodhisattvas, arhats, and others who stand at both sides of a Buddha.

始成正覺
Basic Meaning: first attainment of enlightenment
Senses:
The enlightenment of the Buddha 成正覺 under the Bodhi Tree.

the buddha who preaches here is the eternal buddha, not shakyamuni who attained buddhahood for the first time under the bodhi tree in bodh gaya.
I used spell check for Bodh Gaya
Due to the fact this is all Mahayana teaching , The Lotus Sutra was retrieved by Lord Buddha Nagarjuna from the Ocean Floor with the aid of Nagas.
We also don't adhere to the Theavadian concept of Buddha attaining enlightenment for the first time under The Bohdi Tree. His life , Lord Sakyamuni Buddha is all theatre written and directed by Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And two things here are vital.

Lord Sakyamuni Buddha revealed when exactly He first attained Buddhahood.

And secoundly we all our part and parcel living and dwelling in His universal Mandala through His Dharma Kaya Body...like everyone..is surrounded and being imbued by IT.

Ok so like MyHo RenGE is the Source...The source produces both defilement and enlightenment when IT is neither...

So if someone believes Nichiren Shonin is a direct product of MyoHo RenGe and in fact is the Primordial Buddha "Is OK " No big whoop ...but once you deny Who's Mandala we are in ...you really are going to damage yourself and others around you...For we are in the Palm of Lord MahaVairocana . Who is An Emanation of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha . And one must understand as I am sure Nichiren Shonin knew What exactly is This Mandall of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha's I am talking about...

For moi when i gaze at Nichiren's Signature on my online version of the Shutei gohonzon ...all i have ...propped up on a HP printer covered in the bag it came in , When I gaze at That I see someone as worthy as The other masters and Buddha mentioned on Gohonzon...

It Is His Art and Craft ,A Buddhist Master,,His Life was not Theatre ...
It Was And Is Always ..... Living Buddhist Art.
The Kanjin Honzon Sho explains that this concept is untenable.
It states that when the Shakyamuni that attained enlightenment in India disappears so do all the other Buddhas as well as their lands.
This is the eternal pure land. And there is only one Buddha in a Buddha land.
These ideas regarding Nichirens doctrine came about due to bad doctrines perpetuated by money hungry slanderers.
Gassho
正法
please read my reply to John
The Kanjin Honzon Sho explains that this concept is untenable
I don't know where you stand on this stuff..I think you are here to clear up this farce about Nichiren Shonin being The Buddha of Kuon Ganjo and hopefully debunk the facade surrounding the DaiGohonzon...

that being said

sorry but i have no idea what side of the teaching you are on...your post plays out like you are trying to teach us that Lord Sakyamuni first attained enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree..if you think that then ...well...

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

I take back my whole it's no big whoop about believing in the Kuon Ganjo thing...

i said that in terms you actually understand the truth of what you do and what you are and where you dwell and in Who's Buddha land we all dwell in at this time...there have been other Buddhas and there are more to come...Big Buddha's ...Ones that manifest the Buddha land like what we have..

so like i thought meh it's ok if they need to believe that...but i see i was wrong..
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

But I go a step further and claim that once one attains Buddhahood they are indistinguishable from MyoHo RenGe and their present state...
i would add that MyoHo RenGe is the source but it is neither defiled or enlightened or anything , everything is due to It but it is not what It produces so to speak...

now add compassion to this..." once one attains Buddhahood they are indistinguishable from MyoHo RenGe and their present state "
So A buddha is one with MyoHo RenGe but is imbued with compassion...so it's not exactly just MyoHo RenGe so to speak...

trying to point to something here...

and Nichiren taught that we all are exactly like Him ...He is not something above us or different or special...except He was Living Buddhist ART.
tkp67
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by tkp67 »

Shoho wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:19 am These ideas regarding Nichirens doctrine came about due to bad doctrines perpetuated by money hungry slanderers.
Gassho
正法
I have yet to see where this is taught explicitly opposed to ignorantly assumed according to cause, conditions and capacities. That is to say some people in the west are exposed to the teaching and make their own conclusions without doing due diligence.

I am not doubting there are some people who exploit teachings for monies but since I have no direct evidence of that in my life I simply don't assume this to be the motivator before understanding the true motives involved.

While I appreciate the clarification and personally support these dialogs it might benefit the whole of the Nichiren community to remain topical.

For example this thread is about the history of Daimoku not a declaration of which Nichiren interests propagate the true teaching and which do not.

Once again not to dissuade the critically important information you are providing I simply think that a discussion of that level deserves its own thread..

Hope this finds everyone well.
tkp67
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by tkp67 »

The relationship between Shakyamuni and Nichiren is such that the connection and continuity between them need be properly understood.

Nichiren regards Shakyamuni as both a votary and thus come one but not as a bodhisattva of the earth.

While the buddha of cause and buddha of effect as well as buddha of harvest and buddha of sowing differ their purpose in regards to their recognition of one another isn't Nominalized because of these differences.

Nichiren speaks about the significance of Shakyamuni's existence apart from other buddha and if held against other accepting teachings in his writings there are other dimensions to this relationship.

From the cover letter of the kanjin honzon sho
Cover Letter

Lord Toki I have received the summer kimono, three sumi inksticks, and five writing brushes. I have written down some of my thoughts concerning the true object of worship and I am sending the treatise to you, Ota, Soya and the others. It concerns a very important matter, the purpose of my advent. Only those who are strong in faith and open-minded should be allowed to read it. The treatise contains much criticism and few answers. What it reveals, however , has never been heard of before, and is bound to startle those who read or hear of it. Even if you show it to others, never let three or four persons read it together at a time. In the twenty-two hundred and twenty odd years since the Buddha's passing, the ideas contained in the heart of this treatise have never been revealed before. Despite all the official persecutions befalling me, I expound it now at the beginning of the fifth half-millennium, when the time is ripe for its propagation. I hope those who read it will remain firm in their faith so that both master and disciples can climb Eagle Peak together to pay their respects to Shakyamuni, Taho, and all the other Buddhas in the universe.

With my deep respect,
Nichiren

The twenty-sixth day of the fourth month in the tenth year of Bun'ei (1273).
---> http://nichiren.info/gosho/TrueObjectWorship.htm
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:26 pm
Shoho wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:19 am These ideas regarding Nichirens doctrine came about due to bad doctrines perpetuated by money hungry slanderers.
Gassho
正法
I have yet to see where this is taught explicitly opposed to ignorantly assumed according to cause, conditions and capacities. That is to say some people in the west are exposed to the teaching and make their own conclusions without doing due diligence.

I am not doubting there are some people who exploit teachings for monies but since I have no direct evidence of that in my life I simply don't assume this to be the motivator before understanding the true motives involved.

While I appreciate the clarification and personally support these dialogs it might benefit the whole of the Nichiren community to remain topical.

For example this thread is about the history of Daimoku not a declaration of which Nichiren interests propagate the true teaching and which do not.

Once again not to dissuade the critically important information you are providing I simply think that a discussion of that level deserves its own thread..

Hope this finds everyone well.
dude conversation ...rules about strict format on the forum is passed by at times and the conversation takes turns...
User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 3392
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the history of the daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:33 pm The relationship between Shakyamuni and Nichiren is such that the connection and continuity between them need be properly understood.

Nichiren regards Shakyamuni as both a votary and thus come one but not as a bodhisattva of the earth.

While the buddha of cause and buddha of effect as well as buddha of harvest and buddha of sowing differ their purpose in regards to their recognition of one another isn't Nominalized because of these differences.

Nichiren speaks about the significance of Shakyamuni's existence apart from other buddha and if held against other accepting teachings in his writings there are other dimensions to this relationship.

From the cover letter of the kanjin honzon sho
Cover Letter

Lord Toki I have received the summer kimono, three sumi inksticks, and five writing brushes. I have written down some of my thoughts concerning the true object of worship and I am sending the treatise to you, Ota, Soya and the others. It concerns a very important matter, the purpose of my advent. Only those who are strong in faith and open-minded should be allowed to read it. The treatise contains much criticism and few answers. What it reveals, however , has never been heard of before, and is bound to startle those who read or hear of it. Even if you show it to others, never let three or four persons read it together at a time. In the twenty-two hundred and twenty odd years since the Buddha's passing, the ideas contained in the heart of this treatise have never been revealed before. Despite all the official persecutions befalling me, I expound it now at the beginning of the fifth half-millennium, when the time is ripe for its propagation. I hope those who read it will remain firm in their faith so that both master and disciples can climb Eagle Peak together to pay their respects to Shakyamuni, Taho, and all the other Buddhas in the universe.

With my deep respect,
Nichiren

The twenty-sixth day of the fourth month in the tenth year of Bun'ei (1273).
---> http://nichiren.info/gosho/TrueObjectWorship.htm
So we were talking about this misconception and distorted view about this Buddha of Kuon Ganjo being Nichiren Shonin....no where is that revealed in this cover letter...if you think so ..there are so many false hoops one has to jump through to arrive at this conclusion...

when i used the word coma towards john...it is to all who are under this misconception and the hoops they have to go through to arrive at it...it's like they are in a coma.

so do you believe Nichiren Shonin is the Eternal Buddha of kuon Ganjo .

Or are we practicing under Lord Sakyamuni and that this Gohonzon is the work of MyoHo RenGe because of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha....He realized it and set in motion Lotus Buddhism.

and this is all happened before Lord Sakyamuni Buddha first attained Buddhahood in Goyaku gintengo (i think that is the word to describe the length of time in the Lotus sutra describing when exactly He first attained enlightenment...not under the Bohdi Tree. ..it's the way of Buddhas..
Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”