Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

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FiveSkandhas
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Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by FiveSkandhas »

This woman is a self-proclaimed "crusader" against fraudulent scammers posing as Buddhist monks. Interesting encounter.

"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
Malcolm
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Malcolm »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:24 am This woman is a self-proclaimed "crusader" against fraudulent scammers posing as Buddhist monks. Interesting encounter.

That lady is a total jerk.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:53 am
FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:24 am This woman is a self-proclaimed "crusader" against fraudulent scammers posing as Buddhist monks. Interesting encounter.

That lady is a total jerk.
On one hand it is true we are enjoined to show respect to anyone in a robe, even if they are not legitimate monks.

On the other hand doesn't this man's behavior slander the Sangha (and thus the Three Jewels)? He can't even chant the Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāraṇī, which any Chinese monk and many if not most pious Chinese laypeople should be able to reel off instantly. He is denigrating actual members of the Sangha and defrauding normal citizens. In Hong Kong one fake Buddhist actually grossed over 1 MM HKD this way.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:53 am
FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:24 am This woman is a self-proclaimed "crusader" against fraudulent scammers posing as Buddhist monks. Interesting encounter.

That lady is a total jerk.
She probably had some bad experiences with being cheated by fake monks or rinpoches and feels she needs to expose them.
Malcolm
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Malcolm »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:15 am
On the other hand doesn't this man's behavior slander the Sangha (and thus the Three Jewels)?
That is his problem, and not ours. Still, that lady is a total jerk.
He is denigrating actual members of the Sangha and defrauding normal citizens.
There are actual members of the Monastic Sangha who do much worse things than panhandling.
In Hong Kong one fake Buddhist actually grossed over 1 MM HKD this way.
"A sucker is born every minute"

P.T. Barnum
Malcolm
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Malcolm »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:29 am
She probably had some bad experiences with being cheated by fake monks or rinpoches and feels she needs to expose them.
Nah, she is just an uptight busybody with nothing better to do with her time than harass beggars.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:31 pm
SilenceMonkey wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:29 am
She probably had some bad experiences with being cheated by fake monks or rinpoches and feels she needs to expose them.
Nah, she is just an uptight busybody with nothing better to do with her time than harass beggars.
Both could be true.
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Tilopa
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Tilopa »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:15 am
On one hand it is true we are enjoined to show respect to anyone in a robe, even if they are not legitimate monks.
Respect should be earned, even for those wearing robes.
frankie
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by frankie »

I'd like to sincerely apologise for my mother!
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Tilopa wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:05 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:15 am
On one hand it is true we are enjoined to show respect to anyone in a robe, even if they are not legitimate monks.
Respect should be earned, even for those wearing robes.
At least he has a peaceful nature.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Unlike Frankie’s mother.
muni
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by muni »

Cloths are not an indication of purification of our mind-heart, behaviour is.
Matylda
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Matylda »

muni wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:46 am Cloths are not an indication of purification of our mind-heart, behaviour is.
Well, according to Dogen zenji, the founder of the tradition in Japan, even to put on moonks robes as a joke brings merit, and final realization. He quoted widely sutras and sotry of a nun who achieved arhathood, and was disciple of Buddha. So she told her story when in the past eon she was a prostitute and put on monks robe as a joke. The story is longer and she went through all parts of it, I cut it short - finally she was born in Shakamuni time and became an arhat.
So looking at this monk, no-monk, I really do not care. He just reminded me of the story with the prostitute.

Anyway the lady from the clip is very annoying, it was not her business at all. Moreover as far as I can see it in Europe probably she badly broke the law demanding from this monk his id etc. she was not in a legal position to do so. otherwise anyone may stop cars on the street and check if drivers possess driving license.
muni
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by muni »

If you are in London, invite that man for diner.

If you see that woman, push her a waffle in her mouth, they sell that in London.

So both have something.

Matylda, whatever is helpful to inspire. If cloths do that, then wonderful.

We can as well wear whatever cloths and keep our muddy mind hidden, like a dirty wound under a clean bandage. It all depends on mind.
muni
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by muni »

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Taikor.Taikun
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Taikor.Taikun »

To some Buddhists, they feel obligated to protect the Dharma, the monastery, the Sangha, every images n names of the Buddhas n Bodhisattvas. The methods varies from person to person. Some r more aggressive, some r very patient, some use intelligence n tricks. They all have the same intention.

Misusing n abusing the name n reputation of the Triple Jewel is a big sin.

In China, in my country in SEA, and many other countries, beggars use all kinds of tricks. Hence, we have a common phrase <<真布施不怕假和尚>>, "real generosity is not afraid of false monk". If want to help, help. If such abuse got worse, no one will donate, n beggars will have to resort to other means. But this will affect real monks, especially Theravada monks collecting alms in the public. Locals will have to rely on familiarity with the monks they know.

Personally, I will advise the man to stop doing it. I have done my part, he has heard me n got the message. He decide what to do. I won't get aggressive, pushing n shoving. Not necessary

:namaste:
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

I've been thinking about this one... And have come to the conclusion that the world needs Dharma protectors.

What form these protectors take and how we should protect the Dharma, these are important questions. I'm wondering what people's views are on this?

Is exposing fake monks an illegitimate form of Dharma protection? And do Protectors have to be nice?
frankie
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by frankie »

There are already enough self-appointed Buddhist 'experts' policing what they believe to be the 'one true dharma'. Which is almost always only their culturally conditioned or mistaken interpretation of second-hand information, anyway. Whatever form it were to take, it'd most likely only create yet another dharma/drama them-against-us dichotomy. The rule makers against the evil rule breakers.

Perhaps people could do with strapping back on their lost sense of humour, sometimes, and smiling at stuff more than deciding to stop 'them'.

Besides, we already have enough legally enforceable rules...no?
Malcolm
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by Malcolm »

Taikor.Taikun wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:34 am To some Buddhists, they feel obligated to protect the Dharma, the monastery, the Sangha, every images n names of the Buddhas n Bodhisattvas.
Verbally assaulting people in public is just rude, and possibly illegal, no matter what one's reasons may be.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Fake monk called out, made to remove robes on streets of London

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:45 pm
Taikor.Taikun wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:34 am To some Buddhists, they feel obligated to protect the Dharma, the monastery, the Sangha, every images n names of the Buddhas n Bodhisattvas.
Verbally assaulting people in public is just rude, and possibly illegal, no matter what one's reasons may be.
Depends on the extent of the harm they've caused. If there is a cult leader brainwashing people and taking their money, I think behavior like hers would be warranted. Less than that, some fake tulku going around cheating people out of their money may also justify such verbal abuse. Fake monks on the street asking for money peacefully... maybe not. But if anyone was going to talk sense into them, it might be people like our chinese lady here.

I think it would be better if there were no fake monks, fake rinpoches, etc... Not only do they steal people's money. They ruin people's faith in the Dharma.

Looking from another angle... If you wanted a fake monk or fake lama to stop deceiving people, how would you get them to stop? Would you stand there all day with them, holding a sign saying "Don't give him money. He's fake."? Wouldn't last very long...
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