Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

bcol01
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Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by bcol01 »

Why can't we just say it once and achieve the state of Buddhahood. I'm trying to understand why the repetition.
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

As for the Lotus Sutra, one may recite the entire sutra of twenty-eight chapters in eight volumes every day; or one may recite only one volume, or one chapter, or one verse, or one phrase, or one word; or one may simply chant the daimoku, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, only once a day, or chant it only once in the course of a lifetime; or hear someone else chant it only once in a lifetime and rejoice in the hearing, or rejoice in hearing the voice of someone else rejoice in the hearing, and so on in this manner to the fiftieth hearer. And if one were to be at the end, even if one’s faith were weak and one’s sense of rejoicing diluted like the frailty of a child of two or three, or the inability of a cow or horse to distinguish before from after, the blessings one would gain would be a hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million times greater than those gained by persons of keen faculties and superior wisdom who study other sutras, persons such as Shāriputra, Maudgalyāyana, Manjushrī, and Maitreya, who had committed to memory the entire texts of the various sutras…
--Nichiren, Expedient Means and Life Span Chapters

I believe your assumptions may need to be adjusted. Your question is asking the wrong thing.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Minobu
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

bcol01 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:56 pm Why can't we just say it once and achieve the state of Buddhahood. I'm trying to understand why the repetition.
If you say Daimoku once ,yes it';s incredible to do so in mappo, but it's just a moment with the Daimoku. By chanting more than once you spend more time with that moment of you and the Daimoku. That incredible world known and shared only by Buddhas.


I think by spending more and more time doing Daimoku our inner qualities as inscribed on Gohonzon are exercised . Then we see result from our effort of time spent with Daimoku and time spent in front of gohonzon doing the prescribed practice .

there are two types of practice...one where you are all over the place "Monkey Mind" and some more concentrated "Samadhi "
Both are beneficial but it seems, to see result from the former ,quantity is the way to go , rather than focused quality.

:soapbox: dems da rules. :rules: :sage:
narhwal90
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by narhwal90 »

It might be that one recitation is enough for eventual realization of buddhahood, whatever that is, but I find I need daily recitation to stay comfortable inside my own head; keep free of judgement, reactivity, fear, likewise to help maintain better equanimity and so on. In addition to the daily recitation, I find maintaining a determined level of study within the Nichiren canon in its various forms and outside also helps withthose things.
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

bcol01 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:56 pm Why can't we just say it once and achieve the state of Buddhahood. I'm trying to understand why the repetition.
Buddhahood is not a static state to be achieved, for one. Buddhahood, is active and dynamic. It is a response to ignorance and suffering.

Repetition of Daimoku is what a buddha does themselves. It may not be literally the chanting of NMRK, but it is the perpetual release of suffering and illumination dispelling ignorance. When we chant Daimoku, we are doing what a Buddha does, albeit at a baby level. As we grow in the Dharma, our expression of Daimoku evolves according to our developing capacity. In the place of practice, the goal is achieved.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
dude
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by dude »

Actually, you don't have to. You can chant it exactly once, and that cause alone implants the seed of enlightenment in your life.
On the other hand, if you want to change your karma which you have accumulated since time without beginning and attain perfect enlightenment in this lifetime, it will take some real doing.
When asked this question, President Ikeda said "It only accords with reason that prolonged tenacious effort would be required."
Nichiren Daishonin states : "Q : How many daimoku does it take to reach enlightenment? A : One is enough. A million is not enough."
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

dude wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:23 am Nichiren Daishonin states : "Q : How many daimoku does it take to reach enlightenment? A : One is enough. A million is not enough."
Do you have a citation for that?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Bois de Santal
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Bois de Santal »

I pretty sure I've read that quote in an article by Niwano - but i'm not sure of it's ultimate provenance.
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Bois de Santal
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Bois de Santal »

Hmm - I looked but couldn't find it. If anything, Niwano did not believe in the merits of chanting too much daimoku because the mind will start to wander. He seems to have been a 'little but often' kind of guy.
mansurhirbi87
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

nice topic. I guess it's related to the same principle of zazen : practice is illumination itself and other things related to it that are in my subconciousness but i can't recall right now

__/\_
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

Yeah, I don't think that quote is Nichiren. For one, it sounds too much like a greeting card. Nichiren did not do hokey. He did Hokke, though. (small chuckle)

TBH, it sounds like it may be adapted from some commentary on Nembutsu.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

Looking at chanting of Daimoku as a repetitive act may be an obstacle to understanding the practice.

To be repetitive suggests a conception of Daimoku as a linear practice - one Daimoku followed by another Daimoku, with each Daimoku being a discrete act. This also speaks to the OP's apparent assumption about attaining Buddhahood as a result of a linear process - what we refer to as the Gradual Path.

The Essential Teaching of the Lotus Sutra is the Round or Complete or Perfect Path. Once entered, the path cannot be lost. This is illustrated by the parable of the poison drum from the Mahaparinirvana Sutra - once one hears the Saddharma (Myoho), one is irreversibly on the path to Buddhahood. It may not be the direct path, but given that this moment is boundless (in a way that we generally conceive of through the convention of time) Buddhahood is inevitable. In fact, having a strong aversion to Saddharma is actually more beneficial than a neutral reaction because its like a snare that digs into the flesh the harder you struggle against it. To have a strong aversion, one also has a commensurate imprint of the Saddharma in the mind. On the other hand, merely joyfully accepting it is profoundly meritorious because one is now infinitely closer to awakening than when one is indifferent or averse to it.

But coming back to this continuous Daimoku, what we are actually referring to is the cultivation based on ichinen sanzen. Ichinen 一念 means single thought-moment, and sanzen 三千 literally translates to "three thousand" but is a reference to the three-fold thousand world system that Shakyamuni Buddha presides over, but more generally, to the boundless realm of dharmas, ie. Everything. This thought moment is Everything, and Everything is this thought moment. One is not the cause of the other. One is not primary to the other. They arise mutually and are in fact indivisible.

The path to complete Buddhahood starts with the introduction to reality - in Zhiyi's explanation, this refers to by the Second of the Six Identities when one hears the Saddharma for the first time (the first stage is that all beings are buddha in principle). Once one hears the Saddharma, one has entered into realm of Buddhahood from the perspective of the Buddha, and practice is the cultivation of this introduction to reality until the understanding is complete and there is not one iota of ignorance about it. Zhiyi explains, referring to Nagarjuna's commentary on the Pancavimsati Sutra, the Dazhidulun, the difference between the beginning (starting practice) and the end (attaining buddhahood) is like the difference between the flame that lights with a spark and the flame as it burns - is the flame different or the same? It is both different and the same, not different and not the same.

Daimoku practice is the complete entry into the boundless, timeless ichinen sanzen.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Minobu
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Minobu »

Hi people .

I have this memory of a gosho line, it might be authentique Gosho or it might be fake...it's a goodie though.

Nichiren Daishonin said somewhere (I think)something about dying something with indigo blue dye ..you need to dye it over and over again to get the desired effect of color. He likened that to a constant daily practice....(I Think)

still some may argue fake gosho are ok...in this case it's a great metaphor no matter who wrote it in Nichiren Daishonin's name.
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

From the writing, "Hell is the land of tranquil light." Nichiren quotes Zhiyi:
After all, even if one looks for hell in some faraway place, the iron rods of the wardens of hell and the accusing cries of the demon guards do not exist apart from one. This teaching is of prime importance, but I will impart it to you just as Bodhisattva Manjushrī explained the secret teaching of the attainment of Buddhahood in one’s present form to the dragon king’s daughter. After hearing it, strive even more earnestly in faith. One who, on hearing the teachings of the Lotus Sutra, makes even greater efforts in faith is a true seeker of the way. T’ien-t’ai states, “From the indigo, an even deeper blue.” This passage means that, if one dyes something repeatedly in indigo, it becomes even bluer than the indigo leaves. The Lotus Sutra is like the indigo, and the strength of one’s practice is like the deepening blue.
He refers to the metaphor in a couple other letters encouraging practice.

Its a reference to a quote from the Mohezhikuan:
The [Buddhist Dharma] teachings are vast and sublime; they shine forth spontaneously with the truth of Heaven, [and Chih-i’s understanding of it is] like the blue from an indigo plant.
Translation is a little bit different.

This passage about the indigo plant is a reference to a writing by Xunzi (Xun Kuang, Hsun tzu), a Confucian Scholar. Swanson quotes Xunzi in full in the footnotes:
The gentleman says: Learning should never cease. Blue comes from the indigo plant but is bluer than the plant itself. Ice is made of water but is colder than water ever is…. If the gentleman studies widely and each day examines himself, his wisdom will become clear and his conduct be without fault. If you do not climb a high mountain, you will not comprehend the highness of the heavens; if you do not look down into a deep valley, you will not know the depth of the earth; and if you do not hear the words handed down from the ancient kings, you will not understand the greatness of learning.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
Jonatan
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Jonatan »

Hola soy nuevo! Soy de Argentina, he leído un montón de temas, estoy usando el traductor de Google, a veces se dificulta la comprensión, pero solo un poco.
Mi nombre es jonatan, fuí miembro de soka gakkai.
Respecto al tema de la repetición del daimoku.
El el gosho carta a Nike, también lo explica.
Saludos desde Argentina.
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Queequeg
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Queequeg »

Welcome, Jonatan.

Unfortunately, I only know enough Spanish to kind of read that, and not enough to respond in Spanish.

I think he is directing us to Letter to Niike.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

How long does it take for an apple to fall from a tree?
All season long, or just one second?
Depending on your ripened karma,
you could become a buddha
after hearing it chanted just one time.
But if you are not to that point yet,
it will take while longer.
.
.
.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
Jonatan
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Jonatan »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:58 pm Welcome, Jonatan.

Unfortunately, I only know enough Spanish to kind of read that, and not enough to respond in Spanish.

I think he is directing us to Letter to Niike.
No hay problema, sólo respondan en inglés, google traduce todas respuestas de manera automática.
He leido temas completos, como por ejemplo, si era necesario o no...wooo fueron varias páginas de lectura.muchas gracias.
Jonatan
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Jonatan »

Ok, en que pensamos mientras cantamos daimoku??
Concentración mente en blanco?
Lograr objetivos?
Paz del mundo y felicidad para todos?
Y se me aburro,de tanto repetir? Bostezar y distraerse?.
Yo trato de sentir cada ideograma, a veces lo hago por 40 minutos.
Otra veces, solo tres veces.
Díganme ustedes en que piensan,como les ah funcionado de la mejor manera? Saludos desde Argentina.
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Shiva
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Re: Why do we have to do continuous daimoku?

Post by Shiva »

Jonatan wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:03 pm Ok, en que pensamos mientras cantamos daimoku??
Concentración mente en blanco?
Lograr objetivos?
Paz del mundo y felicidad para todos?
Y se me aburro,de tanto repetir? Bostezar y distraerse?.
Yo trato de sentir cada ideograma, a veces lo hago por 40 minutos.
Otra veces, solo tres veces.
Díganme ustedes en que piensan,como les ah funcionado de la mejor manera? Saludos desde Argentina.
Hola Jonatan! Cantar el Odaimoku es una meditación activa. La idea es bastante simple y esta basada en el entendimiento de cuerpo, voz y mente. Con las manos en Gassho mantienes la presencia mantrica en el cuerpo, con la recitación iluminas la voz y con la contemplación del Mantra iluminas la Mente. Basicamente tu campo visual es limitado al Gohonzon y tuas acciones y pensamientos son limitados al Odaimoku; asi, toda la existencia se transforma en contemplación y realización pura de la naturaleza Búdica.
Gassho,

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
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