Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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ManiThePainter
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Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

Post by ManiThePainter »

Greetings,

I have been kinda curious about HH 41st Sakya Trizin's trilogy, "Freeing the Heart and Mind", and whether it would be worthwhile to study to get a good grasp of Sakya teachings.

Since I'm planning to move to the Pacific Northwest (BC, Canada) within the next year or so and since I'm planning to get more serious with dharma practice and study I've also been looking for good Tibetan Buddhist centres nearby. I know that the Sakya Monastery in Seattle is a local powerhouse and so I've been looking into the Sakya lineage a lot recently. While my primary interest is Dzogchen (I would really like to meet Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche in person), I also know that each school offers teachings of immense value and practicality. As such I thought it best to study the fundamentals with one school until I feel comfortable enough to start seeking additional teachings elsewhere.

Cheers,

- Mani
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

ManiThePainter wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:27 pm Greetings,

I have been kinda curious about HH 41st Sakya Trizin's trilogy, "Freeing the Heart and Mind", and whether it would be worthwhile to study to get a good grasp of Sakya teachings.

Since I'm planning to move to the Pacific Northwest (BC, Canada) within the next year or so and since I'm planning to get more serious with dharma practice and study I've also been looking for good Tibetan Buddhist centres nearby. I know that the Sakya Monastery in Seattle is a local powerhouse and so I've been looking into the Sakya lineage a lot recently. While my primary interest is Dzogchen (I would really like to meet Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche in person), I also know that each school offers teachings of immense value and practicality. As such I thought it best to study the fundamentals with one school until I feel comfortable enough to start seeking additional teachings elsewhere.

Cheers,

- Mani
You can partake of many teachings at Sakya Monastery without doing the formal Sakya path of Lamdre, etc. They are pretty open with some teachings, and it's a wonderful place to visit and be. I don't think there is much of anything going on in person right now due to the pandemic though, so check their website, they are doing some practices streaming.

I imagine if you're near you might be able to go circumambulate the stupa, I'd be doing it if I was near enough.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:08 am

You can partake of many teachings at Sakya Monastery without doing the formal Sakya path of Lamdre, etc. They are pretty open with some teachings, and it's a wonderful place to visit and be. I don't think there is much of anything going on in person right now due to the pandemic though, so check their website, they are doing some practices streaming.

I imagine if you're near you might be able to go circumambulate the stupa, I'd be doing it if I was near enough.
Thanks for the swift reply Johnny,

Yeah, I realize that not much will happen currently, what with the virus going around.

As for the Lamdre, I'm glad you brought it up; based on what I think I know it's a form of completion stage HYT (or at least it culminates in that). While I have read up a bit on Dzogchen (almost exclusively ChNN), I get the impression that the result of the completion stage is the same as in Dzogchen (bear with me if this is wrong). As such, would Lamdre and Dzogchen be mutually exclusive or complementary to each other?
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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ManiThePainter wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:26 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:08 am

You can partake of many teachings at Sakya Monastery without doing the formal Sakya path of Lamdre, etc. They are pretty open with some teachings, and it's a wonderful place to visit and be. I don't think there is much of anything going on in person right now due to the pandemic though, so check their website, they are doing some practices streaming.

I imagine if you're near you might be able to go circumambulate the stupa, I'd be doing it if I was near enough.
Thanks for the swift reply Johnny,

Yeah, I realize that not much will happen currently, what with the virus going around.

As for the Lamdre, I'm glad you brought it up; based on what I think I know it's a form of completion stage HYT (or at least it culminates in that). While I have read up a bit on Dzogchen (almost exclusively ChNN), I get the impression that the result of the completion stage is the same as in Dzogchen (bear with me if this is wrong). As such, would Lamdre and Dzogchen be mutually exclusive or complementary to each other?

My two cents:

It depends on who you ask. I go to a Sakya (well, Rime also) Dharma center in town and have for 8 years, I'm pretty connected to the Sakya lineage and it is important to me. I chose not to go the HYT/Lamdre route simply because the byzantine structure and because truthfully, I am just not all that into doing sadhana and complex practices.

I consider ChNN my root guru and his approach to Dzogchen in particular is definitely what I consider my home spiritually. However, I have practiced one Sakya sadhana for years (as well as having a ton of empowerments) and it is a major thing for me, as is my connection to the lineage and teachers. I received it from Dagchen Rinpoche before he passed and I plan on keeping my commitments regarding it, which were minimal anyway.

After ChNN my approach to sadhana certainly changed, but the one I do is annutara, and I definitely don't feel it's somehow in contradiction to Dzogchen. The thing is, Sarma Tantra is much more "do this only like so", especially when you're talking Kriya Tantra and stuff, so I think ultimately you have to pursue what resonates with you, after consulting with teachers etc. I know some people have run deeply into both. I'm a bum who doesn't like being fussed over details, so the By The Numbers approach is less for me.

Seriously though, the Sakya lineage has some serious mojo. Taking teachings from HHST 41 and Dagchen Rinpoche was a big for me at least, there is no reason to not take advantage of that if it is available to you, even if you don't plan on getting the more extensive Hevajra, Lamdre, Chakrasamvara etc...and it does not somehow contradict Dzogchen, you just have to choose where to put your energies, because there is only so much time.

Many of the shorter empowerments given at the monastery can be attended almost as a practice, and often do not carry commitments. I assume those will start up again in some capacity post-covid. In Sakya there is no requirement of 100,000 ngondro before most empowerment, except (as I understand) on an individual level maybe. So, there is really no downside whatsoever to getting exposed to this lineage, it is special and well worth your time to make the connection to the monastery if you will be near.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

Post by ManiThePainter »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 am
My two cents:

It depends on who you ask. I go to a Sakya (well, Rime also) Dharma center in town and have for 8 years, I'm pretty connected to the Sakya lineage and it is important to me. I chose not to go the HYT/Lamdre route simply because the byzantine structure and because truthfully, I am just not all that into doing sadhana and complex practices.

I consider ChNN my root guru and his approach to Dzogchen in particular is definitely what I consider my home spiritually. However, I have practiced one Sakya sadhana for years (as well as having a ton of empowerments) and it is a major thing for me, as is my connection to the lineage and teachers. I received it from Dagchen Rinpoche before he passed and I plan on keeping my commitments regarding it, which were minimal anyway.

After ChNN my approach to sadhana certainly changed, but the one I do is annutara, and I definitely don't feel it's somehow in contradiction to Dzogchen. The thing is, Sarma Tantra is much more "do this only like so", especially when you're talking Kriya Tantra and stuff, so I think ultimately you have to pursue what resonates with you, after consulting with teachers etc. I know some people have run deeply into both. I'm a bum who doesn't like being fussed over details, so the By The Numbers approach is less for me.

Seriously though, the Sakya lineage has some serious mojo. Taking teachings from HHST 41 and Dagchen Rinpoche was a big for me at least, there is no reason to not take advantage of that if it is available to you, even if you don't plan on getting the more extensive Hevajra, Lamdre, Chakrasamvara etc...and it does not somehow contradict Dzogchen, you just have to choose where to put your energies, because there is only so much time.

Many of the shorter empowerments given at the monastery can be attended almost as a practice, and often do not carry commitments. In Sakya there is no 100,000 ngondro before most empowerments, except (as I understand) on an individual level maybe. So, there is really no downside whatsoever to getting exposed to this lineage, it is special and well worth your time to make the connection to the monastery if you will be near.
i very much appreciate you sharing your personal experience. As it is, Vajrayana is still a very abstract entity for me as I'm trying to root myself in common Mahayana first. However, I know that I will eventually begin Vajrayana/Dzogchen once I've found a teacher that I like. I therefore try not to read too much or too deeply beforehand. Still, I think it is important to at least have an idea of what I'm getting myself into but it is hard to strike a balance between responsible preparation and reading too much.

Seeing as I would like to check out the Sakya Monastery I also thought it at least respectful to get an idea about the lineage first. I looked at the thread about Sakya books and there's some good suggestions that I'll have to read (Three Visions especially, unless that is restricted).

But the information you've given me is duly noted and will be considered.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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Three visions is unrestricted. If you get Three Levels of Spiritual Perception you get Deshung Rinpoches commentary as well.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:14 am Three visions is unrestricted. If you get Three Levels of Spiritual Perception you get Deshung Rinpoches commentary as well.
Thanks Johnny.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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ManiThePainter wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:32 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:14 am Three visions is unrestricted. If you get Three Levels of Spiritual Perception you get Deshung Rinpoches commentary as well.
Thanks Johnny.
Sure, BTW, if you poke around the Sakya.org website you can get on their mailing list. It looks like there's some Zoom groups and classes and they are streaming Chenrezig practice. So there is some virtual stuff going on that you could take advantage right now I think.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

Post by ManiThePainter »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:56 pm
Sure, BTW, if you poke around the Sakya.org website you can get on their mailing list. It looks like there's some Zoom groups and classes and they are streaming Chenrezig practice. So there is some virtual stuff going on that you could take advantage right now I think.
Yeah, I've visited the site after you brought it up. It looks quite lovely. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend even zoom classes and be serious until I've finished my Master's by December.

Still, I'm curious as to what would be an appropriate amount of time to spend at the monastery as a layman. I was thinking that, once I've settled in BC, I'd drop by once every month or two months for a long weekend, while also going to see a local Pema Lingpa lineage Nyingma lama in Canada every so often.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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ManiThePainter wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:03 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:56 pm
Sure, BTW, if you poke around the Sakya.org website you can get on their mailing list. It looks like there's some Zoom groups and classes and they are streaming Chenrezig practice. So there is some virtual stuff going on that you could take advantage right now I think.
Yeah, I've visited the site after you brought it up. It looks quite lovely. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend even zoom classes and be serious until I've finished my Master's by December.

Still, I'm curious as to what would be an appropriate amount of time to spend at the monastery as a layman. I was thinking that, once I've settled in BC, I'd drop by once every month or two months for a long weekend, while also going to see a local Pema Lingpa lineage Nyingma lama in Canada every so often.
The people I've known who attend regularly go to services, volunteer, etc. I don't think there's any set time, just go to some practices and meet people etc. It's a pretty welcoming place, in my experience. Some culture shock if you're new to Tibetan Buddhism maybe. They used to have a weekly darshan thing, and that's a good intro to the monastery. That's not going on now of course. It was very crowded during empowerments of course, I don't know what normal attendance pre-covid looks like.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:55 am
The people I've known who attend regularly go to services, volunteer, etc. I don't think there's any set time, just go to some practices and meet people etc. It's a pretty welcoming place, in my experience. Some culture shock if you're new to Tibetan Buddhism maybe. They used to have a weekly darshan thing, and that's a good intro to the monastery. That's not going on now of course. It was very crowded during empowerments of course, I don't know what normal attendance pre-covid looks like.
That sounds good. Hopefully when I get my first chance to visit (probably in a year's time) things will look at little different Covid-wise.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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As you are going to be living in British Columbia, Jetsum Kusho has a very active center in Richmond, BC. Jetsum Kusho is the sister of Sakya Trichen, the mother of Luding Khen Rinpoche and the grandmother of Shabdrung Luding Rinpoche but much more than that she is a very great teacher and practioner. She is especially renown as a Vajrayogini master. She is currently in India with her brother but when this virus business calms down she will be back and an opportunity to meet her is not to be missed. As Sakya monastery in Seattle is my home center, I second Johnny's recommendation.
The Pacific Northwest is rich in dharma especially in the Sakya tradition but Dzogchen is spoken here also.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

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namtose wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:22 pm
The Pacific Northwest is rich in dharma especially in the Sakya tradition but Dzogchen is spoken here also.
Could you give more some more information about that? I plan on attending some of Tsoknyi Rinpoche's US Dzogchen retreats (virus permitting) but obviously it's good to have other references.
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Re: Freeing the Heart and Mind 1-3 by HH 41st Sakya Trizin

Post by namtose »

We have a number of Nyingma centers in Seattle and the surrounding area. Tulku Yeshi leads the Heruka Institute which offers and number of free online classes and events. Currently he is teaching Khunu Rinpoche's Vast as the Heavens, Deep as the Sea part 32 ... the text is wonderful if you are familiar with it and you can jump in anytime. It's a nice way to see Tulku-la's teaching style and personality. Chagdud Gompa Amrita is wonderful and Choga Rinpoche and Kilung Rinpoche all have centers in the area.

A good local resource the the Northwest Dharma Association which has useful directory of all the Buddhist groups in the area.
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