Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

YesheDronmar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by YesheDronmar »

Many thanks everyone for this most interesting discussion.

I'm still wondering if anyone has a link or a source for the Hevajra sadhana linked to this empowerment?

Thanks.
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AmidaB
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by AmidaB »

YesheDronmar wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:05 am Many thanks everyone for this most interesting discussion.

I'm still wondering if anyone has a link or a source for the Hevajra sadhana linked to this empowerment?

Thanks.
Thashi delek to you all!
It will be a truly wonderful occasion indeed. Furthermore, I also would like to know that is there a sadhana?

Many thanks.
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conebeckham
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by conebeckham »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:42 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:22 am
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:17 am
When HHK came to the women's retreat he gave them a list of things to study. One was the Hevajra Tantra, which supposedly Elizabeth Callahan was working on. However I just checked the Tsadra Foundation blurb on Callahan and there's no mention of it being in the works.

So maybe it isn't true.
I’ll ask her. I see her a couple of times a month via zoom. She’s a very nice person.
Yeah, I found it. It was from the notes that came out of the last retreat, so these notes are from a couple of years ago. From those notes, the 3 books on tantra recommended as background info were:

1. Hevajra 2 books (tak nyi): tablam (generation stage). Tsadra Foundation has sponsored Hevajra translation by Elizabeth Callahan.
2. Profound inner meaning: (completion stage) for Naro Chödrak.
3. Gyu Lama (s/a Uttaratantrashastra): (Mahamudra) use JKLT’s commentary for tantric point of view.

I believe the list originally came from HHK.
*****
So Malcolm, once you talk to E.C. and get an update let me know if it’s happening or not. If not then I’ll get one of the other translations.

Also, any knowledge about a translation for book #2?

Thanks.
The Zabmo Nangdon has been translated. #2 on your list--it is called the Profound Inner Principles and it is not merely a commentary on Naro Chudruk, but a sort of manual of subtle body mapping, astrology, and the inner and outer relationships stressed in Kalacakra Tantra as well as other tantras.

Gyu Lama's commentary by Kongtrul is also translated. As for Hevajra, Karmapa specifically recommended the Kongtrul commentary, which I am not sure is being translated at the moment.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Cinnabar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Cinnabar »

A sadhana of the Coemergent Hevajra by Rigdzen Chokyi Dragpa is translated.
YesheDronmar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by YesheDronmar »

Cinnabar wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:43 pm A sadhana of the Coemergent Hevajra by Rigdzen Chokyi Dragpa is translated.
Thank you. Just the hint I needed ....
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Cinnabar »

Eric Fry-Miller translated it. You can find him online. He has a thing called Buddha Visions.

It’s a nice sadhana.
YesheDronmar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by YesheDronmar »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:04 am Eric Fry-Miller translated it. You can find him online. He has a thing called Buddha Visions.

It’s a nice sadhana.
Thank you, Cinnabar. I found the website using the title and author you provided.
Kris
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Kris »

This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
YesheDronmar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by YesheDronmar »

Sennin wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 am This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
I didn't receive it just curious.
The 9-Deity mandala was not mentioned, as least not that I remember. The image of the deity that was put up on the screen several times matches the image on the Buddhist Visions Coemergent Sadhana.

Two mantras were given during the empowerment and I'll check those with Buddhist Visions to make sure.
Kris
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Kris »

YesheDronmar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:20 am
Sennin wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 am This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
I didn't receive it just curious.
The 9-Deity mandala was not mentioned, as least not that I remember. The image of the deity that was put up on the screen several times matches the image on the Buddhist Visions Coemergent Sadhana.

Two mantras were given during the empowerment and I'll check those with Buddhist Visions to make sure.
Ah, I see. Maybe the Father and Mother mantras(?) I'm unfamiliar with Hevajra as practiced in Kagyu.

Sarva Mangalam
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Cone wrote:As for Hevajra, Karmapa specifically recommended the Kongtrul commentary, which I am not sure is being translated at the moment.
This was all discussed by HHK while he was in the women’s retreat. I wasn’t there, and didn’t hear about it until a good while after they came out of retreat. So my information is second hand and slightly stale.

But my understanding is that HHK wanted people better educated before going into retreat. Those 3 texts were the suggestions for studying Tantra before retreat. At least that’s my understanding. Could be off.

He had some Sutrayana recommendations too, like Shantideva’s 9th chapter, etc. It wasn’t all Tantricly oriented. But it definitely not the old Kagyu, “You don’t need to do any studying. Just do the practices, get realization, and then you’ll be able to write that kind of text.” (Maybe his exposure to Gelug approach is showing.)

But like I said, I wasn’t there, and these notes seem a little off.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Cinnabar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Cinnabar »

Sennin wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 am This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.
Malcolm
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Malcolm »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:05 pm
Sennin wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 am This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.
"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.
Cinnabar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Cinnabar »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:09 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:05 pm
Sennin wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 am This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?
It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.
"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.
That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.
Malcolm
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Malcolm »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:09 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:05 pm

It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.
"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.
That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.
Yes, they do, but they miss the meaning. Lhan cig skyes is just a translation of sahaja, and sahaja, in this context, does not mean connate, it means simply "natural" in contrast with the three faced, six arm form, or the eight faced, sixteen arm form, etc.
Cinnabar
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Cinnabar »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:27 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:09 pm

"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.
That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.
Yes, they do, but they miss the meaning. Lhan cig skyes is just a translation of sahaja, and sahaja, in this context, does not mean connate, it means simply "natural" in contrast with the three faced, six arm form, or the eight faced, sixteen arm form, etc.
In some sense, isn’t “natural” symbolic of “connote”?
Malcolm
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Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa

Post by Malcolm »

Cinnabar wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 am
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:27 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm

That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.
Yes, they do, but they miss the meaning. Lhan cig skyes is just a translation of sahaja, and sahaja, in this context, does not mean connate, it means simply "natural" in contrast with the three faced, six arm form, or the eight faced, sixteen arm form, etc.
In some sense, isn’t “natural” symbolic of “connote”?
In this case it just means a deity that is one face two arms, like a natural human, it doesn’t mean anything more than that.
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