Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

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[email protected]
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Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by [email protected] »

Recently I had seen somewhere on this forum a comment by Malcolm about Sakya Pandita's advice regarding taking medicine. The quote/text would be very helpful for a friend (currently in hospital) who wants to ask their lama a clear question. The context is their (and mine) concern that a position of being anti 'scientism' has led to a anti Covid vaccine stance within our sangha. Thank you,
Malcolm
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by Malcolm »

[email protected] wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:56 am Recently I had seen somewhere on this forum a comment by Malcolm about Sakya Pandita's advice regarding taking medicine. The quote/text would be very helpful for a friend (currently in hospital) who wants to ask their lama a clear question. The context is their (and mine) concern that a position of being anti 'scientism' has led to a anti Covid vaccine stance within our sangha. Thank you,
you can find this citation in Clarifying the Sages Intent, In The Stages of the Buddhist Doctrine, Wisdom Pubs.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by Sādhaka »

Well back then, Sakya Pandita could have only been talking about natural medicine (i.e. medicine that most anti-scientism people wouldn’t object to); therefore it’s kind of irrelevant.
[email protected]
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by [email protected] »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:34 pm
[email protected] wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:56 am Recently I had seen somewhere on this forum a comment by Malcolm about Sakya Pandita's advice regarding taking medicine. The quote/text would be very helpful for a friend (currently in hospital) who wants to ask their lama a clear question. The context is their (and mine) concern that a position of being anti 'scientism' has led to a anti Covid vaccine stance within our sangha. Thank you,
you can find this citation in Clarifying the Sages Intent, In The Stages of the Buddhist Doctrine, Wisdom Pubs.
Thank you so much Malcolm.
zerwe
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by zerwe »

Another Lama, another lineage, but I have instructions (visualization and mantra) somewhere regarding how to increase the efficacy of modern medicine. I would have to look and see if I still have them. Pretty sure they were Medicine Buddha related and in a hard copy format. I'm not sure where the anti-modern medicine slant comes from in some of today's practitioners. Perhaps, it is a carry over from a lot of new-agey stuff from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and beyond.

Shaun :namaste:
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nyonchung
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by nyonchung »

Well there is also excess use of medication, much to the benefit of big pharma (I don't which from France or the US is the worst at that)
So there are legitimate questions, but rarely taken on a scientific / medical basis (maybe lack of or poor scientific training ?)

Long ago, Situ Rinpoché (this was in Sonada , 1983) was giving a small lecture to Western students, and the subject of Tibetan medecine came around. One must precise that the 8th Situ was a great scholar, painter, etc ... and a great expert on Tibetan medicine, and that thepresent incarnation is familiar with the subject. So our enthusiastic Westerners (well, my Dharma brothers and sisters) expressed to Rinpoché taht they were ditching Westren medecine, and adopting the pure, natural Tibetan medecine ... "plus royalistes que le roi"we say in French "more royalists that the king himself";
Their enthusiasm was quickly doused by Rinpoché: "Well, say you have TB" (alas common in Darjeeling District) "then you go to see the Tibetan doctor" - smiles - "well, you're dead, you need antibiotics" - deep silence.
I got there a serious pulmonar infection, and Kalu Rinpoché's nephew sent me to Dr Pemba in Darjeeling (he took excellent for Kalu Rinpoché during many years), a Western-trained physiologist. Without antibiotics, I won't be typing now.
Now yes, there is an excessive use of antibiotics, and conterproductive. Profit is there. Not in Tibetan medecine.
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
mahabuddha
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by mahabuddha »

I think the best course of action is to mind your own business.
PeterC
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by PeterC »

zerwe wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:11 pm I'm not sure where the anti-modern medicine slant comes from in some of today's practitioners.
It would mean an immediate exit from association with them for me, since I am not capable of maintaining pure perception of an idiot
zerwe
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by zerwe »

PeterC wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:55 pm
zerwe wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:11 pm I'm not sure where the anti-modern medicine slant comes from in some of today's practitioners.
It would mean an immediate exit from association with them for me, since I am not capable of maintaining pure perception of an idiot
Yes, that is difficult and, the pervasive ignorance (lack of education and misinformation type) which spreads like wildfire, makes practice interesting.

It can be infuriating.

I have been trying to turn it into a way to increase my motivation. Where I want to become an enlightened being as quickly as possible in order to destroy my own ignorance so I can annihilate the worldly, and innate self-grasping, stupidity of others and lead them all to an enlightened state.

Shaun :namaste:
mahabuddha
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by mahabuddha »

zerwe wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:35 pm
PeterC wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:55 pm
zerwe wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:11 pm I'm not sure where the anti-modern medicine slant comes from in some of today's practitioners.
It would mean an immediate exit from association with them for me, since I am not capable of maintaining pure perception of an idiot
Yes, that is difficult and, the pervasive ignorance (lack of education and misinformation type) which spreads like wildfire, makes practice interesting.

It can be infuriating.

I have been trying to turn it into a way to increase my motivation. Where I want to become an enlightened being as quickly as possible in order to destroy my own ignorance so I can annihilate the worldly, and innate self-grasping, stupidity of others and lead them all to an enlightened state.

Shaun :namaste:
You'll be waiting a very long time with such a narrow and arrogant view. Good luck.
Malcolm
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by Malcolm »

Sādhaka wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:08 pm Well back then, Sakya Pandita could have only been talking about natural medicine (i.e. medicine that most anti-scientism people wouldn’t object to); therefore it’s kind of irrelevant.
No, he was talking about Tibetan Medicine and people who refuse medical treatment of any kind claiming that accepting medical treatment proved one had no faith the Buddha. Also, there are many strongly poisonous substances that can be used, treated and altered for use as medicine, no better than any modern medical poisons, from the perspective of medicines used to combat severe illnesses.
zerwe
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Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.

Post by zerwe »

mahabuddha wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:22 pm
zerwe wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:35 pm
PeterC wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:55 pm

It would mean an immediate exit from association with them for me, since I am not capable of maintaining pure perception of an idiot
Yes, that is difficult and, the pervasive ignorance (lack of education and misinformation type) which spreads like wildfire, makes practice interesting.

It can be infuriating.

I have been trying to turn it into a way to increase my motivation. Where I want to become an enlightened being as quickly as possible in order to destroy my own ignorance so I can annihilate the worldly, and innate self-grasping, stupidity of others and lead them all to an enlightened state.

Shaun :namaste:
You'll be waiting a very long time with such a narrow and arrogant view. Good luck.
Sorry, I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is coming from, but my intention was to make a helpful suggestion. Last I checked ignorance is to be eliminated, no?

Shaun :namaste:
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