Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

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WeiHan
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Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by WeiHan »

Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland? I have not read any Sakya teachings or any of my Sakya Gurus mentioned this point. Would be useful to have this point clarified.

Thanks in advance.
PeterC
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by PeterC »

WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:50 am Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland? I have not read any Sakya teachings or any of my Sakya Gurus mentioned this point. Would be useful to have this point clarified.

Thanks in advance.
Define realization of emptiness.

Also - which teachings have you received in this tradition?
WeiHan
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by WeiHan »

PeterC wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:34 pm
WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:50 am Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland? I have not read any Sakya teachings or any of my Sakya Gurus mentioned this point. Would be useful to have this point clarified.

Thanks in advance.
Define realization of emptiness.

Also - which teachings have you received in this tradition?
I received all the teachings in this tradition including uncommon inconceivable yoga, body mandala and Phowa. Realisation of emptiness in the usual sense that all the lamas refer to when they teach. It means attaining the path of seeing.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by Sādhaka »

You mean First Bhumi?
PeterC
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by PeterC »

WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:12 pm
PeterC wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:34 pm
WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:50 am Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland? I have not read any Sakya teachings or any of my Sakya Gurus mentioned this point. Would be useful to have this point clarified.

Thanks in advance.
Define realization of emptiness.

Also - which teachings have you received in this tradition?
I received all the teachings in this tradition including uncommon inconceivable yoga, body mandala and Phowa. Realisation of emptiness in the usual sense that all the lamas refer to when they teach. It means attaining the path of seeing.
If you received the teachings on the eleven yogas then you received the answer in the teachings. The lama who gave you the teachings would also have explained that the content of those teachings is not to be discussed with those who haven't received it.
WeiHan
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by WeiHan »

Sādhaka wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm You mean First Bhumi?
Should be.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by Sādhaka »

WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:20 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm You mean First Bhumi?
Should be.

Right; I hadn’t yet seen that you mentioned the Path of Seeing, when I posted that.
WeiHan
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by WeiHan »

PeterC wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:11 pm
WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:12 pm
PeterC wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:34 pm

Define realization of emptiness.

Also - which teachings have you received in this tradition?
I received all the teachings in this tradition including uncommon inconceivable yoga, body mandala and Phowa. Realisation of emptiness in the usual sense that all the lamas refer to when they teach. It means attaining the path of seeing.
If you received the teachings on the eleven yogas then you received the answer in the teachings. The lama who gave you the teachings would also have explained that the content of those teachings is not to be discussed with those who haven't received it.
I must have missed something. I see deeper aspect of Dzogchen being discussed here. Throma being discussed also. I thought the rule is that discussing the general aspects will be alright, just not to go into the detailed visualisations and practices.
PeterC
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by PeterC »

WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:29 pm
PeterC wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:11 pm
WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:12 pm

I received all the teachings in this tradition including uncommon inconceivable yoga, body mandala and Phowa. Realisation of emptiness in the usual sense that all the lamas refer to when they teach. It means attaining the path of seeing.
If you received the teachings on the eleven yogas then you received the answer in the teachings. The lama who gave you the teachings would also have explained that the content of those teachings is not to be discussed with those who haven't received it.
I must have missed something. I see deeper aspect of Dzogchen being discussed here. Throma being discussed also. I thought the rule is that discussing the general aspects will be alright, just not to go into the detailed visualisations and practices.
If you're talking about the uncommon Sakya tradition of Vajrayogini, that isn't Dzogchen and it isn't Throma Nagmo. And any Sakya lama that teaches it will be very explicit that all the teachings should be kept secret. Which is the default for anything requiring empowerment anyway. Rarely is there any benefit to talking about your practices in public.
Malcolm
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by Malcolm »

WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:50 am Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?
Only in the sense that you must realize emptiness in the bardo at the time of death or in the bardo. But not necessarily in this life.
WeiHan
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Re: Realising Emptiness as prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?

Post by WeiHan »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:56 pm
WeiHan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:50 am Is realisation of Emptiness, a prerequisite for attaining Narokacho pureland?
Only in the sense that you must realize emptiness in the bardo at the time of death or in the bardo. But not necessarily in this life.
Thankyou so much, Malcolm, for your clarification.
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