Kagyu Lineages

Arnoud
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Arnoud »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:04 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:40 pm But I catch your meaning. We put way too much importance on some woo woo power of so and so when it's not important at all.
Yes, especially since it is not our power. Patrul Rinpoche discusses this in terms of pride, people boasting about their gurus as if their gurus' qualities rubs off on them.

It is as you say, if one understands the signs of the practices, it is pretty easy to know if one has reached this or that level of realization. But we are never supposed to say what that is.

Occasionally, however, some masters like Longchenpa, Tsongkhapa, or Khyentse Wangpo do let slip what realization they have attained in order to inspire disciples.
Is that why a lot of lamas now say the signs are more compassion, less grasping and more devotion?
It seems a little contradictory as well when the signs are seeing this and that but then people get told what they experience is just a nyam and need to just keep practicing. I guess ultimately they are all nyams until Buddhahood.
Natan
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Natan »

Arnoud wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:52 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:04 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:40 pm But I catch your meaning. We put way too much importance on some woo woo power of so and so when it's not important at all.
Yes, especially since it is not our power. Patrul Rinpoche discusses this in terms of pride, people boasting about their gurus as if their gurus' qualities rubs off on them.

It is as you say, if one understands the signs of the practices, it is pretty easy to know if one has reached this or that level of realization. But we are never supposed to say what that is.

Occasionally, however, some masters like Longchenpa, Tsongkhapa, or Khyentse Wangpo do let slip what realization they have attained in order to inspire disciples.
Is that why a lot of lamas now say the signs are more compassion, less grasping and more devotion?
It seems a little contradictory as well when the signs are seeing this and that but then people get told what they experience is just a nyam and need to just keep practicing. I guess ultimately they are all nyams until Buddhahood.
I was told by HH Taklung Matul Rinpoche that an old hermit came to his enthronement ceremony and gave him a gift of solid gold in the form of a log of human feces. HH said the guy was a Kalachakra man. Not sure how he knew that. But he said the hermit delivered his gift and promptly left without saying a word. The lesson was never speak about one's own siddhis or your gold turns to shit.
Malcolm
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Malcolm »

Arnoud wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:52 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:04 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:40 pm But I catch your meaning. We put way too much importance on some woo woo power of so and so when it's not important at all.
Yes, especially since it is not our power. Patrul Rinpoche discusses this in terms of pride, people boasting about their gurus as if their gurus' qualities rubs off on them.

It is as you say, if one understands the signs of the practices, it is pretty easy to know if one has reached this or that level of realization. But we are never supposed to say what that is.

Occasionally, however, some masters like Longchenpa, Tsongkhapa, or Khyentse Wangpo do let slip what realization they have attained in order to inspire disciples.
Is that why a lot of lamas now say the signs are more compassion, less grasping and more devotion?
It seems a little contradictory as well when the signs are seeing this and that but then people get told what they experience is just a nyam and need to just keep practicing. I guess ultimately they are all nyams until Buddhahood.
There are signs of the mundane stages of the path, and signs of the transcendent stages of the path. For example, having dreams of purification when doing Vajrasattva are not transcendent signs. The latter only manifest when one has attained the first bodhisattva stage. The main teaching of every tradition has a detailed explanation of these in their Varjayāna paths and stages literature.
Arnoud
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Arnoud »

Thank you.
Danny
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Danny »

There’s a few kagyu lineages that got folded into the main Kagyu lineages.
Gampopa founded the first Kagyu monastery, Daklha Gampo in southern Tibet. Following Gampopa the tradition split into multiple autonomous subsects known as the four primary Barom, Pakdru, Karma, and Tselpa, and eight secondary traditions Drigung, Drukpa, Martsang, Shukseb, Taklung, Tropu, Yabzang, and Yelpa Kagyu.

https://treasuryoflives.org/tradition/Marpa-Kagyu
Last edited by Danny on Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »


But I knew the 16th and he wouldn’t have done this..
I find it difficult to believe the 17th was responsible for this—if it’s true.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Pårl
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Pårl »

I'm not sure if it's the right thread to append a relative newbie question, but thought perhaps it responses would be more easily found within this thread which has an all-encompassing title.

So here's my (simple?) question, as of today, what are the actual practising schools of Kagyu you are likely to find in western countries?
Arnoud
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Arnoud »

Karma, Drukpa, Shangpa, Drikung, Zurmang, Barom, Taklung. They all have centers in the west.
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Pårl
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Pårl »

Thanks Arnoud.
Arnoud
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Arnoud »

Pårl wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:20 pmThanks Arnoud.
Graag gedaan.
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Pårl
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Re: Kagyu Lineages

Post by Pårl »

8-)
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