Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

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dpcalder
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Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by dpcalder »

Are there any strains of Mahayana Buddhism, especially East Asian Mahayana Buddhism, that have historically employed Chinese alchemy and or precursors to Qigong, in a way that is similar to the energy work practiced in Tibetan Buddhism?
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

dpcalder wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 am Are there any strains of Mahayana Buddhism, especially East Asian Mahayana Buddhism, that have historically employed Chinese alchemy and or precursors to Qigong, in a way that is similar to the energy work practiced in Tibetan Buddhism?
I think Meido Moore wrote about some of this in the Rinzai tradition in his new book.

There's a korean zen master of a temple I used to go to in the US who would talk about focusing on the dantian area. He would call it the pressure cooker!
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

There is certainly a bodily dimension to Rinzai Zen. I don't know how much I should say about it, or to what extent it constitutes "energy work" (whatever that even means) but it exists. There are certain things my Rinzai teacher taught me that involve a... physicality...that goes beyond "just sitting." I get the feeling I have the opportunity to learn more in years to come if I persist with this path.

As for alchemy, Kukai, the founder of the Shingon tradition, was almost assuredly involved with at least some aspects of alchemy.

Kukai's relationship with cinnabar and its weidan alchemical ritual implications is repeatedly uncovered by those willing to do research on the matter.

For example, as just one facet, consider the following:
Niutsuhime Myoujin 丹生都比売明神: A female mountain deity that resides in Mt. Kouya 高野 . According to legend Kuukai 空海 (774-83, see Kobo Daishi 弘法大師) recieved permission from Nui Myoujin through an oracle to build Kongoubuji 金剛峯寺, his monastery on Mt. Kouya, in 816. In many variants of the legend Nui Myoujin's son (or emanation) *Kariba Myoujin 狩場明神 (also known as Kouya Myoujin 高野明神) appeared as a hunter who led Kuukai to the site.

Niu Myoujin and Kariba Myoujin were adopted as the guardians (chinju 鎮守) of the monastery and, with two other deities added later, were worshipped at the Amano Jinja 天野神社, presently Niutsuhime Jinja 丹生都比売神社, as Kouya Shisho Gongen 高野四所権現 or Kouya Shisha Myoujin 高野四社明神. The word niu is found in the names of places associated with the mining of mercury ore (cinnabar). Scholars suggest that Niu Myojin may have been the deity of clans who did such mining. Mt . Kouya has, for the purposes of mandalas, sixteen peaks, which are represented as eight inner and eight outer petals, and these works combine the Matrix Mandala, *Taizoukai mandara 胎蔵界曼荼羅 and Diamond World Mandala, *Kongoukai mandara 金剛界曼荼羅.

These last two are the diagrams of the two aspects of *Dainichi, representing the realms of dynamic enlightenment and wisdom respectively. The bonji 梵字 (Siddham letters that are the sound symbol of the deity) for these two forms of Dainichi may appear on paintings of Niu Myoujin and her son when they are represented as Shinto deities *kami 神.

As her name says, 丹を生む, she is giving birth to cinnabar.

She is venerated at shrine Niutsuhime-jinja, which is dedicated to the deity of the land protecting the northwestern part of the Kii Mountain Range; an area that includes Koyasan. For this reason it has a close relation to Kongobu-ji temple.

She is related to cinnabar (shu 丹) and then mercury, which was found in the land around Koyasan. When Kukai received the land for building his temple, the natural resources would provide the money for construction of the many temples. The vermillion bridge and shrine buildings in her honor may relate to the cinnabar.

The main statue of the shrine in her honor might well be a piece of cinnabar chrystal, which melts into mercury (cinnabar (mercuric sulfide, ryuuka suigin 硫化水銀). It is a secret statue which nobody has seen yet.

In the Chinese alchemical traditions of Tao, mercury represents the yin principle embedded in yang; mercury is extracted and added to sulphur (yang, cinnabar).

The Tanden 丹田, the Cinnabar field within the human body, is part of that transformation process theory.


Niutsuhime is closely related to the mercury mining sites from Wakayama to Shikoku....
https://fudosama.blogspot.com/2006/01/niutsuhime.html


This site is also worth a look:
http://www.kaikodo.com/index.php/exhibi ... lives/1130
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

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FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:27 pm As for alchemy, Kukai, the founder of the Shingon tradition, was almost assuredly involved with at least some aspects of alchemy.

Kukai's relationship with cinnabar and its weidan alchemical ritual implications is repeatedly uncovered by those willing to do research on the matter.
Sorry, but aside from a blog, where else is the research available?
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

jake wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:48 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:27 pm As for alchemy, Kukai, the founder of the Shingon tradition, was almost assuredly involved with at least some aspects of alchemy.

Kukai's relationship with cinnabar and its weidan alchemical ritual implications is repeatedly uncovered by those willing to do research on the matter.
Sorry, but aside from a blog, where else is the research available?
Academia.edu is a good place to start. I just got:
112 hits on Kukai + alchemy
172 hits on Shingon + alchemy
Only 61 hits on Mikkyo + alchemy but a few high-quality dissertations I recall reading that treat the issue

Haven't even tried Chinese sect names or teacher names...bet there would be even more hits.

If you can read Japanese, 空海と錬金術 is a decent full-length book (Kukai and Alchemy) on the matter by one Tamotsu Sato.

JSTOR has links too...like I said the info is out there, but you got to dig for it a bit. Happy hunting.

Incidentally, I came across a lot of this stuff a few years ago researching "Cold food powder," a highly dangerous Chinese "alchemical elixir" used basically as a stimulant with other psychoactive properties. (Even wiki has a decent article on cold food powder). A small but significant chunk of Chinese cinnabar-based alchemy was used not for life extension but for what one might term "recreational mind expansion." The influence of this and similar concoctions on Taoism and Chinese literary theory is undeniable; direct quotes leave no doubt. Any potential connection with Buddhism puts us in much more controversial waters, and I have no reason to imagine Kukai was involved in such shady endeavors...but if he knew about Chinese weidan alchemy -- especially cinnabar lore -- there is a more than nonzero chance he had at least come across the concept in his studies.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by GDPR_Anonymized001 »

Thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post in light of the OP question and thought you meant that Alchemy was a part of Shingon. Now I see it's just that Kukai may have had knowledge and/or an interest in it.

Academia certainly does have a lot of articles! Is there a way to determine which of those that are available have been peer-reviewed?
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:39 pm
jake wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:48 pm
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:27 pm As for alchemy, Kukai, the founder of the Shingon tradition, was almost assuredly involved with at least some aspects of alchemy.

Kukai's relationship with cinnabar and its weidan alchemical ritual implications is repeatedly uncovered by those willing to do research on the matter.
Sorry, but aside from a blog, where else is the research available?
Academia.edu is a good place to start. I just got:
112 hits on Kukai + alchemy
172 hits on Shingon + alchemy
Only 61 hits on Mikkyo + alchemy but a few high-quality dissertations I recall reading that treat the issue

Haven't even tried Chinese sect names or teacher names...bet there would be even more hits.

If you can read Japanese, 空海と錬金術 is a decent full-length book (Kukai and Alchemy) on the matter by one Tamotsu Sato.

JSTOR has links too...like I said the info is out there, but you got to dig for it a bit. Happy hunting.

Incidentally, I came across a lot of this stuff a few years ago researching "Cold food powder," a highly dangerous Chinese "alchemical elixir" used basically as a stimulant with other psychoactive properties. (Even wiki has a decent article on cold food powder). A small but significant chunk of Chinese cinnabar-based alchemy was used not for life extension but for what one might term "recreational mind expansion." The influence of this and similar concoctions on Taoism and Chinese literary theory is undeniable; direct quotes leave no doubt. Any potential connection with Buddhism puts us in much more controversial waters, and I have no reason to imagine Kukai was involved in such shady endeavors...but if he knew about Chinese weidan alchemy -- especially cinnabar lore -- there is a more than nonzero chance he had at least come across the concept in his studies.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

jake wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:53 am Academia certainly does have a lot of articles! Is there a way to determine which of those that are available have been peer-reviewed?
Not sure but I feel the easiest way to judge the general credibility of the work is to click on the link to the author. The vast, vast majority are professional academics and you can see where they work, where they got their PhDs and so on. I generally assume if somebody who has a solid academic career puts something interesting up there, it's worth reading. There are a lot of dissertations posted too.

Also, the English-language Buddhist studies world is a small one, and if you are doing research in a specialized area like "late-Medieval Shingon Precept lineages in the Kanto area" or whatever your passion(s), it's even smaller. You get used to seeing the same handful of names over and over. I've reached out to a lot of these characters through email over the years, and they have all been happy enough to hear from a sincerely interested -- if eccentric and scruffy -- non-pro like myself.

The only problem with Academia.edu is you have to pay for it. But considering it's essentially a bottomless well of obscure Buddhist scholarship, I don't mind pinching a few pennies to do so. What else is there in life worth doing but reading in excruciating detail about medieval Sino-Japanese religion, when you get right down to it? :D

The other "inexhaustible treasury" of academic papers is JSTOR (https://www.jstor.org/). If you register with them now, you get to read up to 100 pieces free per month, at least as long as COVID lasts. They will probably crank the prices back up eventually, so now is a good time to make use of it.

:anjali:
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by Matt J »

FWIW, I don’t pay for Academia. You only have to pay fir certain features.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

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Check out some of the books by Yang, Wing-Ming.

He is a martial artist, not a Buddhist teacher, but yes, there is "Buddhist Qigong". Namely, the Yi Jin Jing is one of the most famous sets, rumored to have been taught to monks by Bodhidharma ...though I think this is doubted by scholar types.

Anyway, my impression from reading him is that Qigong has been somewhat compartmentalized, in that you might learn Buddhist or Daoist methods, or some combination, often somewhat divorced from either spiritual tradition.

The rough difference is whether or not Qi is cultivated at the dan tien to eventually perform the Daoist version of well...something like Phowa, or whether it is gathered externally sent up the central channel (whatever that is called in Chinese stuff, I do not remember) and out the crown in the Buddhist version. The methods meet in places.

Anyway, Muscle-Tendon Changing, Marrow-Brain washing Qigong is a good book with a lot of info on this - from the perspective of Qigong as a separate practice, not necessarily integrated with the actual spiritual traditions any more.

I do not remember the exact details, but for instance I practiced the Yi Jin Jing for years and found it amazingly effective health and energy wise, but the deeper spiritual use of it was not clear to me ( I don't remember if he goes into great detail on the book).

https://ymaa.com/publishing/book/qigong ... g-classics

This is the book I am most familiar with. Keep in mind, Yang Wing Ming is a martial artist and Qigong guy, not a Buddhist scholar.

Nonetheless, he has pretty thorough information on the details of the two methods.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

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I understand there are teachings on preparing the body for meditation practice that involve somatic circulation - whether energy or fluids. I don't think they are taught except to serious students orally within some traditions. There apparently are many teachings handed down to those who have been properly initiated that are unknown, especially outside Japan. Its kind of remarkable the degree of secrecy that is still maintained.
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Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

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純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:38 am Check out some of the books by Yang, Wing-Ming.

He is a martial artist, not a Buddhist teacher, but yes, there is "Buddhist Qigong". Namely, the Yi Jin Jing is one of the most famous sets, rumored to have been taught to monks by Bodhidharma ...though I think this is doubted by scholar types.

Anyway, my impression from reading him is that Qigong has been somewhat compartmentalized, in that you might learn Buddhist or Daoist methods, or some combination, often somewhat divorced from either spiritual tradition.

The rough difference is whether or not Qi is cultivated at the dan tien to eventually perform the Daoist version of well...something like Phowa, or whether it is gathered externally sent up the central channel (whatever that is called in Chinese stuff, I do not remember) and out the crown in the Buddhist version. The methods meet in places.

Anyway, Muscle-Tendon Changing, Marrow-Brain washing Qigong is a good book with a lot of info on this - from the perspective of Qigong as a separate practice, not necessarily integrated with the actual spiritual traditions any more.

I do not remember the exact details, but for instance I practiced the Yi Jin Jing for years and found it amazingly effective health and energy wise, but the deeper spiritual use of it was not clear to me ( I don't remember if he goes into great detail on the book).

https://ymaa.com/publishing/book/qigong ... g-classics

This is the book I am most familiar with. Keep in mind, Yang Wing Ming is a martial artist and Qigong guy, not a Buddhist scholar.

Nonetheless, he has pretty thorough information on the details of the two methods.
Hi,
No one teach openly real advanced buddhist qigong or neigong. Yang Jwing-Ming intentionally or unintentionally but completely misses the point in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises. From hints here and there it seems to me that Damo (=Damien) Mitchell is the only westerner (I don't read or speak Chinese) who at least has the necessary knowledge to teach the real methods.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

AmidaB wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:50 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:38 am Check out some of the books by Yang, Wing-Ming.

He is a martial artist, not a Buddhist teacher, but yes, there is "Buddhist Qigong". Namely, the Yi Jin Jing is one of the most famous sets, rumored to have been taught to monks by Bodhidharma ...though I think this is doubted by scholar types.

Anyway, my impression from reading him is that Qigong has been somewhat compartmentalized, in that you might learn Buddhist or Daoist methods, or some combination, often somewhat divorced from either spiritual tradition.

The rough difference is whether or not Qi is cultivated at the dan tien to eventually perform the Daoist version of well...something like Phowa, or whether it is gathered externally sent up the central channel (whatever that is called in Chinese stuff, I do not remember) and out the crown in the Buddhist version. The methods meet in places.

Anyway, Muscle-Tendon Changing, Marrow-Brain washing Qigong is a good book with a lot of info on this - from the perspective of Qigong as a separate practice, not necessarily integrated with the actual spiritual traditions any more.

I do not remember the exact details, but for instance I practiced the Yi Jin Jing for years and found it amazingly effective health and energy wise, but the deeper spiritual use of it was not clear to me ( I don't remember if he goes into great detail on the book).

https://ymaa.com/publishing/book/qigong ... g-classics

This is the book I am most familiar with. Keep in mind, Yang Wing Ming is a martial artist and Qigong guy, not a Buddhist scholar.

Nonetheless, he has pretty thorough information on the details of the two methods.
Hi,
No one teach openly real advanced buddhist qigong or neigong. Yang Jwing-Ming intentionally or unintentionally but completely misses the point in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises. From hints here and there it seems to me that Damo (=Damien) Mitchell is the only westerner (I don't read or speak Chinese) who at least has the necessary knowledge to teach the real methods.
"Hints here and there".

Very reliable :roll:

I was giving the recommendation of Yang, Wing Ming as a general source on the subject, not as a Buddhist teacher, I was clear about that, and wasn't soliciting an opinion or comparison.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttadinesso
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

AmidaB wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:50 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:38 am Check out some of the books by Yang, Wing-Ming.

He is a martial artist, not a Buddhist teacher, but yes, there is "Buddhist Qigong". Namely, the Yi Jin Jing is one of the most famous sets, rumored to have been taught to monks by Bodhidharma ...though I think this is doubted by scholar types.

Anyway, my impression from reading him is that Qigong has been somewhat compartmentalized, in that you might learn Buddhist or Daoist methods, or some combination, often somewhat divorced from either spiritual tradition.

The rough difference is whether or not Qi is cultivated at the dan tien to eventually perform the Daoist version of well...something like Phowa, or whether it is gathered externally sent up the central channel (whatever that is called in Chinese stuff, I do not remember) and out the crown in the Buddhist version. The methods meet in places.

Anyway, Muscle-Tendon Changing, Marrow-Brain washing Qigong is a good book with a lot of info on this - from the perspective of Qigong as a separate practice, not necessarily integrated with the actual spiritual traditions any more.

I do not remember the exact details, but for instance I practiced the Yi Jin Jing for years and found it amazingly effective health and energy wise, but the deeper spiritual use of it was not clear to me ( I don't remember if he goes into great detail on the book).

https://ymaa.com/publishing/book/qigong ... g-classics

This is the book I am most familiar with. Keep in mind, Yang Wing Ming is a martial artist and Qigong guy, not a Buddhist scholar.

Nonetheless, he has pretty thorough information on the details of the two methods.
Hi,
No one teach openly real advanced buddhist qigong or neigong. Yang Jwing-Ming intentionally or unintentionally but completely misses the point in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises. From hints here and there it seems to me that Damo (=Damien) Mitchell is the only westerner (I don't read or speak Chinese) who at least has the necessary knowledge to teach the real methods.
I’m aware Damo Mitchell has some training in Theravada. But are any of his qi methods Buddhist in origin? If they were, that would be quite interesting.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by AmidaB »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:39 pm
AmidaB wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:50 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:38 am Check out some of the books by Yang, Wing-Ming.

He is a martial artist, not a Buddhist teacher, but yes, there is "Buddhist Qigong". Namely, the Yi Jin Jing is one of the most famous sets, rumored to have been taught to monks by Bodhidharma ...though I think this is doubted by scholar types.

Anyway, my impression from reading him is that Qigong has been somewhat compartmentalized, in that you might learn Buddhist or Daoist methods, or some combination, often somewhat divorced from either spiritual tradition.

The rough difference is whether or not Qi is cultivated at the dan tien to eventually perform the Daoist version of well...something like Phowa, or whether it is gathered externally sent up the central channel (whatever that is called in Chinese stuff, I do not remember) and out the crown in the Buddhist version. The methods meet in places.

Anyway, Muscle-Tendon Changing, Marrow-Brain washing Qigong is a good book with a lot of info on this - from the perspective of Qigong as a separate practice, not necessarily integrated with the actual spiritual traditions any more.

I do not remember the exact details, but for instance I practiced the Yi Jin Jing for years and found it amazingly effective health and energy wise, but the deeper spiritual use of it was not clear to me ( I don't remember if he goes into great detail on the book).

https://ymaa.com/publishing/book/qigong ... g-classics

This is the book I am most familiar with. Keep in mind, Yang Wing Ming is a martial artist and Qigong guy, not a Buddhist scholar.

Nonetheless, he has pretty thorough information on the details of the two methods.
Hi,
No one teach openly real advanced buddhist qigong or neigong. Yang Jwing-Ming intentionally or unintentionally but completely misses the point in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises. From hints here and there it seems to me that Damo (=Damien) Mitchell is the only westerner (I don't read or speak Chinese) who at least has the necessary knowledge to teach the real methods.
"Hints here and there".

Very reliable :roll:

I was giving the recommendation of Yang, Wing Ming as a general source on the subject, not as a Buddhist teacher, I was clear about that, and wasn't soliciting an opinion or comparison.
Hi, Sorry for the misunderstandable phrasing. In this case the 'buddhist' is meant to be a lineage character or religious milieu where these exercise systems preserved (side note: involving heavy cross pollination from daoist traditions but the whose is the best or first is always debatable). I wrote 'hints' because no one speaks or writes openly on the subject. DM is at least leaked some information and from that it seems to me he knows one of the more or less complete systems. As far as I know he only teaches the tendon changing somewhat openly, but the marrow washing is reserved for his inner door students (or something similar, I'm not promoting his school or know the person). Master Yang is very traditional Chinese gentleman and even if he knows the working variant of these exercises he will never disclose it publicly.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Believe it or not the real knowledge (or at least a part of it) is somewhat the shared treasury of humanity. The almost complete 'tendon changing' sytem is preserved by old time strongmen (and strongwomen of course :twothumbsup: ), /ballet/dancers and circus acrobats. These are safe and reliable sources in this regard (I disclose no financial interest):
(try to read his source materials as well for the more clear and complete picture)
(look up the other videos where they train for 'rehabilitation')
(this is the infamous DM, so even his explanation is not always correct from the viewpoint of modern anatomy and physiology you could understand the background theory of the so called tendon changing in the chinese systems).

In the end I would like to emphasise that the real marrow washing system is completely secret. Even if you know the outer exercises they not share the essential guiding points and instructions. It is comparable with the secrecy around for eg the 'karmamudra' practices.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

AmidaB wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:39 pm
AmidaB wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:50 pm

Hi,
No one teach openly real advanced buddhist qigong or neigong. Yang Jwing-Ming intentionally or unintentionally but completely misses the point in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises. From hints here and there it seems to me that Damo (=Damien) Mitchell is the only westerner (I don't read or speak Chinese) who at least has the necessary knowledge to teach the real methods.
"Hints here and there".

Very reliable :roll:

I was giving the recommendation of Yang, Wing Ming as a general source on the subject, not as a Buddhist teacher, I was clear about that, and wasn't soliciting an opinion or comparison.
Hi, Sorry for the misunderstandable phrasing. In this case the 'buddhist' is meant to be a lineage character or religious milieu where these exercise systems preserved (side note: involving heavy cross pollination from daoist traditions but the whose is the best or first is always debatable). I wrote 'hints' because no one speaks or writes openly on the subject. DM is at least leaked some information and from that it seems to me he knows one of the more or less complete systems. As far as I know he only teaches the tendon changing somewhat openly, but the marrow washing is reserved for his inner door students (or something similar, I'm not promoting his school or know the person). Master Yang is very traditional Chinese gentleman and even if he knows the working variant of these exercises he will never disclose it publicly.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Believe it or not the real knowledge (or at least a part of it) is somewhat the shared treasury of humanity. The almost complete 'tendon changing' sytem is preserved by old time strongmen (and strongwomen of course :twothumbsup: ), /ballet/dancers and circus acrobats. These are safe and reliable sources in this regard (I disclose no financial interest):
(try to read his source materials as well for the more clear and complete picture)
(look up the other videos where they train for 'rehabilitation')
(this is the infamous DM, so even his explanation is not always correct from the viewpoint of modern anatomy and physiology you could understand the background theory of the so called tendon changing in the chinese systems).

In the end I would like to emphasise that the real marrow washing system is completely secret. Even if you know the outer exercises they not share the essential guiding points and instructions. It is comparable with the secrecy around for eg the 'karmamudra' practices.
What exactly is your authority for these claims?

Yang Wing Ming is well researched and known as something of a subject matter expert, in general terms. That doesn't mean he's qualified to teach these practices as the highest level, and he does not claim to do that in any way.

I would really like you here to substantiate your own background, and how you personally have the knowledge to discredit someone fairly well known to be knowledgeable in the area of Qigong and Marital arts, as well as having a general knowledge of the history (such as it can be known) of these exercises.

Continuing to publicly put down some figures while advocating others with little explanation is poor communication, and doesn't reflect well on whatever it is you are trying to say here.

If you're not willing to do the above, I don't see why you think I should listen to you. It's really not that useful to simply say "oh well this person does not teach this practice at the highest level" when 1) that is not what the OP asked for specifically, 2) does not reference anything I said, and 3) is not qualified with anything other than your own (so far unexplained, and largely unsolicited) opinion.

Since you apparently consider yourself more of a subject expert than Yang, Wing Ming (enough that you can give advice on what are the "correct" views here, evidently), I would like to know in detail what exactly makes you such a subject matter expert.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Yang Wing Mings writing style, approach, and way of doing things is -very- different from Mantak Chia. I have never seen Wing Ming make any outlandish claims. He is also a well-known and very well respected person in the martial arts world. Therefore, I think you should qualify the above a little better, before publicly claiming he is somehow teaching something "dangerous". In fact, I pretty much insist that you do so if you want to continue presenting yourself as being the arbiter of who teaches "correct" Qigong.

Much of the information you present in those videos is exactly what is covered Yang, Wing Mings book, which is why I am here expecting a better explanation. You should at least be able to provide a critique of why you think his Qigong teachings are "dangerous".
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by climb-up »

I too would be very curious to know what specifically is being criticized in re: Yang Jwing-Ming.
I have definitely seen some criticisms of how does, or at least use to, format his books and how a particular book could have been better, but I've never heard it claimed that he isn't a legit teacher and certainly not that he's dangerous to learn from!

I have many mixed feeling about Mantak Chia, and many personal criticisms, but would also like to hear some specifics against him.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by AmidaB »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:36 pm
AmidaB wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:39 pm

"Hints here and there".

Very reliable :roll:

I was giving the recommendation of Yang, Wing Ming as a general source on the subject, not as a Buddhist teacher, I was clear about that, and wasn't soliciting an opinion or comparison.
Hi, Sorry for the misunderstandable phrasing. In this case the 'buddhist' is meant to be a lineage character or religious milieu where these exercise systems preserved (side note: involving heavy cross pollination from daoist traditions but the whose is the best or first is always debatable). I wrote 'hints' because no one speaks or writes openly on the subject. DM is at least leaked some information and from that it seems to me he knows one of the more or less complete systems. As far as I know he only teaches the tendon changing somewhat openly, but the marrow washing is reserved for his inner door students (or something similar, I'm not promoting his school or know the person). Master Yang is very traditional Chinese gentleman and even if he knows the working variant of these exercises he will never disclose it publicly.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Believe it or not the real knowledge (or at least a part of it) is somewhat the shared treasury of humanity. The almost complete 'tendon changing' sytem is preserved by old time strongmen (and strongwomen of course :twothumbsup: ), /ballet/dancers and circus acrobats. These are safe and reliable sources in this regard (I disclose no financial interest):
(try to read his source materials as well for the more clear and complete picture)
(look up the other videos where they train for 'rehabilitation')
(this is the infamous DM, so even his explanation is not always correct from the viewpoint of modern anatomy and physiology you could understand the background theory of the so called tendon changing in the chinese systems).

In the end I would like to emphasise that the real marrow washing system is completely secret. Even if you know the outer exercises they not share the essential guiding points and instructions. It is comparable with the secrecy around for eg the 'karmamudra' practices.
What exactly is your authority for these claims?

Yang Wing Ming is well researched and known as something of a subject matter expert, in general terms. That doesn't mean he's qualified to teach these practices as the highest level, and he does not claim to do that in any way.

I would really like you here to substantiate your own background, and how you personally have the knowledge to discredit someone fairly well known to be knowledgeable in the area of Qigong and Marital arts, as well as having a general knowledge of the history (such as it can be known) of these exercises.

Continuing to publicly put down some figures while advocating others with little explanation is poor communication, and doesn't reflect well on whatever it is you are trying to say here.

If you're not willing to do the above, I don't see why you think I should listen to you. It's really not that useful to simply say "oh well this person does not teach this practice at the highest level" when 1) that is not what the OP asked for specifically, 2) does not reference anything I said, and 3) is not qualified with anything other than your own (so far unexplained, and largely unsolicited) opinion.

Since you apparently consider yourself more of a subject expert than Yang, Wing Ming (enough that you can give advice on what are the "correct" views here, evidently), I would like to know in detail what exactly makes you such a subject matter expert.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Yang Wing Mings writing style, approach, and way of doing things is -very- different from Mantak Chia. I have never seen Wing Ming make any outlandish claims. He is also a well-known and very well respected person in the martial arts world. Therefore, I think you should qualify the above a little better, before publicly claiming he is somehow teaching something "dangerous". In fact, I pretty much insist that you do so if you want to continue presenting yourself as being the arbiter of who teaches "correct" Qigong.

Much of the information you present in those videos is exactly what is covered Yang, Wing Mings book, which is why I am here expecting a better explanation. You should at least be able to provide a critique of why you think his Qigong teachings are "dangerous".
Hi,
My first thought was that I am not obliged to backup my claims especially in the pre-designed way you insist how should I need to response in order to persuade or convice you or anyone else. But that would be a very inappropriate and downright rude approach after dropping da bomb.
Firstly, I have no 'authority' but acquired some experience including a debilitatingly stabbing pain in my left knee after longer hiking or cycling sessions thanks to my 'shaolin' training. In order to avoid further misunderstandings and hurted feelings I will not disclose my lineage (where I am not and was not a position or lineage holder, and only was a lowly student) but under the umbrella term of shaolin I learnt a hybrid style of Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut, Bak Mei, some southern Dragon style, Tang Lang (aka. praying mantis), hard qigong from the mentioned styles especially from Hung Gar, a bit of tui na massage, a bit of Tai Chi (a short form, but long sessions of wuji stance, opening (kai) and cloud hands). The carrot and stick for us was the iron shirt demonstrations of the master(s)= our Si Fu's (literally father) and Si Heng's (literally elder brother)- the usual stuff: bending spears and breaking chopsticks on the neck (a cool trick), breaking unsuspecting and innocent objects with or on various limbs and selected body areas, and of course the 'sexual' qigong where you can hang/pull heavy objects on/with your nether parts (you have to know how and where :smile: to put the knot, even the cloth's material and personalized measurements are important in the case of male students).
When you not know = they not teach the proper methods you can cripple yourself for life. Even the light hitting and massage without the proper preliminary training as unfortunately and now that I have reread the passages confusingly presented in Mr. Yangs book can cause so called xue (blood) and qi (energy, when Mr. Yang writes about the general theory he presents the theory of various kinds of qi, but forget to differentiate them when he describes the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises) stagnation and/or blockage.
I clearly remember the astonished look on my classmates face in highschool when they saw my (no joke) black and red striped back, abdomen, chest, arms and tights before the pe class in the changing room. I was proud of those marks then because for me they indicated the ’effectiveness’ of hard hitting gong training (I had no pain or even a mild discomfort at all then). Unfortunately, the reality dawned on me much much later when I tried to conduct some private research on why we (my ’shaolin’ brothers and sisters) and even our masters not reached the promised higher level of these arts (= qigong/neigong in our case).
What Mr. Yang book is presents in this regard (I emphasise again in order to avoid further misunderstandings, I am only writing about his approach in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises/systems) is the art of long honed blabla. His explanations (expecially in relation to the translated texts (which were originally designed to be unintelligible without oral commentary and personal guidance from an experienced master) for better are useless, for worst are potentially dangerous. They are dangerous because even in a mild case you waste your money and time without reaching the promised results. Moreover, when you are a diligent and persistent student you could wreck your ’energetic’ system, blood production and circulation, and of course your nervous system function by blindly following the books. Furthermore, not every tcm doctor able to treat or cure the more serious kind of cases, and the western medicine is only will able to treat what the tcm might call symptoms of the original problem.
In conclusion and without any authority I would like to encourage you and any reader of this short horror of me that train safely under the personal guidance of a qualified teacher (good sign of that for eg. if he or she allows you to touch his or her body when he/she personally demonstrates the exercises – you need to and have to feel the process!; repeats them if you ask for that respectfully; clearly and repeatedly explains the hows and whys in a common and clear language – avoiding any mumbo jumbo flowery language /this not meant to that she/he not able to explain the cultural, tcm etc. context and/or background/; starts with teaching some seemingly very simple exercises and constantly corrects your execution). For further clarification I have not presented anything in those links (videos etc.) I presented those links because I would like to point in to the (I believe) right direction.
I don’t want to be cocky or have any ulterior motive but if you want to understand the background of why this or that correct or incorrect in this field of knowledge you need to learn advanced tcm theory, neigong theory, and of course modern western anatomy and physiology. I think a good start would be learnig the difference between the (different levels and contexts) of hou tian and xian tian.
I have gained some experience when trained in the wrong way and if you would like to save some time, pain and money you could learn from my very limited experience and rather big mistakes.
All the best, and stay healthy and be happy!
I also would like to ask your forgiveness for my English usage, and for any possible misunderstandings stemming from that.
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

AmidaB wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:12 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:36 pm
AmidaB wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Hi, Sorry for the misunderstandable phrasing. In this case the 'buddhist' is meant to be a lineage character or religious milieu where these exercise systems preserved (side note: involving heavy cross pollination from daoist traditions but the whose is the best or first is always debatable). I wrote 'hints' because no one speaks or writes openly on the subject. DM is at least leaked some information and from that it seems to me he knows one of the more or less complete systems. As far as I know he only teaches the tendon changing somewhat openly, but the marrow washing is reserved for his inner door students (or something similar, I'm not promoting his school or know the person). Master Yang is very traditional Chinese gentleman and even if he knows the working variant of these exercises he will never disclose it publicly.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Believe it or not the real knowledge (or at least a part of it) is somewhat the shared treasury of humanity. The almost complete 'tendon changing' sytem is preserved by old time strongmen (and strongwomen of course :twothumbsup: ), /ballet/dancers and circus acrobats. These are safe and reliable sources in this regard (I disclose no financial interest):
(try to read his source materials as well for the more clear and complete picture)
(look up the other videos where they train for 'rehabilitation')
(this is the infamous DM, so even his explanation is not always correct from the viewpoint of modern anatomy and physiology you could understand the background theory of the so called tendon changing in the chinese systems).

In the end I would like to emphasise that the real marrow washing system is completely secret. Even if you know the outer exercises they not share the essential guiding points and instructions. It is comparable with the secrecy around for eg the 'karmamudra' practices.
What exactly is your authority for these claims?

Yang Wing Ming is well researched and known as something of a subject matter expert, in general terms. That doesn't mean he's qualified to teach these practices as the highest level, and he does not claim to do that in any way.

I would really like you here to substantiate your own background, and how you personally have the knowledge to discredit someone fairly well known to be knowledgeable in the area of Qigong and Marital arts, as well as having a general knowledge of the history (such as it can be known) of these exercises.

Continuing to publicly put down some figures while advocating others with little explanation is poor communication, and doesn't reflect well on whatever it is you are trying to say here.

If you're not willing to do the above, I don't see why you think I should listen to you. It's really not that useful to simply say "oh well this person does not teach this practice at the highest level" when 1) that is not what the OP asked for specifically, 2) does not reference anything I said, and 3) is not qualified with anything other than your own (so far unexplained, and largely unsolicited) opinion.

Since you apparently consider yourself more of a subject expert than Yang, Wing Ming (enough that you can give advice on what are the "correct" views here, evidently), I would like to know in detail what exactly makes you such a subject matter expert.
As for safety: the books of Mr. Yang (and Mr. Mantak Chia as he is in the same business) are not suitable as information sources and even partially dangerous in this regard (NOT for buddhism or for buddhist perspective), but for practising these methods or exercises.
Yang Wing Mings writing style, approach, and way of doing things is -very- different from Mantak Chia. I have never seen Wing Ming make any outlandish claims. He is also a well-known and very well respected person in the martial arts world. Therefore, I think you should qualify the above a little better, before publicly claiming he is somehow teaching something "dangerous". In fact, I pretty much insist that you do so if you want to continue presenting yourself as being the arbiter of who teaches "correct" Qigong.

Much of the information you present in those videos is exactly what is covered Yang, Wing Mings book, which is why I am here expecting a better explanation. You should at least be able to provide a critique of why you think his Qigong teachings are "dangerous".
Hi,
My first thought was that I am not obliged to backup my claims especially in the pre-designed way you insist how should I need to response in order to persuade or convice you or anyone else. But that would be a very inappropriate and downright rude approach after dropping da bomb.
Firstly, I have no 'authority' but acquired some experience including a debilitatingly stabbing pain in my left knee after longer hiking or cycling sessions thanks to my 'shaolin' training. In order to avoid further misunderstandings and hurted feelings I will not disclose my lineage (where I am not and was not a position or lineage holder, and only was a lowly student) but under the umbrella term of shaolin I learnt a hybrid style of Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut, Bak Mei, some southern Dragon style, Tang Lang (aka. praying mantis), hard qigong from the mentioned styles especially from Hung Gar, a bit of tui na massage, a bit of Tai Chi (a short form, but long sessions of wuji stance, opening (kai) and cloud hands). The carrot and stick for us was the iron shirt demonstrations of the master(s)= our Si Fu's (literally father) and Si Heng's (literally elder brother)- the usual stuff: bending spears and breaking chopsticks on the neck (a cool trick), breaking unsuspecting and innocent objects with or on various limbs and selected body areas, and of course the 'sexual' qigong where you can hang/pull heavy objects on/with your nether parts (you have to know how and where :smile: to put the knot, even the cloth's material and personalized measurements are important in the case of male students).
When you not know = they not teach the proper methods you can cripple yourself for life. Even the light hitting and massage without the proper preliminary training as unfortunately and now that I have reread the passages confusingly presented in Mr. Yangs book can cause so called xue (blood) and qi (energy, when Mr. Yang writes about the general theory he presents the theory of various kinds of qi, but forget to differentiate them when he describes the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises) stagnation and/or blockage.
I clearly remember the astonished look on my classmates face in highschool when they saw my (no joke) black and red striped back, abdomen, chest, arms and tights before the pe class in the changing room. I was proud of those marks then because for me they indicated the ’effectiveness’ of hard hitting gong training (I had no pain or even a mild discomfort at all then). Unfortunately, the reality dawned on me much much later when I tried to conduct some private research on why we (my ’shaolin’ brothers and sisters) and even our masters not reached the promised higher level of these arts (= qigong/neigong in our case).
What Mr. Yang book is presents in this regard (I emphasise again in order to avoid further misunderstandings, I am only writing about his approach in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises/systems) is the art of long honed blabla. His explanations (expecially in relation to the translated texts (which were originally designed to be unintelligible without oral commentary and personal guidance from an experienced master) for better are useless, for worst are potentially dangerous. They are dangerous because even in a mild case you waste your money and time without reaching the promised results. Moreover, when you are a diligent and persistent student you could wreck your ’energetic’ system, blood production and circulation, and of course your nervous system function by blindly following the books. Furthermore, not every tcm doctor able to treat or cure the more serious kind of cases, and the western medicine is only will able to treat what the tcm might call symptoms of the original problem.
In conclusion and without any authority I would like to encourage you and any reader of this short horror of me that train safely under the personal guidance of a qualified teacher (good sign of that for eg. if he or she allows you to touch his or her body when he/she personally demonstrates the exercises – you need to and have to feel the process!; repeats them if you ask for that respectfully; clearly and repeatedly explains the hows and whys in a common and clear language – avoiding any mumbo jumbo flowery language /this not meant to that she/he not able to explain the cultural, tcm etc. context and/or background/; starts with teaching some seemingly very simple exercises and constantly corrects your execution). For further clarification I have not presented anything in those links (videos etc.) I presented those links because I would like to point in to the (I believe) right direction.
I don’t want to be cocky or have any ulterior motive but if you want to understand the background of why this or that correct or incorrect in this field of knowledge you need to learn advanced tcm theory, neigong theory, and of course modern western anatomy and physiology. I think a good start would be learnig the difference between the (different levels and contexts) of hou tian and xian tian.
I have gained some experience when trained in the wrong way and if you would like to save some time, pain and money you could learn from my very limited experience and rather big mistakes.
All the best, and stay healthy and be happy!
I also would like to ask your forgiveness for my English usage, and for any possible misunderstandings stemming from that.
Who is or was, your sifu?
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Re: Qigong / Chinese Alchemy in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

AmidaB wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:12 am
Hi,
My first thought was that I am not obliged to backup my claims especially in the pre-designed way you insist how should I need to response in order to persuade or convice you or anyone else. But that would be a very inappropriate and downright rude approach after dropping da bomb.

It would also be pointless.
Firstly, I have no 'authority' but acquired some experience including a debilitatingly stabbing pain in my left knee after longer hiking or cycling sessions thanks to my 'shaolin' training. In order to avoid further misunderstandings and hurted feelings I will not disclose my lineage (where I am not and was not a position or lineage holder, and only was a lowly student) but under the umbrella term of shaolin I learnt a hybrid style of Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut, Bak Mei, some southern Dragon style, Tang Lang (aka. praying mantis), hard qigong from the mentioned styles especially from Hung Gar, a bit of tui na massage, a bit of Tai Chi (a short form, but long sessions of wuji stance, opening (kai) and cloud hands). The carrot and stick for us was the iron shirt demonstrations of the master(s)= our Si Fu's (literally father) and Si Heng's (literally elder brother)- the usual stuff: bending spears and breaking chopsticks on the neck (a cool trick), breaking unsuspecting and innocent objects with or on various limbs and selected body areas, and of course the 'sexual' qigong where you can hang/pull heavy objects on/with your nether parts (you have to know how and where :smile: to put the knot, even the cloth's material and personalized measurements are important in the case of male students).
Some of those Iron shirt skills don't require any internal training at all, but simply a few musculoskeletal adjustments that can be learned by anyone. Hell, I can do some of them to get oohs and ahhs and I am just an old Krotty guy. For the record, I'm saying that such stories do not impress me, I have been involved in martial arts for most of my life have seen all kinds of stuff. Marketing is marketing.
When you not know = they not teach the proper methods you can cripple yourself for life. Even the light hitting and massage without the proper preliminary training as unfortunately and now that I have reread the passages confusingly presented in Mr. Yangs book can cause so called xue (blood) and qi (energy, when Mr. Yang writes about the general theory he presents the theory of various kinds of qi, but forget to differentiate them when he describes the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises) stagnation and/or blockage.
So the complaint is that he doesn't mention some specific malady? This is not very clear.

I clearly remember the astonished look on my classmates face in highschool when they saw my (no joke) black and red striped back, abdomen, chest,
What Mr. Yang book is presents in this regard (I emphasise again in order to avoid further misunderstandings, I am only writing about his approach in relation to the tendon changing and marrow washing exercises/systems) is the art of long honed blabla. His explanations (expecially in relation to the translated texts (which were originally designed to be unintelligible without oral commentary and personal guidance from an experienced master) for better are useless, for worst are potentially dangerous. They are dangerous because even in a mild case you waste your money and time without reaching the promised results. Moreover, when you are a diligent and persistent student you could wreck your ’energetic’ system, blood production and circulation, and of course your nervous system function by blindly following the books. Furthermore, not every tcm doctor able to treat or cure the more serious kind of cases, and the western medicine is only will able to treat what the tcm might call symptoms of the original problem.
In conclusion and without any authority I would like to encourage you and any reader of this short horror of me that train safely under the personal guidance of a qualified teacher (good sign of that for eg. if he or she allows you to touch his or her body when he/she personally demonstrates the exercises – you need to and have to feel the process!; repeats them if you ask for that respectfully; clearly and repeatedly explains the hows and whys in a common and clear language – avoiding any mumbo jumbo flowery language /this not meant to that she/he not able to explain the cultural, tcm etc. context and/or background/; starts with teaching some seemingly very simple exercises and constantly corrects your execution). For further clarification I have not presented anything in those links (videos etc.) I presented those links because I would like to point in to the (I believe) right direction.
I've had in person instruction of various types in Qigong, not just books, for a number of years, like 20. I can do at least some of the tricks that you thought were cool, in my opinion all those are is parlor tricks to inculcate habits, and do not mean that someone knows anything internal, much less spiritual. People can learn them independent of any system...hell, houdini knew some of them. Your criticisms still don't really seem to explain what you object to in YWM's writings, and are too vague.

The point is, you cannot know anyone's experiences on a forum, so personal narratives only go so far for us. In this case you are criticizing something of an acknowledged subject matter expert - much moreso than yourself, as you admit in the case of YWM-, (unless you have a career we don't know about).

in such a case there is a fairly high burden of proof on you to be specific in your criticisms, rather than just post more personal narratives, if you want to be taken seriously at least.
I don’t want to be cocky or have any ulterior motive but if you want to understand the background of why this or that correct or incorrect in this field of knowledge you need to learn advanced tcm theory, neigong theory, and of course modern western anatomy and physiology. I think a good start would be learnig the difference between the (different levels and contexts) of hou tian and xian tian.
I have gained some experience when trained in the wrong way and if you would like to save some time, pain and money you could learn from my very limited experience and rather big mistakes.
All the best, and stay healthy and be happy!
I also would like to ask your forgiveness for my English usage, and for any possible misunderstandings stemming from that.
This post still involves no specifics other than a vague complaint about YWM not differentiating types of Qi well enough for your liking. It's also worth mentioning, the one book I am aware of that he writes in this level of detail on (the muscle-tendon changing one) is not really an instruction manual per se anyway, but more of an overview. It -certainly- doesn't claim to substitute for the direct guidance of a teacher.

So, I think your criticisms are either disingenuous, or you don't remember the book that well. You also mentioned earlier that you do not speak Chinese, so I do not understand how you are qualified to pick apart YWM's translation of things in the first place, and you are not explaining it here.

As regards the original issue:
Hi,
My first thought was that I am not obliged to backup my claims especially in the pre-designed way you insist how should I need to response in order to persuade or convice you or anyone else. But that would be a very inappropriate and downright rude approach after dropping da bomb.
Generally when someone goes out of their way to publicly criticize something, they can list some specific reasons they have problems with it. So far, with that whole writing, all I really have is some personal narrative, one criticism that there is not enough detail in the types of Qi portion of the book, then some very vague and dire warnings.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttadinesso
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