Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

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Minobu
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by Minobu »

illarraza wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:33 pm
You are too kind Minobu but as Nichiren described himself, I too am not a wise man and am strange, perverse, hated and have an ignorant outlook. Although I may be all these things, as Nichiren states, "the Lotus Sutra is still the greatest of all the sutras."

Mark
Not at all...facts are facts...You have been vital for me..your views and study material knowledge are invaluable at this juncture in our teaching.

you are part and parcel to the uncovering of TRUTH.

You probably made a vow and are aided in inspiration and energy to do what you do.

You have friends in high places , for sure.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

Minobu wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:14 pm
illarraza wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:33 pm
You are too kind Minobu but as Nichiren described himself, I too am not a wise man and am strange, perverse, hated and have an ignorant outlook. Although I may be all these things, as Nichiren states, "the Lotus Sutra is still the greatest of all the sutras."

Mark
Not at all...facts are facts...You have been vital for me..your views and study material knowledge are invaluable at this juncture in our teaching.

you are part and parcel to the uncovering of TRUTH.

You probably made a vow and are aided in inspiration and energy to do what you do.

You have friends in high places , for sure.
And in low places too. I don't discriminate or judge to whom I share the Great Law. It hurts me that many don't believe the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren nd you know who they are. I can't respond to the foolishness of so many who think Nichiren is the Original Eternal True Buddha despite the Five Major Works and the entire canon of Nichiren. I can't respond to the many who think such works as the True Entity of Life and Ongi Kuden are written by Nichiren. It is as sad state of affairs. Again, I thank you for your kind words.

Mark
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

Nichiren did not doubt that anyone who encountered the lotus sutra, through direct or inverse relationship, would achieve buddhahood. Rightly there is mystery shrouded in this description but it is as perfect as the law it is based upon. Capacity, condition and cause dictates the rate at which this is accomplished, and once again rightly so. The law is perfect. While the lotus and those who have helped propagated may be misrepresented by others the mystical law itself cannot be so easily perverted. The doorway is faith. Faith in the law that is product of sentience. It is reflected in words the law is not created by them nor can it be destroyed by them. Only the seeds they are meant to sow. The law itself remains.


edit: cleaned up for readability
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:43 am Nichiren did not doubt that anyone who encountered the lotus sutra, through direct or inverse relationship, would achieve buddhahood. Rightly there is mystery shrouded in this description but it is as perfect as the law it is based upon. Capacity, condition and cause dictates the rate at which this is accomplished, and once again rightly so. The law is perfect. While the lotus and those who have helped propagated may be misrepresented by others the mystical law itself cannot be so easily perverted. The doorway is faith. Faith in the law that is product of sentience. It is reflected in words the law is not created by them nor can it be destroyed by them. Only the seeds they are meant to sow. The law itself remains.


edit: cleaned up for readability
Here is what Nichiren teaches:

"Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers." - Nichiren

“They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing slanderers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucius, they beat their parents’ heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.”

and

"For persons of the Tendai Lotus school to chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo themselves and yet give their approval when others repeat the Nembutsu would be strange enough. Yet not only do they fail to remonstrate with them, but they criticize one who does confront the Nembutsu school, which is strange indeed!"

and

"Now you should make a great vow and pray for your next life. If you are disbelieving or slander the correct teaching even in the slightest, you will certainly fall into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. Suppose there is a ship that sails on the open sea. Though the ship is stoutly built, if it is flooded by a leak, those on the ship are sure to drown together. Though the embankment between rice fields is firm, if there is an ant hole in it, then surely, in the long run, it will not remain full of water. Bail the seawater of slander and disbelief out of the ship of your life, and solidify the embankments of your faith. If a believer’s offense is slight, overlook it, and lead that person to obtain benefits. If it is serious, encourage him to strengthen his faith so that he can expiate the sin."

and

"In the same way, the renegade disciples say, “Though the priest Nichiren is our teacher, he is too forceful. We will spread the Lotus Sutra in a more peaceful way.” In so asserting, they are being as ridiculous as fireflies laughing at the sun and moon, an anthill belittling Mount Hua, wells and brooks despising the river and the ocean, or a magpie mocking a phoenix. Namu-myoho-renge-kyo."

and

"Daigaku and Uemon no Tayū had their prayers answered because they followed my advice. Hakiri seems to believe my teachings, but he ignored my suggestions about his lawsuit, and so I have been concerned about its progress. Some good seems to have come of it, perhaps because I warned him that he would lose unless he followed my advice. But because he did not listen to the extent I had hoped, the outcome has been less fruitful than he expected.

If lay believers and their teacher pray with differing minds, their prayers will be as futile as trying to kindle a fire on water. Even if they pray with one mind, their prayers will go unanswered if they have long made the error of attacking greater teachings with lesser ones. Eventually, both lay believers and their teacher will be ruined."

and

“If there are those who possess differing ideas concerning the three treasures, then truly you should know that these people can no longer hope to take refuge in, or rely upon, the three pure treasures. They will never gain benefit from any of the precepts, and in the end, they will fail to obtain the fruits of the voice-hearer, the cause-awakened one, or the bodhisattva.”

and

"In that age there will be evil monks who will steal this sutra and divide it into many parts, losing the color, scent, and flavor of the correct teaching that it contains. These evil men will read and recite this sutra, but they will ignore and put aside the profound and vital principles that the Thus Come One has expounded in it and replace them with ornate rhetoric and meaningless talk. They will tear off the first part of the sutra and stick it on at the end, tear off the end and put it at the beginning, put the end and the beginning in the middle and the middle at the beginning or the end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil.”

Therefore, it is not difficult to understand that without a correct faith how one may develop a resistance to Nichiren's exemplary practice.

"Among my disciples, those who think themselves well versed in Buddhism are the ones who make errors. Namu-myoho-renge-kyo is the heart of the Lotus Sutra. It is like the soul of a person. To revere another teaching as its equal is to be like a consort who is married to two emperors, or who secretly commits adultery with a minister or a humble subject. It can only be a cause for disaster

and

"Now I, Nichiren, understand these things because of what I myself have undergone. But even if there are those among my disciples who understand them, they fear the accusations of the times; believing that their lives, which are as frail as dew, are in fact to be relied upon, they backslide, keep their beliefs hidden in their hearts, or behave in other such ways."

and

"But if any of Nichiren’s disciples disrupt the unity of many in body but one in mind, they would be like warriors who destroy their own castle from within."

and

"However, there is a difference if one chants the daimoku while acting against the intent of this sutra."

and

"Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another. All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense."

and

"In the first five hundred years of the Former Day of the Law following the Buddha’s passing, only Hinayana teachings spread, while in the next five hundred years, provisional Mahayana teachings spread. The thousand years of the Middle Day of the Law saw the rise of the theoretical teaching. In the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law, only the essential teaching spreads, but even so, the theoretical teaching should not be discarded. Nowhere in the entire Lotus Sutra do we find a passage suggesting that we should discard the first fourteen chapters, which comprise the theoretical teaching. When we distinguish between the theoretical and the essential teachings on the basis of the threefold classification of the entire body of the Buddha’s teachings, the pre-Lotus Sutra teachings were to be spread in the Former Day, and the theoretical teaching, in the Middle Day, but the Latter Day is the time to propagate the essential teaching. In the present period the essential teaching is primary, while the theoretical teaching is subordinate. But those who therefore discard the latter, saying it is not the way to enlightenment, and believe only in the former, have not yet understood the doctrine of Nichiren’s true intention. Theirs is a completely distorted view.

This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by the heavenly devil, or Pāpīyas, and will topple others along with themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach this doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do. If they do, Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, Shakyamuni’s emanations throughout the ten directions, and the ten demon daughters will protect them. Yet, for all that, [some people associated with Ōta Jōmyō distort the teaching]. I cannot fathom what could be in their minds."

Mark
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

"It hurts me that many don't believe the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren and you know who they are."

Why?

In order to disbelieve in the sutra it has to be encountered. Once the sutra is encountered that person will eventually achieve buddhahood. According to the teachings previously they could not.

At this point isn't doubt in these seeds the doubt Nichiren spoke against?

:anjali:
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:14 pm "It hurts me that many don't believe the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren and you know who they are."

Why?

In order to disbelieve in the sutra it has to be encountered. Once the sutra is encountered that person will eventually achieve buddhahood. According to the teachings previously they could not.

At this point isn't doubt in these seeds the doubt Nichiren spoke against?

:anjali:
Wouldn't you want those people to attain Buddhahood in this life or the next? Certainly Nichiren didn't write these warnings for those who will quickly attain Buddhaood. Those who went against Bodhisattva Neverdespise, after they repented, did indeed attain Buddhahood but only after spending 1000 kalpas in the Avici Hell. How much worse those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo but go against the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren. I pray, as Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter, that the people rapidly achieve the Buddha Body (rapidly attain Buddhahood). Please read again Nichiren's admonitions for those who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo during his lifetime. The same goes for the people of today. Ignore the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's teachings at your own peril.

Mark
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:32 pm
tkp67 wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:14 pm "It hurts me that many don't believe the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren and you know who they are."

Why?

In order to disbelieve in the sutra it has to be encountered. Once the sutra is encountered that person will eventually achieve buddhahood. According to the teachings previously they could not.

At this point isn't doubt in these seeds the doubt Nichiren spoke against?

:anjali:
Wouldn't you want those people to attain Buddhahood in this life or the next? Certainly Nichiren didn't write these warnings for those who will quickly attain Buddhaood. Those who went against Bodhisattva Neverdespise, after they repented, did indeed attain Buddhahood but only after spending 1000 kalpas in the Avici Hell. How much worse those who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo but go against the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren. I pray, as Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter, that the people rapidly achieve the Buddha Body (rapidly attain Buddhahood). Please read again Nichiren's admonitions for those who chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo during his lifetime. The same goes for the people of today. Ignore the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's teachings at your own peril.

Mark
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/18

The Benefits of Responding with Joy

Neverdespise was never hurt and the buddha was never attached to his own teachings

One can shakubuku with joy and according to the capacities, causes and conditions of those you encounter. Of course your capacity, conditions and causes also come into play here.

The wrath of a parent doesn't move a child if the bond of compassionate loving kindness is not the perceived foundation of the relationship.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

Try the forceful practices. You'll like it!

"Moreover, the “Expedient Means” chapter describes how the five thousand persons of overbearing arrogance withdrew from the assembly. They did so after hearing the Buddha make the concise replacement of the three vehicles with the one vehicle, and when the Buddha was about to begin making the expanded replacement of the three vehicles with the one vehicle. At that time, the Buddha used his power to influence them in such a way that they rose from their seats and withdrew. Later, through the Nirvana Sutra and the four ranks of bodhisattvas, the Buddha made it possible for these persons to achieve enlightenment in their present existence.

On the other hand, in the Non-Substantiality of All Phenomena Sutra it is recorded that Bodhisattva Root of Joy, addressing the monk Superior Intent, forced him to listen to the Mahayana teachings, causing him to speak slanderously of such teachings [and thus create a reverse relationship with them]. With regard to these two differing incidents, the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai explains that “the Thus Come One Shakyamuni was exercising the virtue of compassion in causing them to withdraw, while Bodhisattva Root of Joy was exercising the virtue of pity in forcing the monk to listen.”

The meaning of this passage is that the Buddha was moved by compassion and for the moment put aside thoughts of the later happiness of the five thousand persons. He could not bear to see them slander the Lotus Sutra and suffer the pain of falling into hell, and therefore he inspired them to withdraw from the assembly. It was like the case of a mother who knows that her child is sick but cannot bring herself to inflict suffering on the child, and therefore does not treat the child quickly with moxibustion. In the case of Bodhisattva Root of Joy, he was moved by pity. He did not mind that the person he was addressing would suffer pain for a time, but thought only of that person’s eventual happiness. Therefore he forced the person to listen to the Mahayana teachings. It was like the case of a pitying father who, seeing that his child is ill, is not deterred by the fact that the child may undergo temporary suffering but is concerned only for the child’s eventual welfare. Therefore he applies the treatment of moxibustion." - On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra

"The Great Teacher Dengyō was the patriarch of both esoteric and exoteric Buddhism in Japan. In his Outstanding Principles he writes: “The sutras that the other schools are based upon give expression in a certain measure to the mother-like nature of the Buddha. But they convey only a sense of love and are lacking in a sense of fatherly sternness. It is only the Tendai Lotus school that combines a sense of both love and sternness. The Lotus Sutra is ‘father of all sages, worthies, those still learning, those who have completed their learning, and those who set their minds on becoming bodhisattvas.’” - The Opening of the Eyes

Some people are not predisposed to performing the forceful practices. They are gentle and pliant. Nichiren teaches that for such persons it is enough to chant the Daimoku and SUPPORT those who do perform shakubuku (the forceful practices).

Mark
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

One can practice forceful practice using a line of questioning/reasoning. One can make a point compassionately, taking some of the sting out of the force. Doesn't mean one need be any less persistent in one's efforts. What seed does one seek to sow?
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Minobu
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by Minobu »

The gods must have aided the first wave of Shakkabukku after WWII .
The success was phenomenal . Sustaining this method though might not be a good idea because there is enough people who can just be examples now to learn and emulate from.

In our society now with all the different religions vying for propagation with little or no actual relief from suffering , has people closing down on their capacity to try something different.

On the other hand it has never been a better time to introduce new ideas to people who have not heard NMRK .

With global communication at an all time high , talk is cheap.
You need to make yourself happy and show others. All my benefits from curing my father to financial help, has arrived when i wanted this practice to work for me in order to show off!

I think a combination of shoju and shakkabukku at the same time finding the middle way in this endeavour is not such a bad idea.


Then again if you are really keeping up a focused practice where it is your main focus of the day , for sure you will meet people where you will know a shakkabukku method is better for this person than shoju and vice versa.
But i like the idea of the middle way...

life is fluid and changes are made through steady focused practice.
Everything is change...

We have a few tools at our disposal combining two of them is not such a bad thing.

so combined is like gentle shakkabukku..

instead of explaining that this is the only way, let them learn that through time and a practice. Shoju them and shakkabukku them as they practice.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:28 pm One can practice forceful practice using a line of questioning/reasoning. One can make a point compassionately, taking some of the sting out of the force. Doesn't mean one need be any less persistent in one's efforts. What seed does one seek to sow?
Seeds without peer.

It is important to determine how and when the gentle [shoju] and forceful preaching [shakubuku] methods are to be performed. Nichiren writes:

"There are monks who preach the Dharma in various ways, but still they are not able to utter 'the lion's roar' and refute evil persons who deny the Dharma. Monks of this kind can bring no merit either to themselves or to the populace. You should realize that they are in fact shirkers and idlers. Though they are careful in observing the precepts and maintain spotless conduct, you should realize that they are incapable of attaining Buddhahood." (Opening of the Eyes)

The SGI, the Nichiren Shu, and the Nichiren Shoshu argue that the shoju method is the predominant preaching method to be employed at this time in the USA because the USA is merely a passively evil country:

"When the country is full of ignorant or evil persons, then shoju is the primary method to be applied, as described in the Anrakugyo chapter. But at a time when there are many persons of perverse views who slander the Law, then shakubuku should come first, as described in the Fukyo chapter." (ibid)

"...This is because there are two kinds of countries, the country that is passively evil, and the kind that actively seeks to destroy the Law. We must consider carefully to which category Japan at the present time belongs."(ibid).

They cite as proof that the USA is merely passively evil because we are allowed to practice and spread the True Law throughout the United States.

On the other hand, Nichiren teaches in the Gift of Rice:

"The sixth volume of the Lotus Sutra reads, 'No affairs of life or work are in any way different from the ultimate reality'"

and

"The true path of life lies in the affairs of this world."

Here are some ways the USA is actively evil: 1). It is engaged in war after war. 2). It has the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. 3). It is the greatest source of global pollution. 4). It is the most glaring example of greed is good and other perverse views 5). It is the most powerful Christian country in the world. Since, at the very least, the USA has killed, is killing, and will kill many potential votaries of the Lotus Sutra, it actively seeks to destroy the Law.

Nichiren teaches that, if we are incapable of uttering the lion's roar, we will fail to attain Buddhahood.

"When the time is right to propagate the supreme teaching, the provisional teachings become enemies. If they are a source of confusion, they must be thoroughly refuted from the standpoint of the true teaching. Of the two types of practice, this is shakubuku, the practice of the Lotus Sutra. With good reason, T-ien-t'ai stated: 'The practice of the Lotus Sutra is shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.' The four easy practices in the Anrakugyo chapter are shoju. To carry them out in this age would be as foolish as sowing seeds in winter and expecting to reap the harvest in spring." (On Practicing the Buddha's Teachings)

There are three aspects to attaining Buddhahood through the power of the Lotus Sutra. The first is faith, the second is practice, and the third is study. Practice encompasses practice for oneself and practice for others. There are two methods of practice for others, the shoju method (gentle approach) and the shakabuku method (forceful approach). We can liken the two approaches to the gentle compassion of a mother and the strict compassion of a father. If a child's problem behavior is not overly serious the mother, through gentle caring and guidance can assist the child. If a child's problem behavior is totally out of control, the child carrying a gun to school, for example, the strict and stern admonishments of a father is appropriate to alter the destructive course of the child. The two methods of propagation are like this.

In the world, during the times of Shoho (~ 3000-2000 years ago) and Zoho (~ 2000-1000 years ago), society and individuals (as a whole) exhibited only mildly abherent and abhorant behaviors, so the shoju method was the principle and appropriate method to employ to awaken the people. From approximately 1000 years ago to the present, individuals and society became so steeped in the Three Poisons (Anger, Avarice and Stupidity) that shakabuku became the principle and appropriate method of propagation.

Now, in widely propagating the Buddhist teachings and bringing salvation to all people, one must first take into consideration the teaching, the capacity of the people, the time, the country, and the sequence of propagation. The reason is as follows. In terms of the time, there are the periods of the Former, the Middle, and the Latter Days of the Law, and in terms of the teachings, there are the Hinayana and the Mahayana doctrines. In terms of the practices to be adopted, there are shoju and shakubuku. It is a mistake to practice shakubuku at a time when shoju is called for, and equally erroneous to practice shoju when shakubuku is appropriate. The first thing to be determined, therefore, is whether the present period is the time for shoju or the time for shakubuku.

“Shoju is to be practiced when throughout the entire country only the Lotus Sutra has spread, and when there is not even a single misguided teacher expounding erroneous doctrines. At such a time, one may retire to the mountain forests, practice meditation, or carry out the five, the six, or the ten practices. But the time for shakubuku is very different from this. It is a time when many different sutras and teachings spring up here and there like so many orchids and chrysanthemums, when the various schools command a large following and enjoy renown, when truth and error stand shoulder to shoulder, and when Mahayana and Hinayana dispute which is superior. At such a time, one must set aside all other affairs and devote one’s attention to rebuking slander of the correct teaching. This is the practice of shakubuku.

“If, failing to understand this principle, one were to practice shoju or shakubuku at an inappropriate time, then not only would one be unable to attain Buddhahood, but one would fall into the evil paths. This is firmly laid down in the Lotus and Nirvana sutras, and is also clearly stated in the commentaries by T’ien-t’ai and Miao-lo. It is, in fact, an important principle of Buddhist practice.

“We may compare these two kinds of practice to the two ways of the civil and the military used in governing a nation. There is a time when military measures should take precedence, and a time when civil measures ought to be emphasized. When the world is at peace and calm prevails within the country, then civil measures should take precedence. But when the barbarian tribes to the east, south, west, and north, fired by wild ambitions, rise up like hornets, then military measures should come first.

Though one may understand the importance of both civil and military arts, if one does not understand the time, donning armor and taking up weapons when all countries are calm and peaceful and there is no trouble anywhere throughout the world, then one’s actions will be wrong. On the other hand, one who lays aside one’s weapons on the battlefield when enemies are marching against one’s ruler and instead takes up a writing brush and inkstone is likewise failing to act in accordance with the time.

“The methods of shoju and shakubuku are also like this. When the correct teaching alone is propagated and there are no erroneous doctrines or misguided teachers, then one may enter the deep valleys and live in quiet contentment, devoting one’s time to reciting and copying the sutra and to the practice of meditation. This is like taking up a writing brush and inkstone when the world is at peace. But when there are provisional schools or slanderers of the correct teaching in the country, then it is time to set aside other matters and devote oneself to rebuking slander. This is like taking up weapons on the battlefield.

“Therefore, the Great Teacher Chang-an in his commentary on the Nirvana Sutra states: ‘In past times the age was peaceful, and the Law spread throughout the country. At that time it was proper to observe the precepts and not to carry staves. But now the age is perilous, and the Law is overshadowed. Therefore, it is proper to carry staves and to disregard the precepts. If both past and present were perilous times, then it would be proper to carry staves in both periods. And if both past and present were peaceful times, then it would be proper to observe the precepts in both of them. You should let your choices be fitting and never adhere solely to one or the other.’ The meaning of this passage of commentary is perfectly clear.

“In past times the world was honest, people were upright, and there were no erroneous teachings or erroneous doctrines. Therefore, one could behave in a proper manner and carry out one’s religious practices peacefully and amicably. There was no need to take up staves and berate others, no occasion to attack erroneous teachings.

“But the present age is a defiled one. Because the minds of people are warped and twisted, and provisional teachings and slander alone abound, the correct teaching cannot prevail. In times like these, it is useless to practice the reading, reciting, and copying [of the Lotus Sutra] or to devote oneself to the methods and practices of meditation. One should practice only the shakubuku method of propagation, and if one has the capacity, use one’s influence and authority to destroy slander of the correct teaching, and one’s knowledge of the teachings to refute erroneous doctrines.

“As we have seen, it is said that one should let one’s choices be fitting and never adhere solely to one or the other. Therefore, we must look at the world today and consider whether ours is a country in which only the correct doctrine prevails, or a country in which erroneous doctrines flourish." -- A Sage and an Unenlightened Man

"Shoju is to practiced when throughout the entire country only the Lotus Sutra has spread, and when there is not even a single misguided teacher expounding erroneous doctrines.

We live in a horrendous time.

In his treatise, The Establishment of the Right Law to Save the Country, Nichiren states:

"We should rather eliminate heretical teachings than perform ten thousand prayers."

"But the present age is a defiled one. Because the minds of people are warped and twisted, and provisional teachings and slander alone abound, the True Law cannot prevail. In times like these, it is useless to practice the reading, reciting and copying [of the Lotus Sutra] or to devote oneselves to the methods and practices of meditation. One should practice ONLY shakabuku, and if one has the capacity, use his influence and authority to destroy slander of the Law, and his knowledge of teachings to refute erroneous doctrines."(ibid).

The Daishonin states in another Gosho, "All teachings are ultimately the revelation of Buddhist truth". Shakabuku is the method for refuting teachings when they are a source of slander or confusion. Included among these teachings are the the omniscience of science and Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and occult theology. All these teachings lead to suffering and their adherents all assert that their teachings are equal or superior to those of the Lotus Sutra. These teachings and their adherents must be taken severely to task, as Aryasinha did, even at the cost of his life. Do you think Aryasinha lost his life for practicing shoju?

There is a balance between the preservation of the purity of the teachings and a liberal interpretation of the teachings in order to convince others to convert. If you compromise the teachings in your eagerness to be everything to everybody, you end up being nothing to nobody. in effect you are doing neither shoju nor shakabuku but merely destroying the teachings. Is this not the case with the Soka Gakkai and the Nichiren Shu today?

In those few cases when a person is either readily amenable to the teachings of the Lotus Sutra or when a Lotus Sutra adherent's faith and practice is basically correct and one's faults are not overly serious, no strict admonishments are necessary. In this case, the shoju method may be employed. Having faith in Jesus while praying to the Gohonzon, is a serious transgression. Another example is studying the Human Revolution at the expense of studying the Lotus Sutra.

Speaking about Brahamanism, Nichiren writes:

"Erroneous teachings such as these are too numerous to be counted. Their adherents pay as much respect and honor to the teachers who propounded them as the various deities pay to the God Taishaku or the court ministers pay to the ruler of the empire But not a single person who adheres to these ninety five higher or lower teachings ever escape from the cycle of birth and death." (Opening of the Eyes)

In reference to Taoists he declares:

"But since such a man knows nothing about the past or the future, he can not assist his parents, his sovereign or his teacher in making provisions for their future lives, and he is therefore guilty of failing to repay the debt he owes them. Such a person is not a true wise man or sage."(ibid)

We would never employ gentle practices with the Hindu or Taoist adherents, why should we with Christian adherents?

The Lotus Sutra states, "In the whole universe there are not even two vehicles, how much less a third."(LS Ch. 2).

Nichiren Daishonin was a very strict teacher out of great compassion for humanity. In one of his Five Major Writings, "Establishing the Right Law to Save the Country", he teaches that the cause of personal, societal, and environmental problems are mistaken ideas, false views, false religions, and false beliefs. He asserted, whether to use one or the other methods (gentle or assertive), depends not on the inborn capacity of the individual, not on the land, and not on the order of propagation [of the teachings] but rather on the time and the teachings themselves. During the Former and Middle Days, one gained emancipation through shoju but today in Mappo, the defiled degenerate age, one gains emancipation through the shakabuku method. Only the most powerful medicine will do for the most serious illnesses: Nuclear weapons, war having killed hundreds of millions of people in the twentieth century alone, pollution, famine, , massive earthquakes, floods, nuclear accidents, new deadly strains of disease, the destruction of the rain forests, massive and growing dead zones in the sea..., problems one would expect to encounter in this Defiled Age. Nichiren Daishonin taught these are caused by the rampancy of misleading philosophies and religions incapable of transforming the Three Poisons [Greed, Anger, and Animality] into the Three Noble Attributes of the Buddha, Dharma Body, wisdom, and emancipation.

Nichiren performed the forceful practices towards all save for his own faithful disciples and believers. The heretical sectarians of his day and even some of his "adherents" arrogantly admonished him to cease and desist, that his methods were too confrontational, too difficult to practice. In response to such criticism, he wrote:

"Though I may be a person of little ability, I have reverently given myself to the study of the Mahayana. A blue fly, if it clings to the tail of a thoroughbred horse, can travel ten thousand miles....I was born as the son of the one Buddha, Shakyamuni and I serve the king of scriptures, the Lotus Sutra. How could I observe the decline of the Buddhist Law and not be filled with emotions of pity and distress." (Establishing the Right Law for the Peace of the Land)

The provisional Buddhist teachings have sprouted here and there like so many weeds, even in the United States. There are more than one thousand provisional Buddhist denominations and permutations and their evil doctrines are embraced by millions of believers or supporters. Even worse, radical Christian fundamentalism and Bibleism is spreading to all corners of the heartland, its adherents actively working to stifle the sowing of the seeds of Myoho and to destroy our basic human rights of free speech and freedom of religion.

Let us forcefully awaken them to the best of our ability, teaching them of the manifest evil of their misguided beliefs and the workings of the Law of Cause and Effect. It is not the time to employ the gentle practices. We must assiduously practice shakabuku.
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Minobu
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by Minobu »

So like this went wooosh over me head !!!

The word forcefull with preaching instead of shakkabuku.. I had to suffer the pains of hell because enclycopedia britannia said it translated into break and subdue...

Now !!! Ta very Much !!! i have to suffer forceful preaching...GREAT!!!!..

i even think I managed to post the words ...here let me check...and this is time real....not a joke...or an agenda or weirdness...just the true me being flabbergasted..in real time...Nope did not use it...but i did manage to blurp blurp ( thats taken from Alex in Clockwork Orange when he kicked the shite outta an old man)...but i digress....and have lots of time cause me government promised me money to stay at home and troll forums. so i digress again....
i managed to blurp blurp outta me brain "focused practice."..never used those words before....very cool i must say....


So when did forceful preaching become the new word to be used . It's a euphemism , hopefully people see it that way...

and can't we just let lie the whole break and subdue force full preaching ...

actually for me break and subdue is and always has been for me....not that those are Nichiren shonin's words but break and subdue is thus...


you break the person's view of life with a close prqactice of up to like your whole day for the person to change...

like you get them to break their habit and make a daily habit of solid gold practice....

and you like stay focused 24/7 for this sentient to get that first big ..."benefit" ...and he is broken...


then the subdue part is keeping them on track with still daily attention to them...

and i daily continued at least one gongyo session with them so they subdue their being "Hell Bent" on ruining their lives ..

and not practicing for some reason or other..

and no matter what happens when encounter ""Change"

You need to help them see there is no reason to stop practicing...You need to subdue those thoughts...The only way then at that time is begging them to try one more gongyo with you...


It's all down in the dirt growth stuff mixed with drought and blight etc.

and being part of the Universe's Immunization process to save ourselves from ourselves..


Happy Covd19 Global ReSet...


Love Love Love....All You need is Love....all together now......
dude
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by dude »

nam myoho renge kyo
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

Throwing up great amounts of supporting doctrine isn't compassionate if people can't digest and understand it. At best it might shame those of lower capacity who have to assume that it is correct. They have to be subject to shame for it to work. This will not convert the incorrigible. It assumes Nichiren propagated his teachings in the same way, which he did not.

If that method was reasonable he wouldn't have need reveal the Daimoku. This can be reasonably unpacked.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:20 pm Throwing up great amounts of supporting doctrine isn't compassionate if people can't digest and understand it. At best it might shame those of lower capacity who have to assume that it is correct. They have to be subject to shame for it to work. This will not convert the incorrigible. It assumes Nichiren propagated his teachings in the same way, which he did not.

If that method was reasonable he wouldn't have need reveal the Daimoku. This can be reasonably unpacked.
These are Nichiren's teachings. Do you think he was like some I know who whose words fail to meet their actions, those who talk the talk but fail to walk the walk? Is this simply your opinion or are there Sutra passages and commentaries of Nichiren that support your viewpoint?

Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist. He relied solely on the sutras and commentaries of the great sages such as Nan Yuah, Tientai, and Dengyo (because they taught with Sutra in hand). His earliest credo was from the Great Nirvana Sutra....."Trust the Dharma, do not trust human teachers. Trust the wisdom (ofthe Buddha) do not trust human consciousness. Trust the sutras of final meaning, do not trust the sutras of non-final meaning."

Regarding your opinion, Nichiren teaches,

"Answer: I do not state personal opinions, but merely hold up the mirror of the sutras and commentaries so that the slanderers of the Law may see their ugly faces reflected there and perceive their errors. But if they are incurably “blind,” it is beyond my power."

"The truth of Buddhism has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. All that is important is whether a belief is in accord with the scriptures. And, further, the golden words of the Buddha have already informed us that in the age of the Latter Day of the Law those who uphold the Right Dharma would be few in number. Thus the Nirvana Sutra says that "those who uphold the Right Dharma are as few as the grains of earth on a fingernail, and those that slander the Dharma are as numerous as the earth in of all the ten directions" .

Mark
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:10 pm
tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:20 pm Throwing up great amounts of supporting doctrine isn't compassionate if people can't digest and understand it. At best it might shame those of lower capacity who have to assume that it is correct. They have to be subject to shame for it to work. This will not convert the incorrigible. It assumes Nichiren propagated his teachings in the same way, which he did not.

If that method was reasonable he wouldn't have need reveal the Daimoku. This can be reasonably unpacked.
These are Nichiren's teachings. Do you think he was like some I know who whose words fail to meet their actions, those who talk the talk but fail to walk the walk? Is this simply your opinion or are there Sutra passages and commentaries of Nichiren that support your viewpoint?

Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist. He relied solely on the sutras and commentaries of the great sages such as Nan Yuah, Tientai, and Dengyo (because they taught with Sutra in hand). His earliest credo was from the Great Nirvana Sutra....."Trust the Dharma, do not trust human teachers. Trust the wisdom (ofthe Buddha) do not trust human consciousness. Trust the sutras of final meaning, do not trust the sutras of non-final meaning."

Regarding your opinion, Nichiren teaches,

"Answer: I do not state personal opinions, but merely hold up the mirror of the sutras and commentaries so that the slanderers of the Law may see their ugly faces reflected there and perceive their errors. But if they are incurably “blind,” it is beyond my power."

"The truth of Buddhism has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. All that is important is whether a belief is in accord with the scriptures. And, further, the golden words of the Buddha have already informed us that in the age of the Latter Day of the Law those who uphold the Right Dharma would be few in number. Thus the Nirvana Sutra says that "those who uphold the Right Dharma are as few as the grains of earth on a fingernail, and those that slander the Dharma are as numerous as the earth in of all the ten directions" .

Mark
You ignored the comment regarding the Daimoku, the very heart of Nichiren's teachings. Why?

If you don't understand the Daimoku itself is both Shoju and Shakubuku without further intervention then you deny the teachings to those of lesser capacity because you base their capacity on your own. Nichiren was far more compassionate than that. Thus the Daimoku. Not every Gosho was a discourse.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:45 pm
illarraza wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:10 pm
tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:20 pm Throwing up great amounts of supporting doctrine isn't compassionate if people can't digest and understand it. At best it might shame those of lower capacity who have to assume that it is correct. They have to be subject to shame for it to work. This will not convert the incorrigible. It assumes Nichiren propagated his teachings in the same way, which he did not.

If that method was reasonable he wouldn't have need reveal the Daimoku. This can be reasonably unpacked.
These are Nichiren's teachings. Do you think he was like some I know who whose words fail to meet their actions, those who talk the talk but fail to walk the walk? Is this simply your opinion or are there Sutra passages and commentaries of Nichiren that support your viewpoint?

Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist. He relied solely on the sutras and commentaries of the great sages such as Nan Yuah, Tientai, and Dengyo (because they taught with Sutra in hand). His earliest credo was from the Great Nirvana Sutra....."Trust the Dharma, do not trust human teachers. Trust the wisdom (ofthe Buddha) do not trust human consciousness. Trust the sutras of final meaning, do not trust the sutras of non-final meaning."

Regarding your opinion, Nichiren teaches,

"Answer: I do not state personal opinions, but merely hold up the mirror of the sutras and commentaries so that the slanderers of the Law may see their ugly faces reflected there and perceive their errors. But if they are incurably “blind,” it is beyond my power."

"The truth of Buddhism has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. All that is important is whether a belief is in accord with the scriptures. And, further, the golden words of the Buddha have already informed us that in the age of the Latter Day of the Law those who uphold the Right Dharma would be few in number. Thus the Nirvana Sutra says that "those who uphold the Right Dharma are as few as the grains of earth on a fingernail, and those that slander the Dharma are as numerous as the earth in of all the ten directions" .

Mark
You ignored the comment regarding the Daimoku, the very heart of Nichiren's teachings. Why?

If you don't understand the Daimoku itself is both Shoju and Shakubuku without further intervention then you deny the teachings to those of lesser capacity because you base their capacity on your own. Nichiren was far more compassionate than that. Thus the Daimoku. Not every Gosho was a discourse.
Capacity is much less important than the time. Now is the time for those with both high and low capacity to chant the Daimoku. Are you saying we should ignore Nichiren's hundreds of writings except those that praise the Daimoku?

Again, Nichiren teaches:

“How does one hear, believe in and practice the perfect teaching to attain perfect enlightenment? 'Believing in the perfect teaching means to 'awaken faith through doctrine and make faith the basis of one’s practice.'” -- Nichiren

If the doctrine is flawed, faith will be flawed.

In the True Object of Worship, Nichiren teaches:

“The Sea of all Karmic Hindrances all arise from WRONG THOUGHT: If you desire to repent of them, then sitting upright, think upon reality.” — The True Object of Worship

“It is a rare thing to be born as a human being. And if, having been born as such, you do not do your best to distinguish between the correct doctrine and the incorrect so that in the future you may attain Buddhahood, then you are certainly not fulfilling your true worth as a human being.” — On Prayer

If one believes the prime point of the Lotus Sutra is mentor-disciple, for example, that is wrong thought. The Gohonzon and the scriptures are teacher in Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism. May I suggest that you sit upright and think upon reality.
illarraza
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by illarraza »

I have more to say about your replies to me.

“The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.” (pg. 392) Yui Yoga, for example, practiced by various Nichiren sects is a provisional doctrine. I am implored by Nichiren to refute such Zen and Shingon doctrines that that have infiltrated the Lotus Sutra teachings of Nichiren.

Since I believe in and practice the teachings of Nichiren and I back up what I write with the writings of Nichiren, your criticisms are unwarranted, I believe

Nichiren teaches to the effect that you can chant the Daimoku day and night but if you have hatred for Nichiren (or Nichiren's writings), you will never attain Buddhahood.
tkp67
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by tkp67 »

illarraza wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:41 pm Since I believe in and practice the teachings of Nichiren and I back up what I write with the writings of Nichiren, your criticisms are unwarranted, I believe
The problem is Mark, you don't understand my criticisms so your belief is simply that. A belief. Nichiren was much more than a scriptural Buddhist.

I would be interested in seeing doctrine that says shakubuku via deep discourse of authentic gosho is preferable to daimoku.
narhwal90
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Re: Why is Nichiren Buddhism (or at least its organizations) so dysfunctional?

Post by narhwal90 »

Personally I admire Mark's steadfast determination to practice and demonstration of how it can be done outside the usual schools.
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