Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

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James84
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Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by James84 »

Is Gampo Abbey a truly Karma Kagyu monastery? Or are they still wrapped up with Shambhala and Chogyam Trungpa? As far as I am aware it is one of two monasteries in the Kagyu lineage for westerners, but if they are still involved with Sakyong/Shambhala it may be best avoided I would assume? Pema Chodron seems to be outspoken about the Shambhala drama, but there website still seems a little bit on the Shambhala side.
GrapeLover
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by GrapeLover »

As you note, their website (which seems to be kept very up to date) prominently and repeatedly mentions being in the lineage of Trungpa, calling him Vidyadhara etc. On its About Us page, it also states:
Under the spiritual guidance of Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche holder of the Shambhala lineage
the Abbey community is committed to developing monasticism within the tradition of Shambhala Buddhism
Elsewhere:
Our educational training is based on the Shambhala terma teachings of our founder, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, and teachings of Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche
Definitely doesn't seem the place to be if you are averse to CTR and Shambhala.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

As far as I am aware it is one of two monasteries in the Kagyu lineage for westerners,
Where’d you get that idea? In terms of Karma Kagyu here’s KTD in Woodstock NY, and PTC in Wappingers Falls NY, to start. There are plenty of other sizable centers and 3 year retreats that may fall short of the definition of “monastery” but function well to serve westerners.

Then there are other flavors of Kagyu as well: Barom, Shangpa, etc. So no, that’s just not true.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Nicholas2727
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Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:55 pm
As far as I am aware it is one of two monasteries in the Kagyu lineage for westerners,
Where’d you get that idea? In terms of Karma Kagyu here’s KTD in Woodstock NY, and PTC in Wappingers Falls NY, to start. There are plenty of other sizable centers and 3 year retreats that may fall short of the definition of “monastery” but function well to serve westerners.

Then there are other flavors of Kagyu as well: Barom, Shangpa, etc. So no, that’s just not true.
Is KTD in New York a monastery tho? I thought it was the Karmapa's main seat here in the United States, but does not serve as a full time monastery. I have seen some mentions of three year retreats held there, but not sure of monastic training.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

KTD is a monastery. It has monks living there. Most of them have done 3 year retreat. They do daily and specialty practices befitting a traditional monastery.

Historically Tibetan monasteries were the center of the culture, government, some commerce, and religion. KTD has public programs

KTD’s 3 year retreats are at a different location called Karma Ling. It’s in Delhi NY.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Nicholas2727
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:07 am KTD is a monastery. It has monks living there. Most of them have done 3 year retreat. They do daily and specialty practices befitting a traditional monastery.

Historically Tibetan monasteries were the center of the culture, government, some commerce, and religion. KTD has public programs

KTD’s 3 year retreats are at a different location called Karma Ling. It’s in Delhi NY.
Do most of the westerners enter a three year retreat then ordain at KTD? Or is this a monastery where those who are already ordained can stay? Looking on their website it seems only one westerner (Lama Zopa Tarchin) is a resident teacher there, but I am not sure if there are many western students living and studying there.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Covid may have changed things. I can ask and get back to you tomorrow.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Nicholas2727
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:23 am Covid may have changed things. I can ask and get back to you tomorrow.
Thank you. Are you currently staying there? Spending more time on this website I have started to see names more often and notice you are pretty active in the Kagyu tradition
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Right now I’m at Karma Ling for a few more days. These people know what’s going on at KTD.

It will be more like W-Th before I get back to you. I won’t see anyone tomorrow.

********

BTW I’m a Karma Kagyupa, but in general I’m not the most reliable source of information about it. There’s a poster here called Conebeckham who is a much better source of information.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
windoverwater
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:08 am
Location: northeast USA

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by windoverwater »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:55 am Right now I’m at Karma Ling for a few more days. These people know what’s going on at KTD.
When is the next 3-year retreat at Karme Ling scheduled to begin?
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Nothing in 2022.

PTC has one starting in a few months.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
TsultimNamdak
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:59 pm

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by TsultimNamdak »

Regarding Gampo Abbey: I don't know what role, if any, the Sakyong currently plays at Gampo Abbey, but they recognize Thrangu Rinpoche as the Abbot. Also, Pema Chodrön is mentioned as a main teacher on their website. I would be very surprised if Thrangu Rinpoche teaches Shambhala teachings, and Pema Chodrön has stepped down from Shambhala because of the Sakyong becoming active again. I wouldn't be too nervous about going there but I would probably ask about the Shambhala connection if I went.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Do most of the westerners enter a three year retreat then ordain at KTD? Or is this a monastery where those who are already ordained can stay? Looking on their website it seems only one westerner (Lama Zopa Tarchin) is a resident teacher there, but I am not sure if there are many western students living and studying there.
I'm told there's a small handful of westerners that currently live at KTD. They all have staff positions, like bookstore, maintenance, cook, etc. A couple of them have done 3 year retreat, but that's not required to be staff.

A little south of Poughkeepsie there's PTC, which is both a monastery and 3 year retreat on the same property. Residents there are either people getting ready to do a 3 year retreat, or people that have completed a retreat and have decided to stay. They are all expected to do work of one sort or another. That includes participating in daily and specialty chanting, as well as mundane tasks like cooking, accounting, maintenance, etc. An example of specialty changing is this weekend. They're doing a special 3 day long Tara practice for averting obstacle. The only exception to this focus on retreat is me, and I got special permission to live there without any retreat because I'd been coming since the '80s. But I both pay rent and have an quota of work to do on the property every week, so it's not as if I'm getting a free ride.

I don't know anything about Gampo Abbey. But I do know at one point Pema Chödron resigned from Shambhala in protest.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Terma
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Terma »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:12 pm A little south of Poughkeepsie there's PTC, which is both a monastery and 3 year retreat on the same property. Residents there are either people getting ready to do a 3 year retreat, or people that have completed a retreat and have decided to stay. They are all expected to do work of one sort or another. That includes participating in daily and specialty chanting, as well as mundane tasks like cooking, accounting, maintenance, etc. An example of specialty changing is this weekend. They're doing a special 3 day long Tara practice for averting obstacle. The only exception to this focus on retreat is me, and I got special permission to live there without any retreat because I'd been coming since the '80s. But I both pay rent and have an quota of work to do on the property every week, so it's not as if I'm getting a free ride.
I rejoice in your merit!

I visited this monastery several years ago on a Friday evening when I was in the area for teachings at a different center. Very beautiful place, both inside and outside. In the main gompa, I really liked how the individual thangka's that were hanging from up high made up the field of refuge.

The stupa outside is marvelous as well. I don't remember, but I think there are relics inside? I certainly did a few "kora" around. And I got the most picturesque shot of the stupa overlooking the river at sunset.
Nicholas2727
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:12 pm
Do most of the westerners enter a three year retreat then ordain at KTD? Or is this a monastery where those who are already ordained can stay? Looking on their website it seems only one westerner (Lama Zopa Tarchin) is a resident teacher there, but I am not sure if there are many western students living and studying there.
I'm told there's a small handful of westerners that currently live at KTD. They all have staff positions, like bookstore, maintenance, cook, etc. A couple of them have done 3 year retreat, but that's not required to be staff.

A little south of Poughkeepsie there's PTC, which is both a monastery and 3 year retreat on the same property. Residents there are either people getting ready to do a 3 year retreat, or people that have completed a retreat and have decided to stay. They are all expected to do work of one sort or another. That includes participating in daily and specialty chanting, as well as mundane tasks like cooking, accounting, maintenance, etc. An example of specialty changing is this weekend. They're doing a special 3 day long Tara practice for averting obstacle. The only exception to this focus on retreat is me, and I got special permission to live there without any retreat because I'd been coming since the '80s. But I both pay rent and have an quota of work to do on the property every week, so it's not as if I'm getting a free ride.

I don't know anything about Gampo Abbey. But I do know at one point Pema Chödron resigned from Shambhala in protest.
Thank you for the reply! I was unaware of PTC but after looking at some pictures it looks like a great place to visit. I plan on going to New York over summer so maybe I will be able to check it out. Is it more of a retreat center tho or a monastery? It seems most of the people there are getting prepared for a three year retreat or have finished and are staying there, but does it also serve as a monastery or place to visit for those not looking to do retreat? It seems many Kagyu monastics enter a three year retreat here in the West from what I have seen, but not sure how accurate that observation is
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

…but does it also serve as a monastery or place to visit for those not looking to do retreat?
Pre-Covid you could come and stay. However most of the residents are in their60s and 70s, so the hysteria about Covid is quite high. They have opened for day visitors but I don’t know when they’re going to open up again for overnight guests.
It seems many Kagyu monastics enter a three year retreat here in the West from what I have seen, but not sure how accurate that observation is
Temporary ordination is required during the retreat. Some people keep their vows when they leave. I don’t know what the percentages are.

I suspect you’re reading more into being a monk than is accurate. After someone takes Refuge, technically the next day they can become a monk. However there are no mundane benefits to that. In the West you still have to pay rent in some way, shape, or form. If you don’t have a trust fund or pension you’re going to work 40+ hours a week. You might as well have a regular job and get paid for it.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Nicholas2727
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:51 am
…but does it also serve as a monastery or place to visit for those not looking to do retreat?
Pre-Covid you could come and stay. However most of the residents are in their60s and 70s, so the hysteria about Covid is quite high. They have opened for day visitors but I don’t know when they’re going to open up again for overnight guests.
It seems many Kagyu monastics enter a three year retreat here in the West from what I have seen, but not sure how accurate that observation is
Temporary ordination is required during the retreat. Some people keep their vows when they leave. I don’t know what the percentages are.

I suspect you’re reading more into being a monk than is accurate. After someone takes Refuge, technically the next day they can become a monk. However there are no mundane benefits to that. In the West you still have to pay rent in some way, shape, or form. If you don’t have a trust fund or pension you’re going to work 40+ hours a week. You might as well have a regular job and get paid for it.
I would most likely just come as a day visitor to see the place as I pass through. Looks beautiful so it would be great to spend a little time there. When I get closer to traveling ill send an email to see what is happening at that time.

I see. I often see under the descriptions of many Kagyu monastics here in the west that they completed a three year retreat and have taken monastic vows and maybe misunderstood some of what I have read. It is sad that there are many monastics who spend time at a full time job while balancing monastic life. Maybe changes in the future.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I would most likely just come as a day visitor to see the place as I pass through. Looks beautiful so it would be great to spend a little time there. When I get closer to traveling ill send an email to see what is happening at that time.
Good idea. No telling what our Covid protocols will be like going forward.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
KC:
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Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:01 am

Re: Gampo Abbey, yay or nay

Post by KC: »

I was in touch with directors / office staff just a couple of weeks ago. They were fully into yarne.

I'm sure they've been rocked by what's going on in Shambhala but seems to me everything's still ticking over ... including the retreat center.

--KC:
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