Sakya & Shangpa
Sakya & Shangpa
Are there any contemporary Sakya masters that practise Shangpa? Or is Shangpa only practised by Kagyup masters now?
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
many great sakya lamas transmit and teach shangpa.we have to know it is mainly through sakya and jonang(which is also deep rooted from Sakya)that the shangpa teachings have been transmitted without broken.
nowadays there is a nigu chodrup retreat center belongs to dzongsar gompa in Kham.
nowadays there is a nigu chodrup retreat center belongs to dzongsar gompa in Kham.
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Good to hear that there are Sakya centers that uphold the Shangpa path, esp. retreat centers! Many masters from all lineages--including Nyingma and Geluk--maintain Shangpa practices as well. But I must say, it was Kyabje Dorje Chang Kalu Rinpoche, and his successors, who have spread the Shangpa far and wide. These days, there are several Shangpa retreat centers in India, Sikkim, etc., and also in Europe and the Americas. Really, for those of us with a connection to the Shangpa, it was Kongtrul and Jamyang Khyentse who together saved this tradition from fading away, and their successors are maintaining it to this day.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
When the current Kalu R was here he spoke about Lama Tsongkhapa’s main student (Jhedrup Ke?) having written a major commentary on 6 Arm Mahakala. I was pleasantly surprised about that.Many masters from all lineages--including Nyingma and Geluk--maintain Shangpa practices as well.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
In fact, Mahakala Chagdrupa is the main protector of Tsong Khapa's lineage, the protector of "Highest Scope" for the Geluk tradition. Chagdrupa has many lineages, it's probably the most widespread Shangpa transmission. The Gelukpas favor the NyingShuk form, iconographically--this is actually a fairly rare transmission from among the Shangpa Mahakala Transmissions (there are said to be 13 transmissions in the Shangpa Mahakala tradition).smcj wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:00 pmWhen the current Kalu R was here he spoke about Lama Tsongkhapa’s main student (Jhedrup Ke?) having written a major commentary on 6 Arm Mahakala. I was pleasantly surprised about that.Many masters from all lineages--including Nyingma and Geluk--maintain Shangpa practices as well.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche has received the entire Shangpa Kagyu lineage from the previous Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche.
Not sure whether you would label him as a "Sakya master" or not being that he has also been born into hardliner Nyingma and Kagyu families and practices those lineages as well. However, being recognized initially by HH the sakya trinzin and completing education in the Sakya.
HHST and DJKR are also lineage holders of the Thangtong Nyengyu (ear whispered lineage) which passes down via Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo. Thangtong Gyalpo Rinpoche is connected with the Shangpa Kagyu.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa
Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Thank you so much for the info everyone
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse also was a Sakya master, you know, though identified primarily as Nyingma. He also practiced Shangpa, and even wrote a beautiful dedication prayer for the Shangpa transmissions.
A lama told me, once, that the Shangpa practices are "inner practices" of many great lamas in all schools.
A lama told me, once, that the Shangpa practices are "inner practices" of many great lamas in all schools.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Cone
Tai Situ Rinpoche seems to be one of the main holders of the Shangpa Kagyu these days, and I believe was the main one who transmitted the lineage to the current Kalu Yangsi Rinpoche
Do you know whether it was the the previous Kalu Rinpoche or the 16th Karmapa from whom Tai Situ Rinpoche received the lineage from?
Do you also know from whom the previous Kalu Rinpoche received the Shangpa Kagyu tradition?
Tai Situ Rinpoche seems to be one of the main holders of the Shangpa Kagyu these days, and I believe was the main one who transmitted the lineage to the current Kalu Yangsi Rinpoche
Do you know whether it was the the previous Kalu Rinpoche or the 16th Karmapa from whom Tai Situ Rinpoche received the lineage from?
Do you also know from whom the previous Kalu Rinpoche received the Shangpa Kagyu tradition?
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
When Chogyi Trichen Rinpoche visited Australia he gave an Chenrezig empowerment from the Shangpa tradition .
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
I believe Situ Rinpoche gave the transmission to Yangsi Kalu Rinpoche, and also I believe Bokar Rinpoche gave him the transmission as well. Have not confirmed that, but it would make sense, as Yangsi Kalu was in retreat at Mirik. I am certain that Khenpo Lodro Donyo Rinpoche also was instrumental in instructing Yangsi Kalu Rinpoche, as well.Sonam Wangchug wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:12 am Cone
Tai Situ Rinpoche seems to be one of the main holders of the Shangpa Kagyu these days, and I believe was the main one who transmitted the lineage to the current Kalu Yangsi Rinpoche
Do you know whether it was the the previous Kalu Rinpoche or the 16th Karmapa from whom Tai Situ Rinpoche received the lineage from?
Do you also know from whom the previous Kalu Rinpoche received the Shangpa Kagyu tradition?
Tai Situ Rinpoche received the Shangpa from Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche, for sure, as did all the heart sons. I imagine he got parts of it from HHGK as well, but don't know for sure. I do know Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche gave all the Heart Sons the transmission of DamNgak Dzo and Rinchen Terdzo, etc.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
aussiebloke wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:38 am When Chogyi Trichen Rinpoche visited Australia he gave an Chenrezig empowerment from the Shangpa tradition .
Kyergangpa's Tradition of Avalokiteshvara? That's somewhat uncommon to encounter, and not part of the three year retreat curriculum, usually.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Sakya & Shangpa
The 17th incarnation of Drupthob Thangtong Gyalpo, Ngawang Thinley Lhundrup http://thangtong.org/our-story/lineage/ ... -lhundrup/, who stays here in Bhutan is a holder of the Shangpa lineage and since he was educated at the Sakya College and one of his main teaches is the 41st Sakya Tridzin you might call him a Sakya lama too.
Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Yes, of course. All the main Shangpa empowerments can be found within the Collection of All Methods of Accomplishment (sgrub thabs kun btus) & the Collection of All Tantras (rgyud sde kun btus) compiled by the Sakya lamas Jamyang Loter Wangpo and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo - and these collections and practices are widely transmitted in the Sakya tradition.mingweicello wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:37 pm many great sakya lamas transmit and teach shangpa.we have to know it is mainly through sakya and jonang(which is also deep rooted from Sakya)that the shangpa teachings have been transmitted without broken.
nowadays there is a nigu chodrup retreat center belongs to dzongsar gompa in Kham.
These two collections were compiled at about the same time as Jamgon Kongtrui's Dam Ngag Dzo, (gdams ngag mdzod).
Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Coneconebeckham wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:10 pm Good to hear that there are Sakya centers that uphold the Shangpa path, esp. retreat centers! Many masters from all lineages--including Nyingma and Geluk--maintain Shangpa practices as well. But I must say, it was Kyabje Dorje Chang Kalu Rinpoche, and his successors, who have spread the Shangpa far and wide. These days, there are several Shangpa retreat centers in India, Sikkim, etc., and also in Europe and the Americas. Really, for those of us with a connection to the Shangpa, it was Kongtrul and Jamyang Khyentse who together saved this tradition from fading away, and their successors are maintaining it to this day.
Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche told me almost 50 yeas ago that he had many secret or unknown disciples in different lineages. He also mentioned that there was a Shangpa retreat for Geluk lamas established near Dharamsala where he gave the empowerments and teachings and that all the lamas who went into that retreat went in for at least 12 years and some for whole life (tshe mtshams) ~ so they must be counted as pretty serious practitioners of the Shangpa tradition.
HE Beru Khyentse Rinpoche received all the Shangpa empowerments and teachings from Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche, and he completed both the 3 year retreats for Karma Kagyu and Shangpa Kagyu traditions.
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Hi Chris-CFynn wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:40 pmConeconebeckham wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:10 pm Good to hear that there are Sakya centers that uphold the Shangpa path, esp. retreat centers! Many masters from all lineages--including Nyingma and Geluk--maintain Shangpa practices as well. But I must say, it was Kyabje Dorje Chang Kalu Rinpoche, and his successors, who have spread the Shangpa far and wide. These days, there are several Shangpa retreat centers in India, Sikkim, etc., and also in Europe and the Americas. Really, for those of us with a connection to the Shangpa, it was Kongtrul and Jamyang Khyentse who together saved this tradition from fading away, and their successors are maintaining it to this day.
Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche told me almost 50 yeas ago that he had many secret or unknown disciples in different lineages. He also mentioned that there was a Shangpa retreat for Geluk lamas established near Dharamsala where he gave the empowerments and teachings and that all the lamas who went into that retreat went in for at least 12 years and some for whole life (tshe mtshams) ~ so they must be counted as pretty serious practitioners of the Shangpa tradition.
HE Beru Khyentse Rinpoche received all the Shangpa empowerments and teachings from Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche, and he completed both the 3 year retreats for Karma Kagyu and Shangpa Kagyu traditions.
Thanks. I also heard this, and there are many lamas from all the institutional schools who incorporate Shangpa practices into their sessions, for sure. Most of them keep the Shangpa hidden. You probably know this, but Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche also had a connection the Shangpa, and wrote an aspiration monlam as well. Still, it seems to be mainly transmitted as a practice lineage, and that makes me happy.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Sakya & Shangpa
Hi Coneconebeckham wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:42 pm Hi Chris-
Thanks. I also heard this, and there are many lamas from all the institutional schools who incorporate Shangpa practices into their sessions, for sure. Most of them keep the Shangpa hidden. You probably know this, but Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche also had a connection the Shangpa, and wrote an aspiration monlam as well. Still, it seems to be mainly transmitted as a practice lineage, and that makes me happy.
When Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche transmitted Kongtrul's Dam Ngag Dzo, the main commitment he gave everyone attending was to practice the Shangpa gyud sde lha lnga - he also wrote a short sadhana for this which may be found in his collected works.
- conebeckham
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Re: Sakya & Shangpa
That's interesting! Surprised, somewhat, that it was not Lha Shi Dril Drup, but......CFynn wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:01 pmHi Coneconebeckham wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:42 pm Hi Chris-
Thanks. I also heard this, and there are many lamas from all the institutional schools who incorporate Shangpa practices into their sessions, for sure. Most of them keep the Shangpa hidden. You probably know this, but Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche also had a connection the Shangpa, and wrote an aspiration monlam as well. Still, it seems to be mainly transmitted as a practice lineage, and that makes me happy.
When Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche transmitted Kongtrul's Dam Ngag Dzo, the main commitment he gave everyone attending was to practice the Shangpa gyud sde lha lnga - he also wrote a short sadhana for this which may be found in his collected works.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")