If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

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Virgo
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by Virgo »

coldbeer wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:02 am Inspirational posts, thanks. It is true i am suffering from severe laziness these days and can make better effort. I can start eating more nutritious vegetarian meals, not to feel superior but to make myself feel healthier both mentally and physically with the added benefit of helping the planet in a small miniscule way.
I have fruit with breakfast, so I am doing pretty darn good if you ask me. :)

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muni
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by muni »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:03 am
coldbeer wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:20 am I think if I adopted a vegetarian lifestyle all it would do is delude me into thinking "I am such a nice and compassionate person now" and make my ego stronger. Barf.
I think there's a danger in the west for people coming to buddhism, and once they hear teachings on the ultimate nature of things they tend to throw away relative compassion, thinking it is based in duality and is therefore inferior. But as so many great masters keep warning us, this is a big mistake. Until we realize shunyata experientially, how could we throw away situations that can help us foster real compassion? We can use conventional situations to foster real compassion and bodhicitta. We don't have to think, "This is all emptiness... Believing in the reality of this and that would only bolster my ego, so I won't involve myself in such things." How else are we going to foster compassion if not seeing and contemplating the suffering of others?

Relative compassion is MUCH better than no compassion at all. And nondualistic compassion is quite a high view... can we really get there without having any compassion in the first place?

Many great masters of the Mahayana tell us that until we reach the realization of ultimate bodhicitta, we should rely on relative bodhicitta. And if we're doing it properly, the ultimate bodhicitta will be mixed in with the relative. (From Dilgo Khyentse's commentary on the 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva, at the beginning of the section on Bodhicitta)

Vegetarianism shouldn't be about social posturing. It's not about identity of "I'm a vegetarian." Not at all... It's about the animals.
:good:
Conventional is not low or so.
As well like Padma and.. said. Because how Bodhicitta could be possible when the outside world is/remains separate of "us", and therefore not "our" business? How can there "be out", of what?

Since practice of conventional compassion opens the door of careless selfishness, in order to realize nongrasping nondual nature-Bodhicitta. The conventional and the Absolute are actually not two.

I can agree somehow with what Malcolm said, about completely avoiding meat, if eating the meat, by the genuine care for the animal, ( Tsok) a glymps of nondual openess...sorry I cannot form my sentence correct.

Of course this is not the same as keeping the meat production going on what causes so many animals to have an awful life, being treaten as meat only.

I heard this: life is a dream, but be kind for all in it, in order to awaken. That is 'high' enough.

Respecting Karmapa.

:anjali:
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coldbeer
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by coldbeer »

Virgo wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:02 am
coldbeer wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:02 am Inspirational posts, thanks. It is true i am suffering from severe laziness these days and can make better effort. I can start eating more nutritious vegetarian meals, not to feel superior but to make myself feel healthier both mentally and physically with the added benefit of helping the planet in a small miniscule way.
I have fruit with breakfast, so I am doing pretty darn good if you ask me. :)

Virgo
I need to eat more fruit.
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Virgo
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by Virgo »

coldbeer wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:13 pm
Virgo wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:02 am
coldbeer wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:02 am Inspirational posts, thanks. It is true i am suffering from severe laziness these days and can make better effort. I can start eating more nutritious vegetarian meals, not to feel superior but to make myself feel healthier both mentally and physically with the added benefit of helping the planet in a small miniscule way.
I have fruit with breakfast, so I am doing pretty darn good if you ask me. :)

Virgo
I need to eat more fruit.
It's berry delicious. :rolling:

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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by Danny »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:58 am Totally ignorant here. It would seem to me that meat eating and alcohol consumption are important ritual acts because it's breaking taboos. That would suggest the norm is to be veg and dry. Am I missing something?
Yeah, even lower tantra systems are in line with sutra style understanding. It’s actually a fault of higher or inner tantras to disparage sutra teachings and understanding. Most “lofty” practitioners get lost in that....or unaware that is not their concern.
That’s the qualifications of ideas or attitudes of people, not the teachings.
In general what the Karmapa is saying is in line and not out of the ordinary. It is inline with nirmanakaya Buddha’s material teachings of cause and effect, no problem, no greater teacher than that. What the blogger is interpreting is another thing.

That’s a whole topic for another day.
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

A person can really only be a vegetarian or meat eater when they are eating.
Anything else constitutes a grasping to self-identity in the abstract sense. A label.

That identity can only be established in either one of two ways.
It is a conditionally arising construct, and in that case it cannot occur as an issue of food consumption when one is not consuming food.
Or, such an identity must depend on the existence of a continuous self, which a concept which Buddhism rejects.

When you are not eating, you are neither a meat-eater nor a non-meat eater. You aren’t any kind of an eater, because you aren’t eating anything.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by Budai »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:20 am A person can really only be a vegetarian or meat eater when they are eating.
Anything else constitutes a grasping to self-identity in the abstract sense. A label.

That identity can only be established in either one of two ways.
It is a conditionally arising construct, and in that case it cannot occur as an issue of food consumption when one is not consuming food.
Or, such an identity must depend on the existence of a continuous self, which a concept which Buddhism rejects.

When you are not eating, you are neither a meat-eater nor a non-meat eater. You aren’t any kind of an eater, because you aren’t eating anything.
But is anyone ever really vegetarian then? They are not vegetarians, that is why they are called vegetarian. See: The Diamond Sutra :smile: .

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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by Giovanni »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:20 am A person can really only be a vegetarian or meat eater when they are eating.
Anything else constitutes a grasping to self-identity in the abstract sense. A label.

That identity can only be established in either one of two ways.
It is a conditionally arising construct, and in that case it cannot occur as an issue of food consumption when one is not consuming food.
Or, such an identity must depend on the existence of a continuous self, which a concept which Buddhism rejects.

When you are not eating, you are neither a meat-eater nor a non-meat eater. You aren’t any kind of an eater, because you aren’t eating anything.
This is an essential point that cuts to the heart of issue.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Könchok Chödrak wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:47 amBut is anyone ever really vegetarian then? They are not vegetarians, that is why they are called vegetarian. See: The Diamond Sutra
Diamond Sutra is exactly it!
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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