May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Forum for discussion of East Asian Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nalanda »

I know little of these groups. Like almost nothing. What are their similarities and differences? Which are closer to Indian Buddhism, which ones are so 'developed'? I hope I'm not offending anybody with my questions. I'm sorry.


Zen, Chan, Seon, Thien, Rinzai, Soto - All the same? Just Zen in different languages? Why 3 Japanese versions?

Pure Land - Prayer to Amithaba. Go to Pureland.

Jodo Shin Shu - ?

Nichiren - There's 3 version? The guy said if you don't follow his path, you're going to hell? Is that true?
  • Nichiren Shu
  • Nichiren Shoshu
  • SGI - I only know what I heard...
Shingon - Vajrayana?

Tendai - Vajrayana?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7064
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Yes, it's confusing and complicated. So is any other subject which has preoccupied millions of people in dozens of countries for two and a half thousand years.
:smile:
The way of looking at it which makes most sense to me is as evolutionary history: the descendants of a dinosaur include birds, snakes, platypus, deer, grizzly bears and humans ... and every single one of them can legitimately claim the dinosaur as a direct ancestor.
In the same way, all the different schools of Buddhism can (and do) claim direct descent from the historical Buddha.

This Wikipedia page is one way into the maze - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Buddhism and it links to lots more detailed pages.
:reading:

Good luck!
:smile:
Kim
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nalanda »

Wow, I thought the list on DharmaWheel was complicated and long. That Wiki link just expanded my list by 20 times . :reading:
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7064
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Nalanda wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:11 am Wow, I thought the list on DharmaWheel was complicated and long. That Wiki link just expanded my list by 20 times . :reading:
:thumbsup:
If it helps ... this forum separates the main branches of Mahayana & Vajrayana but doesn't worry about all the finer divisions, while DW Theravada looks after the other main branch. That means that looking first at those in your OP makes good sense.

:namaste:
Kim
narhwal90
Global Moderator
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by narhwal90 »

As far as Nichiren goes there are quite a few different schools, most small. SGI, Shoshu, Shu are the largest. Generally they divide along lines of interpretation of Nichiren's letters and/or historical reasons. As to going to hell or not, opinions vary.
Brunelleschi
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Brunelleschi »

Nalanda wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:58 am I know little of these groups. Like almost nothing. What are their similarities and differences? Which are closer to Indian Buddhism, which ones are so 'developed'? I hope I'm not offending anybody with my questions. I'm sorry.
Hi, I will give it a go. But this will be pretty basic and some things may lack subtetly or be partially incorrect.
Zen, Chan, Seon, Thien, Rinzai, Soto - All the same? Just Zen in different languages? Why 3 Japanese versions?
In general countries like Japan and Korea got their Buddhist translations and so on from China. This was because China had a huge cultural influence in the surrounding area and the Chinese language was basically lingua franca in East Asia. Why there are different versions is I guess the same as why there are different law schools (mahdabs) in Islam. There is a source, and then there is disagreement on what is the proper interpretation and so on.

Chan = Chinese Zen.

Zen = Chan, imported from China.

Seon = Korean Chan Buddhism.

Thien = Vietnamese Chan Buddhism

Rinzai = A branch of Zen. Founded by Hakuin. Known for integrating koans into their practice.

Soto = Another branch of Zen. Founded by Dogen who went to China and then came back with teachings to Japan.
Pure Land - Prayer to Amithaba. Go to Pureland.

Jodo Shin Shu - ?
Well, remembrance of Amithaba Buddha anyway - often by chanting the phrase Namo Amida Butsu (Namo Amithaba Buddha). Why this "works" is due to Amithabas vows. Honen and Shinran are two famous figures in Pure Land Buddhism.

Jodo Shinsu/Jodo Shin Shu is a branch of Pure Land Buddhism.
Nichiren - There's 3 version? The guy said if you don't follow his path, you're going to hell? Is that true?
  • Nichiren Shu
  • Nichiren Shoshu
  • SGI - I only know what I heard...
Nichiren focused on the Lotus Sutra. This also has to do with a concept that is called Ekayana where in the "vechicle" of the Lotus Sutra contains all the other vechicles. And so, focusing on the Lotus Sutra, namely chanting (Nam) Myoho Renge Kyo, was the best or proper practice according to Nichiren. He is know by some for being polemical.

I personally wouldn't give such statements as the one above much weight. It is however a very nice Sutra. :smile:
Shingon - Vajrayana?
Yes. Brought to Japan by the monk Kukai (who also invented one of the three written languages used in Japan).
Tendai - Vajrayana?
Comes from the Tiantai school from China - which has a focus on the Lotus Sutra. Afaik it incorporated some elements from Vajrayana.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nalanda »

Brunelleschi wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:31 pm
Nalanda wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:58 am I know little of these groups. Like almost nothing. What are their similarities and differences? Which are closer to Indian Buddhism, which ones are so 'developed'? I hope I'm not offending anybody with my questions. I'm sorry.
Hi, I will give it a go. But this will be pretty basic and some things may lack subtetly or be partially incorrect.
Zen, Chan, Seon, Thien, Rinzai, Soto - All the same? Just Zen in different languages? Why 3 Japanese versions?
In general countries like Japan and Korea got their Buddhist translations and so on from China. This was because China had a huge cultural influence in the surrounding area and the Chinese language was basically lingua franca in East Asia. Why there are different versions is I guess the same as why there are different law schools (mahdabs) in Islam. There is a source, and then there is disagreement on what is the proper interpretation and so on.

Chan = Chinese Zen.

Zen = Chan, imported from China.

Seon = Korean Chan Buddhism.

Thien = Vietnamese Chan Buddhism

Rinzai = A branch of Zen. Founded by Hakuin. Known for integrating koans into their practice.

Soto = Another branch of Zen. Founded by Dogen who went to China and then came back with teachings to Japan.
Pure Land - Prayer to Amithaba. Go to Pureland.

Jodo Shin Shu - ?
Well, remembrance of Amithaba Buddha anyway - often by chanting the phrase Namo Amida Butsu (Namo Amithaba Buddha). Why this "works" is due to Amithabas vows. Honen and Shinran are two famous figures in Pure Land Buddhism.

Jodo Shinsu/Jodo Shin Shu is a branch of Pure Land Buddhism.
Nichiren - There's 3 version? The guy said if you don't follow his path, you're going to hell? Is that true?
  • Nichiren Shu
  • Nichiren Shoshu
  • SGI - I only know what I heard...
Nichiren focused on the Lotus Sutra. This also has to do with a concept that is called Ekayana where in the "vechicle" of the Lotus Sutra contains all the other vechicles. And so, focusing on the Lotus Sutra, namely chanting (Nam) Myoho Renge Kyo, was the best or proper practice according to Nichiren. He is know by some for being polemical.

I personally wouldn't give such statements as the one above much weight. It is however a very nice Sutra. :smile:
Shingon - Vajrayana?
Yes. Brought to Japan by the monk Kukai (who also invented one of the three written languages used in Japan).
Tendai - Vajrayana?
Comes from the Tiantai school from China - which has a focus on the Lotus Sutra. Afaik it incorporated some elements from Vajrayana.


Thank you. Something like that is what I want. A brief overview that can be read in a few minutes.
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

User avatar
Shotenzenjin
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:23 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Are you doing n a rush?
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
Nicholas2727
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:44 am

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

The previous post is a good explanation of the main differences, but I'll try and add more from what I know.

Zen - Japanese word for Chan Buddhism. Has two main schools, Soto and Rinzai.

Soto - Focuses on the works of Dogen. Main practice is Shikantaza. Is very popular here in the west, most zen schools will probably be soto.

Rinzai - Focuses on the works of Hakuin and Torei. Uses a wide variety of practices, from what I have read the main practices seem to be breath counting and then koans. Rinzai has a strong focus on Kensho, which seems to be lacking in the Soto school, at least in modern Soto from what I have seen.

Chan - Chinese (zen) Buddhism. In modern times it seems Chan is used as a general time to describe Chinese Buddhism, although Chan traditionally is a school focused on meditation. Someone could correct me because this may be wrong, but I believe I read that in Chinese Buddhism there are two forms of practice and two philosophical school. The two forms of practice are Chan (meditation) and Pure Land. The two philosophical schools are Tian tai and Hua Yen.

Seon - Korean (zen) Buddhism. I do not have much knowledge on Korean Buddhism, but it seems to have a similar style to Rinzai Zen from what I have seen. They also are big on bowing as a practice, as well as some serious meditation. When reading The Way of Korean Zen by Kusan Sunim, the practices were very intense (standing in meditation for many hours, 3 month retreats with little sleep, etc)

Thien - Vietnamese (zen) Buddhism. Thich Nhat Hanh seems to be the most popular Vietnamese zen master, but his style is a bit different from other Thien teachers. Vietnam is an interesting place since it has both Theravada and Mahayana monasteries. Thien Buddhism reminds me much more of Chinese Buddhsim when reading it, while Korean and Zen Buddhism seemed more similar just from reading.

Pure Land schools - Focus on being reborn in the Pure Land through prayer and mantras of Amitabha.

Jodo Shin Shu - A Japanese Buddhist school that focuses on Pure Land practice.

Nichiren - I have no idea about this school

Shingon - A strictly Vajrayana school of Japanese Buddhism. It seems to be growing a bit in the West, but there are not too many resources available about the tradition.

Tendai - Japanese school that focuses on the philosophical views of the Chinese Tian Tai school and incorporates multiple methods of practice. As far as diversity goes, Tendai is very diverse in their practices. If you go on Tendai-USA's website they have a write up about Tendai practices and it is very diverse. The Lotus Sutra has supreme importance in this tradition, but they also have a wide base of study. I know you post more frequently on the Tibetan section and from my experience Tendai seems to have a similar feel to Tibetan Buddhism. They both have a strong focus on the basics at first, place strong emphasis on studying the sutras and Indian masters (Tendai will add Zhiyi and Saicho which are probably excluded from Tibetan Buddhism) and then later in the path add Tantra.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nalanda »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:08 pm Are you doing n a rush?
No, an overview is a great start to learning something to get a 30,000ft visual of the entire landscape and plan how you tackle what's the reality on the ground.

For example, a beginner might be recommended a book "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" but an overview that takes a few minutes to read like https://tricycle.org/beginners/ is an even better start.
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

Genjo Conan
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:27 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Genjo Conan »

Brunelleschi wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:31 pm
Rinzai = A branch of Zen. Founded by Hakuin. Known for integrating koans into their practice.

Soto = Another branch of Zen. Founded by Dogen who went to China and then came back with teachings to Japan.
...sorta. "Rinzai" and "Soto" are Japanese transliterations of the names of two Chinese schools ("Linji" and "Caodong", respectively). It's true that Eihei Dogen transmitted the Caodong lineage to Japan. As for Rinzai, while Hakuin is a highly influential Japanese Rinzai teacher, he wasn't the first: Myoan Esai transmitted the Linji lineage to Japan in the 13th Century, about five hundred years before Hakuin.

Korean Seon and Vietnamese Thien also have lineages that flow from the Linji school; it's my understanding that Caodong was less successful in those countries, but my understanding is probably imperfect.
Shinjin
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:44 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Shinjin »

Jodo Shinshu - Heavy focus on establishing permanent faith in the 18th vow of Amitabha. Completely rejects the idea of requiring the individual to practice meditation, precepts, visualizations (self power practices) in order to attain rebirth in the Pure Land as opposed to some other Pure Land sects.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Nalanda »

Shinjin wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:10 pm Jodo Shinshu - Heavy focus on establishing permanent faith in the 18th vow of Amitabha. Completely rejects the idea of requiring the individual to practice meditation, precepts, visualizations (self power practices) in order to attain rebirth in the Pure Land as opposed to some other Pure Land sects.
Isn't that a bit extreme? How do they explain other Buddhists then? Mistaken?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

Shinjin
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:44 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Shinjin »

Nalanda wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:33 am
Shinjin wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:10 pm Jodo Shinshu - Heavy focus on establishing permanent faith in the 18th vow of Amitabha. Completely rejects the idea of requiring the individual to practice meditation, precepts, visualizations (self power practices) in order to attain rebirth in the Pure Land as opposed to some other Pure Land sects.
Isn't that a bit extreme? How do they explain other Buddhists then? Mistaken?
The Nembutsu and faith in the 18th vow is seen as the most effective strategy for attaining Buddhahood in the current age of Mappo/Kali yuga by this school, but other pure land and non pure land sects aren't mistaken. All Mahayana paths can lead a person to Buddhahood.
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7064
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Shinjin wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:49 am
Nalanda wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:33 am
Shinjin wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:10 pm Jodo Shinshu - Heavy focus on establishing permanent faith in the 18th vow of Amitabha. Completely rejects the idea of requiring the individual to practice meditation, precepts, visualizations (self power practices) in order to attain rebirth in the Pure Land as opposed to some other Pure Land sects.
Isn't that a bit extreme? How do they explain other Buddhists then? Mistaken?
The Nembutsu and faith in the 18th vow is seen as the most effective strategy for attaining Buddhahood in the current age of Mappo/Kali yuga by this school, but other pure land and non pure land sects aren't mistaken. All Mahayana paths can lead a person to Buddhahood.
Let's be honest here: hardly anyone, ever, in any activity, thinks that the way they do things is not the best way. How to tie shoelaces? How to drive from Paris to Bruges? How to cook a risotto? How to attain salvation? How to multiply 365 by 254?
Time after time it's, "My way is best."
Sometimes we add, "But yours is okay, too," but sometimes we say, "And yours will lead to disaster,"
Very rarely do we say, "Hey, I never thought of that! That's brilliant!" and change our practice.
This is common sense and experience applied to human nature, and it works just as well for religion as for anything else.

So yes, people in one school do often think others are mistaken. If not absolutely wrong, then at least sub-optimal, a little strange, etc. However, it's also true that Buddhists of different schools generally get along far better than equally-divergent Christians or (as far as I know, which isn't so far) Muslims or Jews.

:group:
Kim
MGeorge116
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by MGeorge116 »

Chan should theoretically be the closest to Indian Buddhism since its name derived from the Sanskrit term "Dhyan" which means meditation. And it is said the Bodhidharma, the first patriarch of Chan Buddhism arrived to China from South India. However, it has gone syncretism with Confucianism and Daoism to be in its original format. Buddhism in India has gone through challenges against Brahmins and Muslim invaders. It peaked during the Mauryan Empire and the Bactrian empire, and went through a steady decline ever since. If you want to know about early Buddhism, then I would suggest the Theravada sect.
User avatar
Zhen Li
Posts: 2748
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: May I have a quick cheat sheet or summary of each groups listed here?

Post by Zhen Li »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:59 am
Shinjin wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:49 am
Nalanda wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:33 am

Isn't that a bit extreme? How do they explain other Buddhists then? Mistaken?
The Nembutsu and faith in the 18th vow is seen as the most effective strategy for attaining Buddhahood in the current age of Mappo/Kali yuga by this school, but other pure land and non pure land sects aren't mistaken. All Mahayana paths can lead a person to Buddhahood.
Let's be honest here: hardly anyone, ever, in any activity, thinks that the way they do things is not the best way. How to tie shoelaces? How to drive from Paris to Bruges? How to cook a risotto? How to attain salvation? How to multiply 365 by 254?
Time after time it's, "My way is best."
Sometimes we add, "But yours is okay, too," but sometimes we say, "And yours will lead to disaster,"
Very rarely do we say, "Hey, I never thought of that! That's brilliant!" and change our practice.
This is common sense and experience applied to human nature, and it works just as well for religion as for anything else.

So yes, people in one school do often think others are mistaken. If not absolutely wrong, then at least sub-optimal, a little strange, etc. However, it's also true that Buddhists of different schools generally get along far better than equally-divergent Christians or (as far as I know, which isn't so far) Muslims or Jews.

:group:
Kim
This is why technically in Jōdo Shinshū discussion with other sects and proselytisation is discouraged. People are led to the practice that suits their karmic roots. If people have the karmic roots to find a path that actually provides them with faster, more effective progress to buddhahood, then (1) that karma isn't shared by those in Jōdo Shinshū, and I think (2) we would more than encourage them to continue on that path.
Post Reply

Return to “East Asian Buddhism”